Why the 370Z cannot compete in the US...

[RicerX]

http://www.torquenews.com/106/three-sim ... compete-us

3. Pricing – The 2013 Nissan 370Z is available in five different configurations as a coupe with the price ranging from $33,120 to $43,020 along with three configurations as a roadster with the price of the droptop ranging from $41,470 to $47,000. Compare those prices to those of the current Ford Mustang (not including the high performance Shelby GT500) with the Mustang coupe prices ranging from $22,200 to $34,750 and the Mustang convertible ranging from $27,200 to $39,750. If you configure a base model 370Z coupe with a manual transmission and the destination fee you have an MSRP $33,910. That is only $1,635 less than the 2014 Ford Mustang GT Premium which has far more content inside (leather, gadgets, etc) along with a great deal more power from the Mustang’s 5.0L V8 while also being more than $10,000 more than the entry level V6 Mustang coupe. Worse yet, if you configure a 370Z Nismo coupe with the Bose sound system, the MSRP of $45,160 is only $710 less than the 470 horsepower Dodge Challenger SRT8 392.

Some Nissan 370Z enthusiasts will be quick to point out that the 370Z suffers in sales due to a lack of a proper V8 (a point which we will address on its own below) but even if you compare the 370Z to another Japanese sports car that doesn’t have a V8, the Z still struggles to compare. The Scion FR-S moved 11,147 units in the US last year in its first year of production and while the performance measures are vastly higher for the 370Z, the least expensive 370Z starts almost $8,700 more than the Scion. Also, there is the Hyundai Genesis Coupe that starts at about $5,000 less than the 370Z even though it offers similar performance with 348 horsepower.

Nissan issued a significant price cut for their all electric Leaf to help it compete with the new entries in the segment and the company would be well advised to do the same thing with their 370Z.

2. A tiny interior with no rear seat – Let’s be real honest here…the back seats of the Ford Mustang and Scion FR-S are barely big enough to comfortably fit an average adult but in the long run, those cars do have the option to squeeze in two extra passengers. On the other hand, the Nissan 370Z doesn’t have a back seat in coupe or convertible form. This means that there is no option to squeeze in a couple extra adults nor is there room for a small family to seat a kid or two in the back. However, a buyer of the Ford Mustang, Scion FR-S, Dodge Challenger or Chevrolet Camaro has a back seat that can comfortably accommodate two children or two shorter adults. This alienates a great many prospective buyers who might not ever use the back seat for passengers but with those other models, those owners have the option to bring some friends on a ride or – more importantly – those models give younger families a chance to take their little ones on a cruise through the country. Beyond passenger space, the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, the Genesis Coupe and FR-S all have easy access cargo space in the back seat while Z owners will need to put their stuff in the trunk. You can throw a backpack or camera case in the back seat of most rear drive performance models and get right to that parcel from the front seat without any issue but 370Z owners lose that ease of loading small cargo.

Considering that every other car in the segment has a back seat, the Nissan 370Z is at a tough disadvantage to the competition and this problem is compounded by the fact that a back seat isn’t something that you can just dial up. The company can lower the price or add more power but it is much more difficult to add a back seat – or a cargo area that is more readily accessible from the driver’s seat.

1.Lack of performance – When the Nissan 350Z was introduced for the 2003 model year, the 287 horsepower offered by the 3.5L V6 was about 10% higher than the 2003 Ford Mustang GT. From 2004-2009, Nissan gradually increased the output of the 350Z up to 306 horsepower so the Z car remained very close to the Mustang in terms of power output that had just 300hp in 2009. Nissan jumped out away from the Mustang a bit for the 2009 model year when the new 3.7L V6 was introduced with 332hp while the Nismo 370Z packed 350hp so the high price was justified by offering more power than the Mustang GT. However, when the 2011 Ford Mustang debuted with the new 412 horsepower V8, later increasing the output to 420hp – the Mustang left the 370Z in the dust. Even though the Dodge Challenger and Chevrolet Camaro were not available when the 350Z was introduced in the US, those models eventually came into the picture and, like the Mustang, the new Camaro and Challenger offered considerably more power than the 350Z and 370Z. More importantly, the Nissan 370Z costs more than the majority of the available trimlines for the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger while offering quite a bit lower performance. Complicating the problem is the Hyundai Genesis Coupe which offers a naturally aspirated V6 with 348 horsepower which is also quite a bit less expensive. The Genesis Coupe doesn’t compete with the other rear wheel drive performance models in sales but it further deepens the talent pool in the segment.

