Why is KA maxed at 10psi ?

[LT_Z]

I keep reading everyone scared to boost past 10psi without alky ? why is there a need for alky ? Isnt it just running out of fuel ? I mean if your turbo is big enuff and you have an efficient FMIC and enuff fuel to support whats the prob ? I see here also that KA is good for 300-350 RWHP approx. Im just a little confused as to why anything past 10psi is so scary ? is it just for the guys with stock fuel is that what im missing ? i mean alky is a benefit but i want like 300hp on pump gas and no other additives, has anyone else done this ?

Feel free correct me if im just totaly missing the point

[nismofan14]

It can be possible with the right tuning and fuel supply and correct timing. Its just not recommended to try if you have no experience with turboed engines. The nsport kit makes 240 rwp @ 7 psi so thats not to far off of 300.

[WDRacing]

Over 10 can be done without alky. Alky just eliminates detonation and is a very inexpensive way to run high levels of boost. If I offered you a way to run an additional 8 psi for 300 bucks wouldn't you take it??

The KADET is just at the beginnings of a strong performance motor. I don't think the KA has been tapped into nearly far enough. We'll see what happens when I get home.

WD

[TomsMR2]

the rings blow around 10psi... just get new pistons/rings and you're set.

[LT_Z]

OK rings ? is that correct ? if so thats good info ! now that makes alot of sense, what rings are the suggested upgrade ? total seal or what ? and who makes forged pistons for the KA ? I would also like to drop the CR some to make even more boost friendly. By the way if the Nsport kit will produce 240hp what kind of 1/4 mile et is that ? thanx !

[TomsMR2]

9:1 compression (stock) is boost friendly. id keep compression there.

i dont like total seal. some people have had GREAT results with total seal, and some people have had them blow out really quickly. i dont wanna be one of the unlucky people.

[WDRacing]

Pistons/Rings/Rods from any maker whether forged or cast will be destroyed with detonation. If your burning rings at 10 psi its because your running lean and suffering from preignition in a bad way. To say a set of rings will blow at a certain psi is silly.

The stock KA block, to include the entire rotating assembly, has and will be able to handle more boost then 10psi. Just depends on fueling and timing.

WD

[:: orion ::]

For one, stock compression is 9.5:1...

And 10psi won't magically blow out your rings...bad tuning will. I detonated at .4bar and destroyed a ring land, but others with better (fuel and timing) tuning run 12psi daily and 15psi for fun on stock KAs, and have been doing so for a couple years. TY in AZ (White '97-98, F-max Stage II) is an example, as is Dennis in ATL (unSTABLE-Hybrids guy...White S13) - They both run JWT setups.

Hell, Dennis made 357rwhp with a T3/T04E, no exhaust, and 15psi, stock block.

I think people see 10psi as the limit is that *most* low-buck KA turbos setups run 370cc injectors, which won't get you much past 10psi on a decent sized turbo...the limit is more like 265-275rwhp.

To go bigger means $$$ injectors like drop-in Tomeis/Nismo and such, or custom fuel rail with top feeds, etc...

So the KA limit isn't 10psi, but for most of us without HUGE power goals, might as well go with an inexpensive solution that will get you twice the stock HP output - Boost to 8-10psi with 370s.

Later - Brian

[TomsMR2]

past ~7psi, im VERY worried about stock timing maps. without some type of boost dependant timing retard, im NOT seeing 10psi on stock internals.

its a weak point for sure. even with proper tuning, if anything craps out for a fraction of a second, thats all you need to blow ring lands apart. tuning is everything, but the line between safe and blown gets VERY close over 7psi.

[TomsMR2]

as for cast pistons.. i trust them. if your tuning is even close, its hard to melt a piston... they hold up pretty well.

[Exar-Kun]

I'd like to see how much fuel the stock KA fuel rail can support, since I know I can find 740cc drop ins form NISMO and tomei, but am unsure if the fuel rail will support it, I would imagine it does, considering the stock TTZ rails can support the 720cc injectors.-chet

[FrEaK]

Beware that alcohol (ethanol) also dries out your seals, which doesn't help engine longevity.

[WDRacing]

There are additives to run thorugh your system every so often to help out with corrosion and seal damage.

I'm gonna blow up 3-4 KA's as soon as I get back while I'm playing around with my turbo kits and test/tuning sessions. Actually, I'm gonna blow a few up just to see how far they'll go if tuned properly.

Oh, and for those worried about timing, there are several boost retard systems available online. For a wide range in price.

WD

[98TURBOKA]

I have the N-sport kit on my 98 se and it was dynoed at 267 rwhp. The guy that I had tune my car said that if he could get it to hit 300 rwhp with no problem and he thought that the internals could handle it. He doesn't work on alot of 240's but he does know his sh*t. I just didn't want to risk it and blow up my car before I got the fuel upgraded and the lower end rebuilt.

