Why so inefficient?

[PoorManQ45]

Hence, no hybrids in the USA.
I thought we went through this?

I think you're messing with me at this point.

It is fun though...

[Razi]

No, I'm agreeing with you for once.

Anyways yeah, Americans looove dropping that cash at every fill-up.

[PoorManQ45]

I do find it interesting that many americans openly complain about gas prices, but still get into their Gas Guzzling SUV.

What I really dislike is seeing so many large vehicles, mostly SUVs, in rush hour traffic that have only one person in them! WTF do they need that vehicle for!

[Razi]

You're slow.

If a company came out with a 80mpg car, it'd sell.
Nobody likes paying so much for gas, that's why cars with good mpg are selling better than similar cars with worse mpg.

Also, my dad hauls a lot of crap, hobby or job related. And actually, the Pathfinder is the car with the best MPG in our garage right now, the 240sx might be close.
You should be complaining about Q45s stuck in traffic.

[PoorManQ45]

You're slow.

If a company came out with a 80mpg car, it'd sell.
Nobody likes paying so much for gas, that's why cars with good mpg are selling better than similar cars with worse mpg.

I'm not sure that it would. Atleast at first it would probably be in the $30k range for no other reason then its uniqueness.

Honestly, around here there are a large number of camry and corolla based cars mixed in with a larger amount of SUVs.

I do agree with what you're saying though. The trucks and SUVs can have their place, but the majority of people buy them because they want that big vehicle.

Just look at the thread that was in General Chat a week ago with a guy having to buy and SUV for his wife because they were having one kid...

[Razi]

It might be overkill for one kid, but a lot of stuff follows.
Including a second child, hauling random stuff that he might want, etc...

But if you look at it from a strictly-for-a-child, stand point, yeah SUVs are overkill.
But people have other things in life that might require one.

We've moved my sister into her dorm room, built a patio, hauled an engine, gone to the mountain, and more in our Pathfinder.

[PoorManQ45]

We've moved my sister into her dorm room, built a patio, hauled an engine, gone to the mountain, and more in our Pathfinder.

Good to hear you guys are among the few that use a vehicle for its intended purpose.

I'm chuckling a little as we have also done all those things you mentioned, but in a 1995 Dodge Caravan with the DSM 3.0 in it. We still have it, and it's used for a work vehicle.

[Razi]

Yeah, some people just use the SUV to haul their kids around, nothing else.
But I can't tell that just by looking at the person, who the hell knows what they do with their cars at home, so I tend not to judge people because they're driving an SUV or a truck all by themselves.

[PoorManQ45]

I can understand that.

It's just really annoying to see hundreds(thousands?) of SUVs sitting at a dead stop in rush hour traffic with one person in them.

I mean, even if people carpooled and used that same SUV you'd be atleast twice as efficient!

[Razi]

Unfortunately, not everyone they know are going to the same destination.

[krash]

How do you see 1000 SUVs in traffic at once from the driver's seat of your car. PMQ is superman.

[Kompresshun]

Just look at the thread that was in General Chat a week ago with a guy having to buy and SUV for his wife because they were having one kid...

I still don't understand why you feel you know what kind of vehicle my family should drive better than myself, and that we aren't using it properly. Yes we own a gas guzzeling SUV, so what? We filled it with luggage yesterday afternoon and drove 4 hrs to Tennessee in it with 4 people and our 8 month old child. When we are at home, we both have short commutes and my wife works 3 days a week so she usually drives the commander most of the time since she usually stays home when she's not working. I chose to buy another SUV because it fit our needs and I've already put it to use multiple times since we bought it.

Yes I will agree that not everyone needs an SUV, although I refuse to drive a underpowered crap box to save a few bucks on gas. The economy vehicles have their place as well, I plan on buying a 4 cyl sedan when its time to replace the I30 but that's still a while away.

[TOMMY VERCETTI]

Diesel cars $uck!! End of story.

[PoorManQ45]

Diesel cars $uck!! End of story.

Please provide some information behind that.

I still don't understand why you feel you know what kind of vehicle my family should drive better than myself, and that we aren't using it properly. Yes we own a gas guzzeling SUV, so what? We filled it with luggage yesterday afternoon and drove 4 hrs to Tennessee in it with 4 people and our 8 month old child. When we are at home, we both have short commutes and my wife works 3 days a week so she usually drives the commander most of the time since she usually stays home when she's not working. I chose to buy another SUV because it fit our needs and I've already put it to use multiple times since we bought it.

We used to do the same thing in a Grand Marquis...

We are about to take a road trip from FL to NY with 4 adults and luggage in a 2009 Hyundai Elantra... with a 4 cylinder.

We used to take trips from FL to WI and back with 5 adults in a 1995 Dodge Caravan(not grand caravan!).

[wingFeather]

The Hyundai will probably get the same MPG as the minivan.

If efficiency were important for sales, car companies would be catering to it. Not just in America, but everywhere.

[IBCoupe]

PMQ, Europe has countries the size of some of our smaller States. Asia confines almost all of its automobile travel to cities. India has almost no safety standards.