The good news for the Nissan 370Z is that adding power should be the simplest problem to solve but you have to wonder just how much more Nissan can squeeze out of their powerful VQ Series V6 engine lineup. At this point, you would think that Nissan would either go to a force induction V6 that offers somewhere in the area of 400 horsepower or they could opt for a new V8 that would once again give the Z car a power advantage over the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger. Unfortunately, considering the level of performance among the “standard” V8 American muscle cars including 426hp in the Camaro SS, 420hp in the Mustang GT and 372hp in the Challenger R/T (which is priced similarly to the base model 370Z Coupe), it could be tough for Nissan to offer enough power to compete with the American muscle cars without further increasing the price.

The Nissan 370Z was introduced for 2009 so the current iteration is coming up on 4 years old…leading us to believe that there could be a new Z car in the pipeline. Unfortunately for Nissan, the high performance American muscle cars and the Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ have made the “affordable” rear wheel drive performance car segment much tighter than it was when the modern Z was introduced for 2003. Nissan could fix two of these problems by fitting in even a tiny rear seating area and packing in an extra hundred horsepower but the company will still have to face a massive price differential between itself and every other car in the segment.

What do you guys think? How much of this holds water and how much is irrelevant?

[frapjap]

You could argue for and against the Z. Historically it would compete against the Toyota, Mazda, and Honda sporty coupes of the time, but with so few of them left in the segment (few of which are RWD, most are AWD), the Z is left to compete against the class of cars that are wildly successful in the American market- Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, WRX, Evo. The Hyundai Genesis only competes because, as the article pointed out, they added a potent power plant. BRZ and FR-S are in their own little world with little competition aside from maaaaaybe the MX5. The RX-8 went the way of the buffalo- for loads of reasons, I'm sure- but one of them is that the bang for the buck wasn't the same in most consumers eyes who wanted power and room for some family/friends during the timeframe that it was sold. I'd argue that the RX8 would be more successful now than it was previously.

My point to all this is that the Z is in a class of its own- and not in a good way. Prospective Corvette owners will take a look at it briefly and then take a look at their wallets and see value in the Vette. 2 door, 4 seater buyers are more inclined to grab a domestic muscle car. Less spindly consumers will snag a BRZ, FR-S, or MX5.

Heres how I see the playing field of competitors in their market classes (not competition racing classes) for similar costs
Class 1.
Camaro
Mustang
Genesis
Charger
Challenger

Class 2.
BRZ
FR-S
Miata
Veloster turbo
GTI
Mini Cooper

Class 3.
370Z
R32 (this is a stretch, but cost and use of the vehicle is similar)
BMW 1 series

Class 4.
Boxter
Cayman
911
Corvette
Audi variants
Mercedes variants
BMW variants

Class 3 is very small and some of the starting prices in Class 4 cost only slighty more, or in some cases, slightly less for a superior vehicle.

[Kompresshun]

I think what it comes down to is that it's obvious the Z needs a refresh and a budget minded one, if Nissan isn't going to produce something else to more widely compete with competitors.

I think a number of things need to happen before it could be a truly successful vehicle again. First and foremost, you don't absolutely need to have it come standard with a back seat, but it should be an option. Before the Z33 there was a 2+2 option in every single generation, so why not now?

Secondly, offer more powerplant options. Build a more economical engine that produces 250-300hp for the budget minded buyers, then offer a Twin Turbo option for people that want some real power.

I could go on for hours, but honestly it's a waste of time. The next Z will likely be fitting with a QR25 backed by a CVT anyways. Even if it doesn't, it'll end up being ridiculously overpriced and still won't get the job done. I've always loved the Z's, but in this market, it's extremely easy to overlook when you see what else you can spend your money on.

[RicerX]

First off, the article's problems:

1) Author thinks Hyundai is Japanese, and that 16hp easily makes up for 144 lbs in weight.
2) Author thinks horsepower is the only way to measure the performance of a sports car.
3) Author thinks a prospective 370Z buyer will opt for a BRZ because of a back seat.

The author only has an article title. And sales numbers. But the rest of it is pretty much garbage.

The backseat argument is weak. How many sports cars out there don't have a back seat? Miata, Cayman, Corvette, Z, Camaro Z28, Mustang Boss 302, BMW Z4, Honda S2000, etc. I agree the option is nice, but if the lack of availability of a back seat turns you away from any of these cars, then a sports car isn't what you are in the market for in the first place. On top of that, he adds that it has a tiny interior. Seating space in a Z (for the driver - the important part) is larger than that of an FRS. He conveniently leaves the Miata out of that argument.