[FrEaK]

There are additives to run thorugh your system every so often to help out with corrosion and seal damage.

I'm gonna blow up 3-4 KA's as soon as I get back while I'm playing around with my turbo kits and test/tuning sessions. Actually, I'm gonna blow a few up just to see how far they'll go if tuned properly.

Oh, and for those worried about timing, there are several boost retard systems available online. For a wide range in price.

WD

I'm just curious as to what these additives are? Do they just recondition and lube the seals or do they bond with the alcohol in the tank?I'm not a big fan of additives...

[creophus]

I have the N-sport kit on my 98 se and it was dynoed at 267 rwhp. The guy that I had tune my car said that if he could get it to hit 300 rwhp with no problem and he thought that the internals could handle it. He doesn't work on alot of 240's but he does know his sh*t. I just didn't want to risk it and blow up my car before I got the fuel upgraded and the lower end rebuilt.

My goal is 250rwhp on my 96 S14. What do you have on your car? Can you post up some more info about your setup?

[98TURBOKA]

magnacore plug wiresclutchmaster clutch stage 4jun lightened flywheelapexi- avcr, dual n1 exhaust, coiloversb&m shorft shifter17x8 milla miglia wheelsperreli p7000 tires300zx brake swap front and backn-sport turbo kitoptima batteryfull stereo systemsway bars- bushing kit- front strut tower bar300zx vlsd

[:: orion ::]

267rwhp at what boost...and still with an FMU and stock injectors???

Let us know - Brian

[:: orion ::]

n/m - From the " KA-T at 5psi" thread you quoted 262rwhp at 7psi...

Still seems high to me...16rwhp/psi is A LOT of gain. I question the dyno or actual boost - Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I'd guess that was not the actual boost (gauge could be off) or the #s were uncorrected, or the dyno was GENEROUS.

Most KAs with a decent sized turbo see about 12-13rwhp/psi - So your should have done ~240rwhp.

Later - Brian

[#1 Stunna]

I'm just curious as to what these additives are? Do they just recondition and lube the seals or do they bond with the alcohol in the tank?I'm not a big fan of additives...

I know that when you make your own race gas you use Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in with it as a lubricant, might be the same with alcohol but no sure.

Ivan

[98TURBOKA]

Typo my bad it is 262 rwhp. I have the FMU that n-sport has with their kit and it is a 7psi.

[FrEaK]

I know that when you make your own race gas you use Marvel Mystery Oil mixed in with it as a lubricant, might be the same with alcohol but no sure.

Ivan

I'll keep that in mind

[creophus]

So 260+ rwhp with just 7 pounds of boost? Sounds too good to be true man. I see you have wires and an exhaust, but that's really good!

[98TURBOKA]

I sent it out to have it done. If you give me an e-mail address I will send you a pic of the dyno runs.

[:: orion ::]

What do you mean sent it out? The motor, as in these are flywheel HP #s - That would make sense.

Were you there for the dyno run?

And you have stock S14 cams, right?

And my e-mail is [email protected] - I can temporarily host and post the pics for you (dyno pic and dyno sheet).

[98TURBOKA]

orioni just sent you the photo of my dyno. I was not there for the dyno run. The figuar is rwhp. I had it dynoed in Kansas City. I can't think of the name of the place, I have their card at home. It's the only place in K.C. to my knowledge.

[creophus]

Please send me a photo of the dyno also, and how many miles does your KA have on it? How long has it been turboed?

[:: orion ::]

Here is "98TURBOKA"s dyno chart...I'm hosting it for him:



And my guess, after looking at the chart, is that the runs were 7psi for 234rwhp and 9-10psi for 262rwhp - It's just way too much power to believe it was 5 and 7psi respectively...

Sounds like your tuner kinda lied to you, 98TURBOKA...

And again, are those stock cams???

Later - Brian

[cow]

That 2nd torque curve is THE best I have ever seen for a turbo KA so far. I wonder what they changed to get that kind of result. Also notice the perfectly flat A/F ratio throughout the RPM range, makes me think they are using some sort of standalone or something.

I think maybe he just has a very good tuner.

[WDRacing]

Yeah, 2 different runs entirely. Run 2 definitly had some boost or tuning work done. Or run 1 was at 5 lbs of boost. But even that is a big margin for 2 psi.

I use Marvels Mystery in my alky tank once a month to lube the seals and pump. Did it for 2 years and I went through enough alcohol to kill a field of cows.

Methonal is alot worse on your seals and pump then denatured is. But it to can be combated with some oil additive. But in moist cases, you need to drain the methonal from your container when not in use do to its chemical reaction. It seems to absorb alot of water from the atmosphere. I'm not sure exactly, I only run denatured.

WD