Why Nissan?? Why the 350z and not the s15 or Skyline??

[Hijacker]

Ok the 350Z and G35 are both great with loads of power but Nissan has watered down these two cars so much you dont even fell the power as you sit behind the wheel. And Nissan i have one question, "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE TURBO OR THE TWIN TURBO? And why doesnt the 350Z have the 4WD option like the old 300ZX?" Nissan is a great company but they are letting down the enthusiasts that support them through thick and thin. Why cant i go to the dealer and buy a 2000+ Nissan sports car for under 20,000? The sports cars are dying and being replaced with luxury sedans.

we won't see a TT version for a while because the VQ30DE is already pushing the power ceiling being imposed in japan

[SmithSR]

tenkawa_akito, Subaru modified the STi for the US market, giving us a unit that is more powerful that the Japanese sister car.

Nissan could follow suit. It wouldn't be cheap though. STi isn't cheap. Uh oh, the dreaded $30k mark! Again!

RX-8350ZG35STiEvo

hovering around $30k

Today's "performance" cars are selling at $30k, so don't expect a cheaper, better performing car, ever.

[Rex]

Cory - Just using MSRP's as a base for comparison, and I wasn't disagreeing with the speed offered by the Cobra. They are different cars, just as a Cobra isn't the same as a Z06.

Let me see if understand your point (in hopes to clear up), is there isn't a 2 dr RWD "affordable/entry level" coupe coming from Nissan. Is that about right?

I just don't know that the S15, if still available and imported would really offer that sub $20k car that the S14 was.

BTW - Cobra 4.6 Cobra R 5.4

[cory2081]

Rex, do you know what it looks like when you get beat by 1 second 0-60?? It isn't very pretty. Do you know what it looks like when you beat by more than a second in a 1/4?? (you're time for the Cobra is off a few tenths) A second is more than you think. It doesn't sound like much, but, when illustrated in a race, it doesn't look too good. You go ahead and go by your magazine, take it to the street and see what happens. I'd be pissed off if I paid $34,000 for a Z and got beat by a 4 door Grand Prix GTP. I'd probably set fire to the car....lol.

[Hijacker]

thanks rex (on the displacement size)

if we had gotten the S15, it would have had the KA in it...

[SmithSR]

how about a used sportbike for $3500, since we're comparing apples to oranges already?

Are the Z and the Cobra even aimed at the same demographic?

Are the buyers of said cars seeking the same thing?

[Hijacker]

Demographics:

Z owners: mid-twenties looking for "sophisticated" sports car

Cobra owners: mid-life crisis mullet-heads (j/k)

[Hijacker]

just remember to tell yourselves that I actually am a big mustang fan

[cory2081]

you got me right, Rex. Sports cars cost too much. If you want something under, say, $22,000, it's gonna be freakin front wheel drive. That just sucks!! Even Miatas are expensive. Just give me a damn car without all these bells and whistles. Who needs a navigation system in a sports car?? That's what is great about a Cobra. You get loads of power, good handling, it rides great, and there isnt a bunch of useless crap on the car to jack up the price. I mean, if the Z was like $25,000 loaded (about the price of a mustang GT) it would be a good buy. $34,000!!!!!!! What do you think the twin turbo model would cost?? $50,000!!!!! GEEZ No thanks!! Where are the good entry level cars?? oh.....Rex.....the Cobra R is a 5.4 P:) 380HP N/A

[SmithSR]

Why should rwd performance cars cost less than they do now?

[cory2081]

Z owners......mid 20's?? All I see is old people driving them here. The young people are buying the Cobra, there are some older people, but, I mainly see men that are 30ish driving G35s. I didn't intend on comparing the 2 cars, just stating that the Cobra, IMHO, is a better car for the money. I would NEVER spend 34,000 on a Z with 270HP. UGH!!! I'm just saying that I wish Nissan had another car here. I thought the 350Z was going to be cheaper this time around, until I saw the first one at the dealership and looked at the price. Talk about sticker shock.