The fixation on horsepower really makes me think the author has only ever driven a "sports" car on a dragstrip. Ever tried to sail a Challenger around a tight road course against a Z? I would imagine the extra 1000 pounds doesn't help much. It really doesn't matter that the Challenger has 460hp compared to the Z's 332 in this context. Stupid argument. If you like the sound of a V8, excellent. The Z hasn't been in your pool of consideration for the last 43 years.

The car is priced a bit high to make it truly competitive in today's market, and that's not because it's not a great performer for the dollar. The 370Z can hang with a Cayman around a track, and that car is $15k more in price. Unfortunately these days, car buyers don't see the value in that comparison. Bang for the buck thrill for simpler-minded drivers goes to the big three - Camaro, Challenger, Mustang. They perform great and the put your head back in the seat and Americans are typically built a little bigger on average so a big muscle car is just... easier. I get it.

Stupid articles like this aren't going to make the Z a better car, IMHO. Stupid articles like this are written by stupid journalists who have a very vague knowledge of the s*** they're writing about. This article is a lazy a** interpretation of sales numbers written by a dude that drives a Corolla XRS on an autocross course and considers himself a sports car aficionado. Hopefully there aren't too many people like him influencing the product planners at Nissan for the next gen Z.

[Jesda]

The market for the Z is drying up. The next Camaro is moving to GM's much lighter Alpha platform. The Mustang is going on a diet to help improve sales in the EU and China.

What this means is that what little sales are left for the Nissan Z will be disappearing entirely in just a couple years.

[float_6969]

Xenon, I think you nailed it. Much of what you spoke about were my first thoughts about the article. The guy NEVER compared handling and gave that ANY value in his comparison.

Unfortunately, Jesda is also right.

I find it a bit ironic that Nissan has kept the Z around in a failing market (and not doing much to make it compete) while they leave a growing market (small RWD coupes) with no competition.

Nissan NEEDS an S16 ASAP, and the Z needs redesigned to target the US muscle cars. And if they think the Z is supposed to be on a higher level than the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger (ie Vette, 911, etc), then it's gonna need way more power to compete.

[Bubba1]

The market for the Z is drying up. The next Camaro is moving to GM's much lighter Alpha platform. The Mustang is going on a diet to help improve sales in the EU and China.

What this means is that what little sales are left for the Nissan Z will be disappearing entirely in just a couple years.

A few thoughts.

I agree with Xenon that it was not a particularly good article, and the author appears a bit misguided as a sports car guy. But he does raise one good question about the 370Z and what Nissan should do with it.

I'm not sure its that the Z market is drying up, but it's certainly changing, which means Nissan will need to do something soon with the Z in order for it to remain relevant. Nissan can move the Z in a couple of directions. For example, the makers of the Camaro, Mustang, and the Z's old competitor (and soon to be reintroduced) Supra have clearly embraced the horsepower war by offering 500 hp models at reasonable prices. So if Nissan wants to be competitive with those cars, I think they need to upgrade. Perhaps the solution is to stuff the GT-R motor into the Z without all the technological terror silliness, keep it RWD, and make it a real drivers car with a 3rd pedal, plus keep it cheap. Then what should Nissan do with the stale but potent GT-R? After 8 yrs of no real changes, put some freakin' money into the dang thing! Develop it as the next level near-supercar and pump up the power 'cause it's competition is well over 600 hp.

Another direction the market is moving toward is the segment long occupied by the Miata. Toyota, Subie, and Hyundai are all finding success with a well equipped sub $30K sports car. If Nissan wants to chase that market segment, they might consider either reviving the S-chassis and make a new inexpensive RWD sports car (without a friggin' CVT) OR simply reduce the price of the current 370Z to under $30K. Since Nissan has spent relatively little developing the 370Z since it was introduced over 6 years ago, well, aside from slapping on cheapie stickers/tacky deck lid spoiler, calling it "NISMO" and upping the MSRP, there now should be plenty of room to drop that MSRP to be more than competitive with the sub $30K crowd without spending any development money.


