why honda torque low?

[cys19]

Why is it that almost every honda car has low torque?

[MaineExport]

Super small engine displacement

[SmithSR]

small combustion chamber. Others will answer, but their answers will be variations of that concept.

Such as, bore & stroke specs, bore to stroke comparisons, what would boring(increasing combustion chamber size) do to torque curves.....etc.

[Nismo_Freak]

small combustion chamber. Others will answer, but their answers will be variations of that concept.

Such as, bore & stroke specs, bore to stroke comparisons, what would boring(increasing combustion chamber size) do to torque curves.....etc.

Smaller chambers lend to better efficiency... the main reason behind a Honda's lack of torque is their manifold and head designs.

[SmithSR]

you're ignoring the b20

[Fenvy]

most import automobiles are pale in comparison with domestic automobiles.

[jdmfreak]

Please explain.

[krazy skwerel]

most import automobiles are pale in comparison with domestic automobiles.

Please elaborate. If you are comparing NA 4 cylinder engines to 6cyl and 8 cyl. well then yeah that might be so. Most japanese cars displacement for displacement cyl. to cyl. are superior in HP and torque.

[Fenvy]

whoops I forgot to finish... as far as torque goes, disregarding displacement. engine size/structure (inline / V)

My point is that's the way it's built.

damn, you guys are defensive :P

[Altiman94]

no, you just don't back up your answers with facts.

[Fenvy]

message board is based on mostly opinions of each own rather than facts.

it was a slightly silly question to begin with... why is the sky blue? that's just how things are

[89240sx]

I think there is a logical explanation for this Loveless, just like the reason the sky is blue because of the way light comes through the atmosphere.... and the blue coloring gets scattered more than any other color.

I don't think it's all based on opinion atall

[Fenvy]

I think there is a logical explanation for this Loveless, just like the reason the sky is blue because of the way light comes through the atmosphere.... and the blue coloring gets scattered more than any other color.

I don't think it's all based on opinion atall

of course, you are alright. though my point remains, why does hondas have low torque? because they designed it that way, there is really no need to break down each and every components in the engine to explain the lack of torque. Sometimes there are simpler answers and this is one of those questions that does.

[j-z]

bore X stroke

[Cold_Zero]

message board is based on mostly opinions of each own rather than facts.

it was a slightly silly question to begin with... why is the sky blue? that's just how things are

To be honest, it was a legitimate question that the originator of this thread asked. What made the discussion silly is the fact that you brought the Domestics vs. Import argument into the equation. No offence, but what does it matter if a car is an Import or Domestic when discussing performance of an engine? Lumping all Japanese Automaker lines (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda) into one group, doesn’t accomplish anything constructive when all of their lineups differ radically. Examining the engine design and specification of an Automaker is more constructive than gross generalizations about the auto industry of one country.

[89240sx]

he just said Import... that could be British, Italian Japanese , Korean and on and on....

Anything Imported to the United States is an import.

[GEO]

Gerbils got small legs

[Fenvy]

darn, I withdraw my silly words then

[89240sx]

Gerbils got small legs

I believe sir.... Gerbils have small legs would be correct.

:pface

[Cold_Zero]

he just said Import... that could be British, Italian Japanese , Korean and on and on....

Anything Imported to the United States is an import.

Kind of like Chevy’s, Fords and Chryslers being imported to the US for sale from Mexico and Canada. All the while, Toyotas, Subarus, Hondas and Nissans are being produced inside the US for sale inside the US. Who is calling who an import? My argument is simple. In the current Global Economy that our National Economy is linked into, the lines of Domestic vs. Import are blurred. You have examples of American companies like Ford that own Mazda, Jaguar, Austin Martin, Volvo and Land Rover and produce its cars inside and outside the United States. You have companies like GM that fit the same mold as Ford (owning foreign Automakers) and conducts joint ventures with Toyota and Subaru to produce the Pontiac Vibe and the Saab 92X and soon a GM version of the Forrester. Then you have Chrysler that is owned by Daimler a German company. Renault owns Nissan, Nissan and GM owns stock in Fuji Heavy Industries and so on and so on. It is still a silly argument.

[cys19]

since boring is increasing the size of the combustion chamber, what's stroke or stroking?

[Onizuka]

Longer stroke makes better use of the the complete combustion, Which means more low end grunt.