[Rex]

...if we had gotten the S15, it would have had the KA in it...

Yep, the Frontier is currently sporting a 143hp KA24DE

[cory2081]

WHY?? B/C there are people, like me, and you, and most others on this forum that like cost effective RWD performance cars.....right?? If we didn't would we not all be driving $35,000 brand new sports cars??? Don't you think that anyone of us would buy a brand new, latest and greatest 240SX with even a factory KA24DET that had about 230HP for like $23,000 if Nissan offered it??? WHY SHOULD RWD PERFORMANCE CARS COST SO DARN MUCH??

[Hijacker]

sticker shock always happens during the first year or two of a car's run. The Evo 8 was supposed to retail for 29K when it was debuted here, but dealers were marking them up 5k+. 34k for a car with a measly 276HP, and people were paying for it.

[Rex]

you got me right, Rex. Sports cars cost too much. If you want something under, say, $22,000, it's gonna be freakin front wheel drive. That just sucks!! Even Miatas are expensive. Just give me a damn car without all these bells and whistles. Who needs a navigation system in a sports car?? That's what is great about a Cobra. You get loads of power, good handling, it rides great, and there isnt a bunch of useless crap on the car to jack up the price. I mean, if the Z was like $25,000 loaded (about the price of a mustang GT) it would be a good buy. $34,000!!!!!!! What do you think the twin turbo model would cost?? $50,000!!!!! GEEZ No thanks!! Where are the good entry level cars?? oh.....Rex.....the Cobra R is a 5.4 P:) 380HP N/A

Good, we (NICO) can better understand your point. I'll also respectfully disagree with your "it rides great" comment, buddies 2003 GT is nearly painful, but that's coming from a Q45 guy .

Thanks for pointing out the Cobra R typo, I edited it.

See folks, a healthy discussion. of different points of view.

If we all agreed, this would be a boring place.

[SmithSR]

SVT Cobra had a $15k "NW market adjustment" added on to the first sticker.

Now THAT sounds reasonable

[Hijacker]

cost of parts is the primary reason. you also have to remember inflation is in effect. my car cost 22k off the showroom floor in '92, but with inflation that could easily be closer to 28k today. still, it's not as expensive as the Z, but for a convertable with only 155 HP, 28 is starting to sound like a lot.

FWD cars naturally cost less because there are less components. Why do you think Toyota moved the Celica and Corolla to FWD platforms in the late 80's? Sure as heck wasn't for performance.

[cory2081]

Rex, an GT doesn't have independent suspension like the Cobra does. It also doesn't have Bilstein struts like the Cobra does. Trust me, the Cobra rides GOOD. It doesn't even feel like a Mustang.

[Rex]

All first to market cars have both an MSRP and a SWP (Suckers Will Pay), come on even the PT Cruier was getting $5,000 to $10,000 premiums for the first few months to a year. Think about all the poor saps that OVERPAID to have the first Viper, ZR1, PT, Convert T-Bird, EVO, etc on the block.

[Hijacker]

stupid live axle....at least the '05 mustang is being built to accept both an IRS and live axle so the IRS won't be crammed in there.

[cory2081]

FWD sucks!! Let me just get that out. OK, now Dodge has the SRT-4 for $20,000. What the heck is stopping other companies from being able to offer a comparable car for the money. I'm no fan of Dodge, but, at $20,000, it's a bargain!! I know that RWD costs more. I don't think it's so much inflation as it is other things. These companies waste tons of money on stupid concepts that they never build, nor do they intend to build.....and we pay for it!! They also overengineer stuff, and put useless crap in the cars. Who needs an air conditioned glove box?? You know what I mean?? Just give me something basic, RWD, good power at a price that's hard to beat!!