FWIW, with the back seat argument. Nissan did offer a 4 seat version of the Z. it's called the Infiniti G coupe. And if they ever put a CVT in the Z, Nissan management should be fired immediately.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Here's the real problem:

The Z has become a GT. GTs are supposed to be POWERFUL, comfortable, and still fairly good handling-wise. The Z really IS NOT very powerful anymore. The VQ37VHR makes 330hp and 270 ft-lb. That was impressive in 2007. That was FIVE YEARS AGO. There are generic family sedans encroaching on that territory today. Hell, even Camrys make 290hp and 270 ft-lb, and the Camry's torque curve puts the Z's to shame!

So the Z needs to decide. Is it a GT? Or is it a Japanese sports car? Because right now it's not really doing either. It either needs A LOT more power (we're talking 400+) or it needs A LOT less weight (at which point it can also afford to be less worried about power).

I think I'd rather see the Z shed 1,000lb and drop 50-100 hp. It'd be a much more interesting car that would have a broader appeal. I love GTs...the problem is they're pricey. And the ZXs showed us that pricey isn't really the right way to go for the Z.

The real problem for the Z is that it's trying to be a one-trick pony. I discussed this in my other post about how the new Alpha-based Camaro is a HUGE threat to the Z. The Z offers ONE powerplant. Its competition spans a HUGE gamut that offers everything from n/a fours to supercharged eights. The Z needs to pick a fight. It either needs to be light, affordable, and practical...or it needs to be powerful, comfortable, and refined. It cannot do both. It can't fight BRZs and turbo-four Mustangs at the same time it's chasing 450hp Camaros and Porsche Caymans.

A lighter Z could still make use of a six in ultra-hot models, but offer N/A and turbo fours in the bulk of its trims. It would also be able to sell for much less than the $36-45k pricing it currently commands.

Z needs to sell for right around ~$30k. Any higher a starting price than that and it has ALREADY lost the war. Once upon a time, V6 Camaros and Mustangs were a laughingstock. Powered by truck motors and with crappy suspension, they were only good for getting attention. Now, not only are the V6 models outstanding, but the four cylinder models offer a serious threat of being genuinely GOOD SPORTS CARS. If you can buy a serious sports car from GM or Ford for $28k...why on earth would you buy a confused fatass from Nissan for $36k?

The Z is screwed unless it can figure out what it wants to be.

My other post on the matter:
this-just-in-car-driver-says-we-will-ha ... 75255.html

[Jesda]

^^ I agree with the post above. ^^

[IBCoupe]

Is the turbo-four Mustang MoD is talking about the same I had in my rental Fusion a few weeks ago? 'Cause I could live with that, especially if the car got less bulky, to boot.

[nissangirl74]

Another reason that Nissan is having a problem with the Z is that they're having a hard time, in general, enticing people to come on the lot to look at other cars. If your wife wants a sedan without a CVT, she's not going to a Nissan dealership. Therefore, you won't have the opportunity to window shop the Z while she's buying a new family car. Same thing goes for your teenage son. Do you really think he's going to be shopping a Versa, or a Juke, or a Cube? No, he's gonna want to go to the Subaru or Toyota dealer. Another lost opportunity. Unless you are specifically going to look at a Z, why else would you stop?

As far as the lack of a back seat is concerned, most true Z lovers from the earlier eras hated the 2+2s. Purists and repeat buyers don't care that there isn't a back seat. It wasn't a grocery getter or a minivan. The Z had a purpose. It was a fast, inexpensive sports car. The only thing it was meant to haul was a$$.

[IBCoupe]

As far as the lack of a back seat is concerned, most true Z lovers from the earlier eras hated the 2+2s. Purists and repeat buyers don't care that there isn't a back seat. It wasn't a grocery getter or a minivan. The Z had a purpose. It was a fast, inexpensive sports car. The only thing it was meant to haul was a$$.

I'm well aware of this, but there's a reason why folks in every group have to struggle between being a purist and being viable. That's just the way of the world: there aren't enough purists to support... anything. Because there'll always be that guy who's that much purer than the rest. I imagine hearing someone moan about how these aren't real Z's because they don't have I6's.

[nissangirl74]

there aren't enough purists to support... anything

I disagree. In all seriousness, how many prospective buyers do you think lament the fact that there isn't a backseat? A backseat in a coupe is not a NEED. Don't believe me? ask a Corvette owner

[AZhitman]

FWIW, with the back seat argument. Nissan did offer a 4 seat version of the Z. it's called the Infiniti G coupe.

The distance between the back of the front seat and the front of the rear seat is 3" if the driver is 5'10". A cursory "seat" if you can call it that. No one's sitting back there. Ever.

