Why KA-T vs f-body, stangs, etc???

[ppctx]

Why?? Why spend 5K-7K to turbo a 4 cylinder to get 300-350whp when and f-body or other performance v-8 can do the same thing with just a few relatively minor mods, and crank out (from what I've read) 500-700whp with FI. Don't be hatin on me, for me this is a legitimate question. I'm not trolling (I've owned, drove and Defended my 93 240sx since new off the show room floor, had intake and a fat coffee can tipped, cat back greddy exhaust since years before Fast and the Furious, when it was so uncommon that at every red light you could see someone in the car behind point and get everyone else in their car's attention, and will keep this car till the repair shop refuses to bring it back to life again!) After getting an new daily driver, I've been so pumped up on getting my 240 turboed (to the point I'm willing to sell my "by air" and "by sea" toys to fund the makeover, but after more perusing of the net it just seems there are easier ways to make adrenalin rush power.Why have so many choose the KA-T, RB or SR route vs V-8 girth? Please NO FLAMES, I'm just trying to understand.

[turbo2nr]

i love the handling of a 240sx + the appeal of how sexy a kouki is, i first did my suspension, then i felt the need for added power so i went turbo.

light weight, good handling, decent power = fun car

i know what you mean i go to school with people big into v8 ect, they have opened my mind to making 500+whp on a v8 on 8psi. amazing their is no replacement for displacement.

but i dont a big heavy muscle car to drive around in i want some thing nimble and smooth. not saying american muscle cant be (c6 vette) but then i dont have 50k to drop for one of those..

its an ongoing battle, no one is better then the other its comes down to the persons taste

[wild_maxx]

For me... its the challenge of making that 300-400 HP out of a 4 cyl. Sure you can go buy a big V8 with a few bolt on's (or stock) and hit that level but whats the fun in that? We enjoy working on our cars and building them just they way we want.

another thing I like about my 4 cyl..... it can make 300 HP in boost.. but still get around 25-30 mpg on the highway.

The power to weight ratio is another thing I like. We may get able to get into the 12's with just 300 HP and a 2800 lb car. These car's are somewhat lightweight and really fun to drive... add more power to them and it only gets better.

[ppctx]

Ok, thanks. Those are all points I've made in my Defending over the last 14 yrs and over the last couple of weeks when telling friends my intention of turboing it. It IS a beautiful car (which causes me to scratch my head when I see some of the body mods done and welded differentials, etc) It's a great car, wish they would have given me a few more hp from the factory but I think she's going to stay as the created made her.

[WDRacing]

You can always stroll over to the Hybrids forum and look into a swap. Then you get the best of both worlds, there are several options that allow for high WHP without adding any weight.

I've owned ALOT of cars. From my Formula 350 to my beloved Skyline I've enjoyed them all. The KAT is no slouch and when done right is extremely fun to drive. Going KAT used to be the different way to go, which is what attracted me to it. Now it's become almost as common place as the SR. Which is one of the reasons I'm going with a TT V8 setup. It's surprisingly cheap if you don't mind taking your time and fabbing a few things here and there. I'm going with the simplest setup I know off, turbocharged blow through carbs. It doesn't get any easier, or cheaper, then that.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

You wanna say that the average F body could trap 122mph for $8K(cost of car included)?

Be my guest.

[hannibal]

^ maybe once. then you'd have to tow it home...

[WDRacing]

You wanna say that the average F body could trap 122mph for $8K(cost of car included)?

Be my guest.

How many "average" KAT guys do we have running 22lbs of boost on a stock block? How many do we have trapping 122?

[Chezedik]

WD, blow through carbs are going to be a nightmare, you really should think about injection.

[WDRacing]

Not if you're familiar with Carbs. I'm also using sub injectors to handle fueling under boost So the carbs will will be fine.

[eazye2000]

Don't laugh, but here's a true story.

We turbo'ed an old Ford 300 I-6 with a Carb, to turbo, to intake setup before. Didn't like to idle very low, but it worked. And I would think that the turbo being after the carb 'sucked' more air AND fuel at the same time, that when it compressed it, the AFR's stayed more 'true' than with a 'blow through' setup.