[cory2081]

I know they mark the cars up when they first come out, that's b/c demand is high. I feel sorry for those poor people, paying like $5000 just for the right to buy the first one that the dealership gets. Then paying thousands more just to buy it. Most of the problem is production #s. I guess the demand for, say, a new 240 is less than a Honda Accord. Still, it's all this over pricing that will kill the cars that they do offer. and that just sucks. we'll be driving jelley beans that run off of sunlight!! YUCK and they'll cost $50000

[SilviaBoston]

Hey SmithSR heres your list

Sports Cars Under 20,000:Eclipse Lancer RSX (on the broader)MX-5 Miata (on the broader)Impreza Mustang Tiburon

Sports Cars still come for under 20,000

Also if the VQ cant be Turbo charged then Super charge it. With the computer technology they got now supercharging it and keeping street legal isnt that hard. That why youd feel all 287 HP from the jump off. Making the car much more enjoyable then it currently is.

[Hijacker]

the thing about the turbo is japan's self imposed power ceiling. most companies have agreed not to exceed it.

you should also mention that the mustang on your list is the base model V-6, which wouldn't hold a candle to the Z

[themadscientist]

Because Americans are like the Ugly guys of the car-buying world, we will take whatever we can get. Why give Americans the GT-R or S15 when they will pay S15 prices for a 240SX. It make sense:(

[PalmerWMD]

cost of parts is the primary reason. you also have to remember inflation is in effect. my car cost 22k off the showroom floor in '92, but with inflation that could easily be closer to 28k today. still, it's not as expensive as the Z, but for a convertable with only 155 HP, 28 is starting to sound like a lot.

And.. for 28k in todays dollars you are over the MSRP of a base Z.

All a base Z needs that it doesnt have, is an LSD.

Everyone is looking at the loaded expensive Z's a but you can buy anice sub 30k Z all day long.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

Hey SmithSR heres your list

Sports Cars Under 20,000:Eclipse Lancer RSX (on the broader)MX-5 Miata (on the broader)Impreza Mustang Tiburon

Sports Cars still come for under 20,000 .

All on that list exccept Eclipse, Mustang and Tiburon are non turbo 4 cylinder cars, some are even econo cars.

They dont meet the defintion of sports car.

Fred...

[Mr1der]

Fred, my SR powered S13 pulls away from my dad's GT, i just fall behind for the first second or so while the turbo spools up Mustangs weigh too much IMO

nah, they don't weight too much, just not enough power:D

The '05 GT is supposed to push 300 and uses an OHC motor now, I like it, but the seats are a little weird looking...

on the topic, (I haven't read all the posts, but I'm assuming it's still on track..) I don't think the 350 is slow, it's not quite the performance bargain the 4th Gen Z28 and TA's were (don't give me the build quality stuff, that's not my point, and yeah, I don't much care for the F body interior) but, it's pretty damn good for a NA V6 motor. I want a G35 6 speed coupe though:drooling

[cory2081]

Oh well, what can I say?? We are dumb Americans and we buy all of the world's crap.Mr1der, the Stang has had OHC engines since 1996. It wasn't til '99 that they made 260HP though, thanks to the new PI heads The '05 will have 3 valves per cylinder, the new 5.4 in the F150 already does and "VTEC" is making its way into these engines as well. Sure you can buy a base model for under $30,000, but, it's still expensive. A fully loaded GT 5 speed is $26,000. Honestly, I think that's a bit much, I could have bought one for $21,000, but, I opted to get the 240 instead. I wanted something "different" I guess.

[Mr1der]

they've had the DOHC 4.6(it's been making 305 since introduced and can now be seen in the new Mach 1) in the Cobra, the '05 GT is finally getting an SOHC motor though and no longer pushrod.

yeah, the current 5.4 was spawned in part from the Cobra R, the GT motor is pretty much supercharged Cobra R motor. The heads are very similar on them.

If Ford wanted to show some balls, they could always put this DOHC V10 they built while kicking around ideas for the Cobra in the new GT for a really cool supercar. (the version in the Stang made about 500 horses at the crank or so (it was in a recent issue of Hot Rodder, I think, that or Hot Rod one) It was pretty much the Cobra R 5.4 with two more cylinders on it...