Why get wider wheels/tires with more Tq./Hp

[Dirty Dee]

I have seen on this forum that many people get wider tires when they get more power out of their cars. But no matter how wide the tires are, it will still have the same amount of contact area with the road, so whats the point? i read the whole "Why do people recommend wider tires? Don't wider tires mean more grip?" topic, but do people really get wider tires just to get stickier compounds? Or are they just getting wider tires b/c they 'think" wider= more grip?

[SeVa-S13]

Or are they just getting wider tires b/c they 'think" wider= more grip?

On here? Mainly, and for looks.

[naed240sx]

People who think that wider tires don't help are pretty retarded. I've heard it argued a million times that width doesn't matter, but it does. I'm just too lazy to explain it right now.

Then there are the people who want 275 rears and 225 fronts, for a "PHAT rear stance". Those people are also retarded.

[SeVa-S13]

Moderation is key, but compound matters more than most anything of course.

[Dirty Dee]

My roommate said kinda the same thing. He tried to explain how if the width is greater and it has the same sidewall height, it will have a larger contact patch. I asked him why, and he paused for a while and told me that "it just does".

[hannibal]

Good question:While the size of the patch remains (nearly) constant, the shape of the patch changes. Maybe a wider, shorter patch is better for traction and lateral grip.

[EazyBreazy]

Good question:While the size of the patch remains (nearly) constant, the shape of the patch changes. Maybe a wider, shorter patch is better for traction and lateral grip.

we have a winner, a wider contact patch will increase cornering traction to an extent, but there is a delicate balance. in addition, the amount of weight on a tire can increase or decrease the contact patch(not much, but it will) ie. heavy accelleration, cornering, deceleration. go here for a visual http://www.rmcbmwcca.org/Drivi....html this is dependant on tire deflection though

also thisn a short version, no. Don't go e-mailing me about how wrong I am yet, either. Think about your tire as a balloon (more accurate than most people think) holding the weight of your car up. Now, if you place a balloon on the ground, it has a certain area that contacts the ground, this is the 'contact patch', now you can make the patch wider(wider balloon) but the total rear remains the same, because the pressure on the balloon is the same.

Now, what does this mean to YOU? It means that since the same amount of tread is in the contact patch area between either tire, 'grip' should be the same. Thusly, the only things affecting grip(since the area of potential contact is the same) are tread design and friction(tread compound) and finally how well the suspension does a job of keeping the tire in optimum contact with the road surface.

Unfortunately it is not that simple. A wider tire does have some benefits over it narrower counterparts, with a wider contact patch comes a bit better lateral stability(to a point, lateral stress doesn’t vary THAT much between narrow and wide tires), but sacrifices some ride comfort, and less noise cancellation(in theory). This can both generate quicker turn-in and, since the treadblocks are wider, less tread squirm which can increase total available cornering force. Also of note, a wider tire generates more rolling resistance than a narrow tire.

Something else to consider:

Think of a gap in the road surface, typically these run perpendicular to the tires contact patch. On a narrow tire, with a long contact patch, the gap in the road surface would take up more (percentage wise) of its contact patch than a wider tire. Make sense?

...so wider tires do provide some benefit, to a point. Wider tires usually come in stickier compounds, too. Yet, the compound and tread design has far more to do with tire grip than the size.

Now quit asking me how wide of a tire you can fit on something.

from this zerothread/81404

or read this thread zerothread/146261

there's a pletra of info out there, but basically, wider tires dont increase contact patch, they change the shape and thats the benifit.

[Red coupe]

My roommate said kinda the same thing. He tried to explain how if the width is greater and it has the same sidewall height, it will have a larger contact patch. I asked him why, and he paused for a while and told me that "it just does".

yup what that guy before me said, the only reason the contact patch is what it is is because the tire is flattening out as it is pushed against the ground. A wider tire distributes the load placed on it over a greater width and there for deforms less giving less patch length.

I think as far as putting down power is concered only part of the contact patch is really gripping when the tire is near its limit, and simply put a wider tire places more rubber in this area?(I THINK)

I do agree with Seva though, Tire compound is more important then wheel width, and on a budget I rather rock stock rims with sticky tires then new bigger rims and Windstars....

But I also agree with Naed that generally a wider patch is more benifitial then a longer one(assuming same compounts and within the range of legitamte/sain changes)

[crzycav86]

or read this thread zerothread/146261

I like how the starter of that thread defended his primitive theory by calling out his critics' ages, yet he can't even get the math in his own theory correct. I wish I had seen that thread when it was new so I could have made fun of him then. hahaha.

Anyway, anything I would have said in regards to this thread has already been mentioned.

[Red coupe]

I like how the starter of that thread defended his primitive theory by calling out his critics' ages, yet he can't even get the math in his own theory correct. I wish I had seen that thread when it was new so I could have made fun of him then. hahaha.

Anyway, anything I would have said in regards to this thread has already been mentioned.

lol not to mention it makes the assumption that the shape of a tire's contact patch has no effect on grip, completely ignoring how accelerative forces are generated in the tire...

it turns out vehicle dynamics are complex, and empirical data should be held with higher regard then theoretical models...whodathought.

[EazyBreazy]

it was half way informative theres better sources out there, but i coulnt find a damned one of them last night