[AZhitman]

Here's the real problem:

The Z has become a GT. GTs are supposed to be POWERFUL, comfortable, and still fairly good handling-wise. The Z really IS NOT very powerful anymore. The VQ37VHR makes 330hp and 270 ft-lb. That was impressive in 2007. That was FIVE YEARS AGO. There are generic family sedans encroaching on that territory today. Hell, even Camrys make 290hp and 270 ft-lb, and the Camry's torque curve puts the Z's to shame!

So the Z needs to decide. Is it a GT? Or is it a Japanese sports car? Because right now it's not really doing either. It either needs A LOT more power (we're talking 400+) or it needs A LOT less weight (at which point it can also afford to be less worried about power).

I think I'd rather see the Z shed 1,000lb and drop 50-100 hp. It'd be a much more interesting car that would have a broader appeal. I love GTs...the problem is they're pricey. And the ZXs showed us that pricey isn't really the right way to go for the Z.

The real problem for the Z is that it's trying to be a one-trick pony. I discussed this in my other post about how the new Alpha-based Camaro is a HUGE threat to the Z. The Z offers ONE powerplant. Its competition spans a HUGE gamut that offers everything from n/a fours to supercharged eights. The Z needs to pick a fight. It either needs to be light, affordable, and practical...or it needs to be powerful, comfortable, and refined. It cannot do both. It can't fight BRZs and turbo-four Mustangs at the same time it's chasing 450hp Camaros and Porsche Caymans.

A lighter Z could still make use of a six in ultra-hot models, but offer N/A and turbo fours in the bulk of its trims. It would also be able to sell for much less than the $36-45k pricing it currently commands.

Z needs to sell for right around ~$30k. Any higher a starting price than that and it has ALREADY lost the war. Once upon a time, V6 Camaros and Mustangs were a laughingstock. Powered by truck motors and with crappy suspension, they were only good for getting attention. Now, not only are the V6 models outstanding, but the four cylinder models offer a serious threat of being genuinely GOOD SPORTS CARS. If you can buy a serious sports car from GM or Ford for $28k...why on earth would you buy a confused fatass from Nissan for $36k?

The Z is screwed unless it can figure out what it wants to be.

/thread.

Or, if you want to really put the nail in the coffin: I can buy a new 370Z tomorrow at VPP pricing, and get all manner of hookups for parts, service and mods. Guess what's NOT in my driveway?

I don't want a GT (I had a proper GT for years). I want a sports car. Small. Light. Nimble. Fast. The Z isn't even on my radar.

[Bubba1]

/thread.

Or, if you want to really put the nail in the coffin: I can buy a new 370Z tomorrow at VPP pricing, and get all manner of hookups for parts, service and mods. Guess what's NOT in my driveway?

I don't want a GT (I had a proper GT for years). I want a sports car. Small. Light. Nimble. Fast. The Z isn't even on my radar.

That's shame, a the 370Z is a delightful sports car. Put on a helmet, turn the key, turn off the nannies, have fun.

Bex asked me a great question at Carlisle that I'll ask you. "what would you buy for a NEW sports car for under $50K?" That eliminates a Corvette, Laguna Sega Mustang, or pretty anything made by Porsche or BMW and anything used. Also eliminated is buying something cheap and modding the cr@p out of it up to $50K.

I'd still probably buy a 370Z. It's very good right off the dealer's lot. If C&D is right and Nissan is going to try to market it as a V6 competitor to a BRZ, then I think they need to drop the base sticker even more than what was suggested. The main problem is it's priced a tad too high for what it is. I agree with MoD, make it a $30K sports car instead of $35-40K they'd sell a ton of them.

[themadscientist]

Put a blower on it then call me.

[IBCoupe]

I'd still probably buy a 370Z. It's very good right off the dealer's lot. If C&D is right and Nissan is going to try to market it as a V6 competitor to a BRZ, then I think they need to drop the base sticker even more than what was suggested. The main problem is it's priced a tad too high for what it is. I agree with MoD, make it a $30K sports car instead of $35-40K they'd sell a ton of them.

A $30,000 Z would be much more appealing. On a personal level, that means to import it to China, an expat has to pay just shy of $50,000 (price of car included), which is less than $5,000 north of what you'd pay to import a new BRZ, or buy one domestically. While the $5,000 leap from $25,000 to $30,000 seems significant, it is less so from $45,000 to $50,000. The current 370Z can be had from a Chinese dealer for the equivalent of just shy of $109,000.