Hondas make good torque compared to most similar displacement motors:

Honda Accord 3.0 liter V6: 212 lb/ft @ 5000rpmsFord Taurus 3.0 liter V6: 185 lb/ft @ 3950rpms(low model) 200 lb/ft @ 4400rpms(high model) Chevy Impala 3.4 liter V6: 205 lb/ft @ 4000rpmsBMW 330 3 liter I6: 214 lb/ft @ 3500rpmsJaguar s-type 3 liter V6: 216 lb/ft @ 4100rpmsPorche Boxter 2.7 liter H6: 190 lb/ft @ 4750 rpmsCadillac CTS 3.2 liter V6: 220 lb/ft @ 3400rpms

As you can see, associating honda with low torque is absurd.

[IvoryJ30t]

boring does not increase the size of the combustion chamber, povided the piston top travels to the top of the deck.

the combustion chamber is the volume of the chamber in the head.

boring increases the diameter of the cylinder, and stroking increases the distance traveled by the piston through modification or replacement of the crankshaft.

increasing bore and stroke increases displacement.

[IvoryJ30t]

also, a long stroke increases torque because the piston has more leverage on the crankshaft.

the pressure in the cylinder is unchanged, but the piston has a greater distance to travel, and a longer distance from rod journal centerline to crank centerline. more leverage=more applied force.

increasing stroke decreases safe RPM limit due to the increase in inertial forces generated by the increased piston travel distance.

[psychic_mechanic]

Boring increases the diameter of the cylinder the piston moves up and down in. It is generally inexpensive when you already have an engine in pieces and are rebuilding it, only requiring having the machine shop bore the block a little larger when they have it. A big benefit of boring is also since the cylinder is bigger around, more gasses can flow past the valves. This is called unshrouding the valves.

Stroking involves incereasing the distance that the piston moves up and down, and involves special crankshafts, connecting rods and usually pistons. Stroking increases torque more because of increasing the leverage of the combustion to the axis of the crankshaft.

The combustion chamber is the area of the heaad that the valves reside in and where your sparkplugs cause "combustion" to take place.

Honda motors produce low torque because they generally have short strokes, but this short stoke allows the engine to spin at an ungodly RPM to make decent HP. Combined with decent gearing it makes a fun to drive efficient engine. ( oh, crap am I defending Hondas?), but not one you could use to tow anything.

[89240sx]

Kind of like Chevy’s, Fords and Chryslers being imported to the US for sale from Mexico and Canada. All the while, Toyotas, Subarus, Hondas and Nissans are being produced inside the US for sale inside the US. Who is calling who an import? My argument is simple. In the current Global Economy that our National Economy is linked into, the lines of Domestic vs. Import are blurred. You have examples of American companies like Ford that own Mazda, Jaguar, Austin Martin, Volvo and Land Rover and produce its cars inside and outside the United States. You have companies like GM that fit the same mold as Ford (owning foreign Automakers) and conducts joint ventures with Toyota and Subaru to produce the Pontiac Vibe and the Saab 92X and soon a GM version of the Forrester. Then you have Chrysler that is owned by Daimler a German company. Renault owns Nissan, Nissan and GM owns stock in Fuji Heavy Industries and so on and so on. It is still a silly argument.

I know I was agreeing with you by stating that saying "Import" is way too vague.

[MaineExport]

boring does not increase the size of the combustion chamber, povided the piston top travels to the top of the deck.

the combustion chamber is the volume of the chamber in the head.

If the combustion chamber (where head and piston top meet) is a smaller diameter than a bored cylinder... does this not create turbulence and inefficiency in the exhaust stroke?

Just curious.....

[Cold_Zero]

I know I was agreeing with you by stating that saying "Import" is way too vague.

gotcha

[psychic_mechanic]

If the combustion chamber (where head and piston top meet) is a smaller diameter than a bored cylinder... does this not create turbulence and inefficiency in the exhaust stroke?

Just curious.....

It can, and that is why you are supposed to blend that edge to fit. A sharp edge can also create hot spots, so should be rounded down with a dremel tool or die grinder. Don't go crazy removing material from the combuston chamber, as it will lower your compression ration.

Rebuilding an engine to perform takes more than gaskets and an overhaul set. It takes time and lots of measuring.

[psychic_mechanic]

That should be compression ratio, not ration. Too many MRE's I guess.....