Can anyone make sense of what I just said?? lol

[Chezedik]

Yes, the problem with a blow through is a lack of vacuum and indeed positive pressure fighting the venturi effect. Maybe there is something to it if they have a good way to overcome the positive pressure rather than just upping fuel pressure, but that seems as if you would just run to rich at idle, and not idle well at all.

[nissanfanatic]

How many "average" KAT guys do we have running 22lbs of boost on a stock block? How many do we have trapping 122?

How many "average" F body guys get past H/C and maybe a small shot of nitrous for an 11 second run?

[WDRacing]

You have to compare apples to apples bro. A simple 350SBC motor is $750 with the transmission from a junkyard. A full 383 stroker kit is $1200, flip the manifolds and mount two turbo's. Brand new CNC'd complete aluminum heads are under a grand.

You can't argue power vs money and expect a 2.4 to win.

The 240SX rocks with a KAT, but I'm a huge fan of the turbo V8 swap.

[WDRacing]

Yes, the problem with a blow through is a lack of vacuum and indeed positive pressure fighting the venturi effect. Maybe there is something to it if they have a good way to overcome the positive pressure rather than just upping fuel pressure, but that seems as if you would just run to rich at idle, and not idle well at all.

It's a non issue nowadays man. There are all kinds of tips and tricks that can be used. Plus like I said, I'm using subinjection as well.

[nissanfanatic]

You have to compare apples to apples bro. A simple 350SBC motor is $750 with the transmission from a junkyard. A full 383 stroker kit is $1200, flip the manifolds and mount two turbo's. Brand new CNC'd complete aluminum heads are under a grand.

You can't argue power vs money and expect a 2.4 to win.

The 240SX rocks with a KAT, but I'm a huge fan of the turbo V8 swap.

How much are the two turbos?How well do stock GM exhaust manifolds flow?Is the block in sound condition?Are you assembling the block yourself?Decent IM-??At least a 750cfm carb...probably larger for more than ~450whp???(unless you plan to go fuel injection)A car to put it inGM trannies like a rebuild(if you are going auto)GM rear ends usually aren't too launch friendly past 400ft/lbsAre you running a stock cam? Does it provide enough of a powerband to make horsepower for enough RPM to compete the the KA's powerband? Will the cam work with stock valvetrain?Dyno tuning(or include the cost of knock monitoring system)

Assuming an average 3600lb F body, you'll need 500whp to trap 122.

I'm sure thats all past $8K..

IMO, a foxbody+boost is the best bet for budget domestic speed.

[boznuttz]

...Because the KA just happened to come in a car with a great McPherson setup, it's convenient enough for me, lol. Ever take a look at teh rear suspension of the newer Mustangs? It really looks like they didn't change much from the 70s, lol.

[Charlie240sxt]

Bottom line is V8s once you have them get faster cheaper but, they do cost more then our ka's and not alot of guys can push there ka past 300whp with out it blowing stock but, the stang,Fbody or any other v8 musle car i can think of (that i've ever been in) doesn't handle anything like my car and i want that cool psst sound

[boznuttz]

2-300 to the wheels is ALL I need for my s13. Honestly, I think anymore is kind of useless for a daily driven car. But, that's only my opinion...and what I can probably afford for now, lol.

[WDRacing]

How much are the two turbos?How well do stock GM exhaust manifolds flow?Is the block in sound condition?Are you assembling the block yourself?Decent IM-??At least a 750cfm carb...probably larger for more than ~450whp???(unless you plan to go fuel injection)A car to put it inGM trannies like a rebuild(if you are going auto)GM rear ends usually aren't too launch friendly past 400ft/lbsAre you running a stock cam? Does it provide enough of a powerband to make horsepower for enough RPM to compete the the KA's powerband? Will the cam work with stock valvetrain?Dyno tuning(or include the cost of knock monitoring system)

Assuming an average 3600lb F body, you'll need 500whp to trap 122.

I'm sure thats all past $8K..

IMO, a foxbody+boost is the best bet for budget domestic speed.

87 Iroc Z, $3000 on CraigslistSummit manifolds...that flow just as well as any KA turbo header, $179Forged 383 stroker rebuild kit $12002 T3/TO4E turbo's, $750FMIC Ebay, $400Summit highrise manifold with dual carbs, $750Methanol injection kit, $550BRAND NEW 700 R4 from Hughes is $1700

It would be cheaper if I use a 86-93 Mustang LX.