[themadscientist]

They sure got the hang of capitalism.

[AZhitman]

That's shame, a the 370Z is a delightful sports car. Put on a helmet, turn the key, turn off the nannies, have fun.

Well aware - Remember, I spent 2 days in the pre-production 370. Love the car, but I hate that they haven't seen fit to update it (beyond a fascia change) or address the common complaints. Nissan gets zero points for responsiveness. The gripes are legit, and they could be easily addressed. It's more of that "We know what's best for you" crap from Ghosn and Co.

It's also not worth ~$40k.

"what would you buy for a NEW sports car for under $50K?"

The problem is this: There's not a lot of sports cars between $30K and $50K. For less than $30K, you can get an FR-S or BRZ, Mustang, Genesis Coupe, Miata, or a VW GTI, but you're leaving $20K in money, performance and quality on the table.

911, Boxster, 'vette all exceed your $50k ceiling.

The 370 rings in at $43k (if you order the NISMO variant).

There's the Challenger SRT-8 to consider, and the new WRX STI, and it looks like you could squeeze in a Boss 302 and possibly even a GT500 for under $50k. I wouldn't even consider a Camaro. You know how I hate cars that have a rental-lot equivalent.

As much as it pains me to say it, a NISMO 370 would be my likely choice.

[flohtingPoint]

there aren't enough purists to support... anything

I disagree. In all seriousness, how many prospective buyers do you think lament the fact that there isn't a backseat? A backseat in a coupe is not a NEED. Don't believe me? ask a Corvette owner

No back seat needed

[AZhitman]

A true sports car has no back seat.

INB4M3WHINING

[Kompresshun]

A true sports car has no back seat.

INB4M3WHINING

Ahem.

[MinisterofDOOM]

A true sports car has no back seat.

INB4M3WHINING

Ahem.

The 911 should never be used as an example for a "true" ANYTHING. It's the world's best example of stubborn-a**, backward, nonsense, batsh#t, "we do it this way because we CAN DAMMIT" German engineering. It's WRONG in so many ways, but it's wrong honed to perfection. There's a reason no one else makes a rear-engine flat-6 four-seat sports car. It makes no @#$% sense. But thoes crazy-a** Germans do WTF they want and make it work because they can.

[Kompresshun]

That car is the most fantastic vehicle i've gotten behind the wheel of to date. It may be back-a** ward, but I would enjoy the hell out of owning one.

Of course i'd also enjoy a whole handful of other cars a lot better too. Corvette isn't on my radar though, sorry. I love them, but I could never bring myself to owning one unless it was a 63-67 Coupe. They're fantastic cars and are an awesome package all around, but they're not my cup of tea.

[ScrapMetal]

The Nissan Z priced itself out case closed.

That was all fine and dandy back when the 350Z was still being sold. Yea, it was always more expensive than the competition but it was a better sports car than what the competition had to offer back then. Ford was still using it's trusty but low on power 4.6L V8, the Camaro didn't exist nor the Challenger or Hyundai's Genesis Coupe(I'm not even gonna count the FRS/BRZ car, that thing is slow and cheap feelin for $25 grand).

Nissan was focusing it's R&D on electric crap and CVT trash, and let's not forget it's bread and butter Pathfinder and Altima(which are great cars BTW, let's be honest). Nissan was focused on other endeavors and sadly the Z lagged behind, all the while Ford, Dodge and Chevy raced ahead.

I used to be a Nissan fan but nowadays I'm a fan of value for money and the Z is not value for money... anymore.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

According to chevy.com, you can get a brand new corvette for $49,600... so yeah, that would be my choice.

[IBCoupe]

They sure got the hang of capitalism.

Nah. The price bump is taxes tariff, VAT, and consumption tax. Take whatever car's duty price and multiply it by about 1.66. If there's one thing I learned in America, it's that taxes = soshulizm.

[flohtingPoint]

A true sports car has no back seat.

INB4M3WHINING

Quite true. If it has a back seat, its not a sports car, just a sporty coupe/sedan

[AZhitman]

According to chevy.com, you can get a brand new corvette for $49,600... so yeah, that would be my choice.

In that case, done.

Why anyone would drop $50k on ANYTHING else is beyond me. And that's a C7. Sweet.

BTW, have fun getting anything bigger than a pair of driving gloves into that Porsche back seat. Just because something has an upholstered shelf for insurance purposes doesn't mean it's functional.