All of these things are different from America. Might it be that the American consumer isn't so much different in their values from the rest of the world, but maybe a little bit different in their requirements?

I went out and specifically looked for a V6 Altima Coupe, and believe it or not, as fun as I thought it would be, that wasn't my driving factor. I wanted the additional power because I didn't want to be limited in the maneuvering I do in 90% of my daily travel - getting on, staying on, and getting off of highways. I had a 1997 Corolla prior to that; if I behaved, I got upwards of 40MPG. Do I miss that? Yes, but I'm not going to back to a weak-a** car because when I hit the gas, I need the car to be able to move.

Which brings us back to the "to get out of its own way" comment in the Aveo thread. Do we get it yet?

[PoorManQ45]

Yes, but I'm not going to back to a weak-a** car because when I hit the gas, I need the car to be able to move.

Which brings us back to the "to get out of its own way" comment in the Aveo thread. Do we get it yet?

So why not get an Early 90's mustang for less then your Altima with a 4.6 or even a 5.0 in it?

I mean, where are you drawing the line? If maybe you could provide a speed that you're cruising at, and then the desired speed that you'd like to reach in a given time period that would allow for a quantitative analysis of "get out of its own way".

Hell, the Altima is a slow turd too and is a rolling death trap on the highway because it doesn't have 500+HP to get out of the way with!

[IBCoupe]

Straw men aren't helping you.

[ricebike]

maintenance costs of those engines probably deter some potential customers; i've seen someone from another thread quoted a price that's 2-3 times the cost to change a timing belt, for example of diesel vs gas powered engines...

plus, a barrel of crude yields only 1/2 the amount of diesel than gasoline

http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/crude_products.aspx

this country runs on diesel powered truckers & if the demand increases even more by the common commuter, the diesel price would go even higher than that ultra-low sulfer diesel price they have now

what happened to waste veggie oil conversion kits? it used to be easy to get waste veggie oil for personal use, but now they're all taken by small businesses filtering it themselves or converting it into bio-diesel...

awhile back, i wanted to do this to a dodge/freightliner sprinter, but no available resources in my area for free waste veggie oil led me to just getting a nissan quest for my growing family

[AZhitman]

What I really dislike is seeing so many large vehicles, mostly SUVs, in rush hour traffic that have only one person in them! WTF do they need that vehicle for!

WTF do you need bigger speakers for? A faster computer? New clothes? Why do you need 3 meals a day? You don't NEED any of those things.

Get over yourself. This is America. We drive what the F we want.

[AZhitman]

So why not get an Early 90's mustang for less then your Altima with a 4.6 or even a 5.0 in it?

Because this is America. See my prior post.

Oh, and also because an early 90's Mustang is a colossal POS.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Heh, 85hp 2011 Aveo = 35mpg.
305hp 2010 mustang = 31mpg.
350hp 1997 C5 vette = 28mpg.

Inefficient? Quadrupling the HP decreases gas mileage by 20%

What we need are cars that aren't grossly underpowered, enabling them to just loaf along.

Ehhhh, in that situation it's all about the gearing.

Once that ls1 gets over 3K rpm, there ain't no bragging about gas mileage there.

[Red coupe]

Heh, 85hp 2011 Aveo = 35mpg.
305hp 2010 mustang = 31mpg.
350hp 1997 C5 vette = 28mpg.

Inefficient? Quadrupling the HP decreases gas mileage by 20%

What we need are cars that aren't grossly underpowered, enabling them to just loaf along.

Ehhhh, in that situation it's all about the gearing.

Once that ls1 gets over 3K rpm, there ain't no bragging about gas mileage there.

Yeah, but when you get the Aveo over 3k rpm... well not a damn thing happens.

At least you can chose to get keep the Vette under 3k if you want... If anything your really only pointing out that the vette can do it all, while the Aveo can only be slow.

The government should buy us all Corvettes to stimulate the economy and save the planet. I think I'll take mine in white... you don't see too many white vettes.

[AZhitman]

My first 3 tanks of gas with my c5 averaged 21 mpg.

Coincidentally, I also thoroughly burned off a fairly new set of Goodyear EMT runflats in those 3 tanks as well.

Running the 'vette hard doesn't hurt gas mileage too terribly. It DOES produce a lot of billowy white smoke, though.

[Oatmealman]

What I really dislike is seeing so many large vehicles, mostly SUVs, in rush hour traffic that have only one person in them! WTF do they need that vehicle for!

Get over yourself. This is America. We drive what the F we want.