You can make any car go fast, to say you can't is purely ignorant. The KA is nothing special. We can go back and forth all day long comparing different options. The point is it all comes down to what the individual wants.

The best combo is the above motor but installed into a 240SX, but that is my opinion.

[nelson8708]

I am rocking a 13 second stock block KA24E-T. That is because right now i only have a part time job at Fedex and am going to school. In other words i am broke. Maybe in 5 years when this is not my DD i am going to do a RB20 swap because they are cheap and you get the sexy I-6 turbo sound.

Personal choice.

I like the little imports because around here there are a lot of Fox bodies, Firebirds, etc.....that think with a intake and exhaust they can smash any import around. I like the look on their face when i put a few cars on them.

[Chezedik]

Still, what is 13 seconds in a fox body? An intake/exhaust/header/pulley? Seems a lot cheaper than a turbo kit, even if it is T25 .

[WDRacing]

And heads...but heads are cheap nowadays. Under $1000 complete and thats CNC'd aluminum. I believe I saw them for 790 in Jegs. Reguardless, you don't start making decent power without boost on any of the older models, say prior to the LT1. The LSx series is a whole nother animal.

There is a GM motor I'd love to boost, it's the inline 5 that comes in the Colorado and Trailblazer. IIRC it's either 4.2 or 4.5 liters all aluminum DOHC. That would be a sweet motor, light, low end torque and perfect for a single turbo.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

So, $8529 not including heads, wheels, tires(I'll go ahead and say my setup was $9000 with the new wheels/tires I have), plumbing, machine work, gauges, boost control, ect...

Quote »You can make any car go fast, to say you can't is purely ignorant.[/quote]I don't think I ever said that. All I said was "Build an F body that traps 122mph for $8K, cost of car included,"

And better yet, drive it daily(once a week being 12am-5am fun time on the street), and take it on three, 700 mile road trips...

Maybe you can rustle up some ghetto fab stuff, but at the end of the day, my car is actually not too rigged. Its actually a decent automobile that could comfortably be driven daily and won't embarrass the owner when he/she pops the hood..

[WDRacing]

You're right Cory, your car is the best car in the world for under 9K. What was I thinking...

That was an exaggerated list of brand new parts directly from Summit Magazine that a typed out in like 2 minutes. For 9K I can make a GM or Ford or Buick go just as fast as your 240SX.

Get off your horse dude

[Chezedik]

I still think a 302 built with boost. It would cost a little more, but the weight would be better. Of course, I am not saying anything you don't know.

[WDRacing]

My project has quite a few more cubes then 302 More along the lines of 454

I'm still making up my mind whether to use EFI or Carb. I could build my own intake manifold for EFI which would be pretty cool. I've mocked a few up but never actually built one. Or I could use a typical carb type mani with injector bungs and a new throttle body...I dunno. It'll be pretty reguardless.

WD

[nissanfanatic]

You're right Cory, your car is the best car in the world for under 9K. What was I thinking...

That was an exaggerated list of brand new parts directly from Summit Magazine that a typed out in like 2 minutes. For 9K I can make a GM or Ford or Buick go just as fast as your 240SX.

Get off your horse dude

You're right man.. Its your turn to ride...

[Chezedik]

What about a common manifold EFI like the VQ or Vortec? You could also go Tuned Port. Either solution is leaps and bounds better (and probably cheaper) than a blow through. What about a TPI mani modded to fit the new head angle, then using Megasquirt to control it. In any event, there is no sense to going carb'd unless you are pushing 10k RPM or it became 1970 again.

Also, MS will give you timing control.

BTW, guess where I am?

[nissanfanatic]

What about a common manifold EFI like the VQ or Vortec? You could also go Tuned Port. Either solution is leaps and bounds better (and probably cheaper) than a blow through. What about a TPI mani modded to fit the new head angle, then using Megasquirt to control it. In any event, there is no sense to going carb'd unless you are pushing 10k RPM or it became 1970 again.

Also, MS will give you timing control.

BTW, guess where I am?

You should really go read in the blow through section of turbomustangs.com. A lot of the big time ballers of the turbo 8 cylinder world are blow through anymore. A local guy to be back in Florida runs a Blow through supercharged setup and did very well in the US street nationals in Orlando.. He won first place for radial tire.. Will Stevenson is his name..

http://www.bradentonmotorsport...7.htm