Thank you greg while i do drive a pickup and don't haul stuff everyday today i actually transported about 10k worth of tools in the bed of my pick-up.I've hauled countless motor's for friends,I've pulled my jeep(Won't happen with the rockwells unfortunately) through mountain passes to go four wheeling.I love my big displacement v6's and v8's.Do they get horrible gas mileage? Hell yes but the jeep was built almost completely out of recycled parts and continues to be built out of old military parts(now). Most of the parts on my dime(other than brakes,and tires) came outta a junkyard.I'm doing the world a favor by recycling parts that still have a lot of life left in them instead of going and dropping a ton of cash for a part that some meth head sweat shop laborer made.


oh and i purposely let my truck idle for about 15 minutes on cold mornings,and i purposely run the jeep just a touch rich just to piss you off.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I'm a huge fan of diesel, there are so many power enhancers and fuel alternatives that a diesel vehicle with the right equipment would never have to worry about if there is a fuel source or not. Between, BioDiesel, CNG, and the other options that are being found you can power a diesel with a lot of different fuel sources, add in propane or Meth/Water injection or N2O and you will see an increase in mot only power but also fuel mileage. Plus a diesel engine will last 10x longer than the average gas engine will, in fact there are some diesels out there that have outlived the vehicles they were installed in. It's not uncommon to see diesel vehicles out there with 500K+ miles on them. Yeah there are some diesels out there that soot everytime you step on the pedal but those are either not taken care of or just have been modded to do that.

What if someone developed a TDI powered vehicle that also had hybrid technology, oh wait I'm sure that it's already been done. America as a whole is rather snobbish when it comes to diesels, which is a shame since the rest of the planet have embraced the diesel engine and are making leaps and bounds with its fuel economy. As far as a Jetta TDI being boring, you should have tapped into your modding nature and spent some money on making performance improvements, then it wouldn't have been so boring. There are some TDI's out there that are just as fast and exciting to drive as some of their gas powered alternatives.

[Kompresshun]

Oh, and also because an early 90's Mustang is a colossal POS.

Why you gotta hate on the Fox bodies man?

Now the 94-98 Mustangs were junk for sure, I wouldn't say that all the 87-93's were junk though. I had a 91 GT and a 91 LX 5.0 Coupe and loved both of them, you could run the hell out of them and still get 18mpg around town and 25mpg on the highway. I wouldn't mind having another 87-93 just for nostalgic reasons, but they're just not as visually appealing to me anymore since i've gotten older. It's hard to find one that doesn't look like a mullet mobile now and EVERYBODY drives a Mustang.

[Bubba1]

Oh, and also because an early 90's Mustang is a colossal POS.

Why you gotta hate on the Fox bodies man?

Now the 94-98 Mustangs were junk for sure, I wouldn't say that all the 87-93's were junk though. I had a 91 GT and a 91 LX 5.0 Coupe and loved both of them, you could run the hell out of them and still get 18mpg around town and 25mpg on the highway. I wouldn't mind having another 87-93 just for nostalgic reasons, but they're just not as visually appealing to me anymore since i've gotten older. It's hard to find one that doesn't look like a mullet mobile now and EVERYBODY drives a Mustang.

I'm not a Ford or Fox body fan, but I happen to like my neighbors 88 Fox body GT vert. I've been in it many times. It's a very clean unmolested stock garage queen. He regularly wins cruise night trophies. Of course it's got it's share of minor problems, some fit/finish issues and the brakes are awful (after all, it's an 80's Ford). But if you accept it for what it is (cheap sporty cruising convertible), and not a real sports car, it's really not bad.

[elwesso]

Honestly what makes the least amount of sense to me is buying a new car for the sole purpose of better fuel economy, especially if the car your getting rid of is fully paid for and is in decent running condition...

I could get rid of my Q, lets just assume that it would go to the scrapyard because no one buys those things anyway... Then it sits in the scrap yard for who knows how long, polluting that environment with its R134a, lead acid battery, and 10+ quarts of oil, and however many gallons of gasoline.. I then buy another car with likely higher insurance, a loan payment, and so forth.. So in the end, even if the new car I get gets 10MPG better, then I'm certainly not winning...

If people are so concerned about efficiency, why dont we just figure out a way to make our engines run hotter? Simple thermodyamics says that the thermal efficiency of an engine will increase by increasing the temperature its operated at...

[PoorManQ45]

What if someone developed a TDI powered vehicle that also had hybrid technology, oh wait I'm sure that it's already been done. America as a whole is rather snobbish when it comes to diesels, which is a shame since the rest of the planet have embraced the diesel engine and are making leaps and bounds with its fuel economy. As far as a Jetta TDI being boring, you should have tapped into your modding nature and spent some money on making performance improvements, then it wouldn't have been so boring. There are some TDI's out there that are just as fast and exciting to drive as some of their gas powered alternatives.

TDI Cup!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSLTPsZ3vWU[/youtube]

Honestly what makes the least amount of sense to me is buying a new car for the sole purpose of better fuel economy, especially if the car your getting rid of is fully paid for and is in decent running condition...

I can agree with that. I always advocate buying early to mid 90s high mileage vehicles. You can pick up the car for a couple bills.

oh and i purposely let my truck idle for about 15 minutes on cold mornings,and i purposely run the jeep just a touch rich just to piss you off.

Good for you, you like diluting your oil with fuel...

You are a person that uses their vehicle, nothing wrong with that. I never said there was.

WTF do you need bigger speakers for? A faster computer? New clothes? Why do you need 3 meals a day? You don't NEED any of those things.

Get over yourself. This is America. We drive what the F we want.

I am going to take a wild guess and say that you do very well in a corporate environment...