Why get a RB20 over a SR20 when they have the same displacement?

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

i think the thread should be closed. we're all in agreement that the argument is pointless and dumb.

Post by **Kaioshin1982** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

omg u people its so obious and true that b16 rules both the sr and rb

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

you're right kaioshin! what was i thinking??

Post by **PROJECTRB240SX** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

NO NO...... YOUR STILL WRONG ITS EJ20TT!

Post by **Linolium28** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

what i think is funny is that most people i see bashing the sr b/c it's so common (not only on this forum) seem to be running and/or building the ka, which is obviously the most common engine in our usdm 240's. personally, i'll give credit to anyone that takes on the challenge of an engine swap or puts time and money into tuning any engine. Matt

Post by **StockerThanStock** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

If you wanted to make your 240 kick *** all up and down winding roads and not care about quarter mile rubbish, would either the KA, SR, or RB have an significant advantage?

Post by **Hijacker** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

The KA and the SR make for a better track car and the RB is best for 1/4 IMO. The RB weighs much more than the SR and KA and it's balance center is different as well. It's kind of like adding at least another 100 pounds in front of your wheels. I have yet to thrash an RB powered 240, but I imagine it won't be as nimble as an SR powered one (not saying it isn't agile, though)

Post by **aleph1** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

To give some clarification to the whole "srs are ghey cuz everyone has them" argument...

I am not really an SR fan myself, but I respect the engine. Nissans are cool period. ANYWAY

Its not that I dont like them cuz they are "popular" its because they are sometimes chosen for stupid reasons, eg being mad tyte JDM. I mean seriously you could get a turbo kit for the KA for the same price (nowdays at least) as youd pay for JUST the front clip/engine set of the SR. And its not like either engine is better once the KA is turboed, the .4 liters might affect the performance of the KA more, but the SR makes up for it in other ways.

The point is that there are MORE options than just the SR20DET for the 240SX and most Super Street readers don't really realize this and just go for the most obvious, talked about swap...whether its really good for their needs or not.

Post by **StockerThanStock** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

tenkawa_akito, there may be an extra 100 lbs in the front, but it'd still be balanced out in the rear by the audio system. Sure that's roughly 200 extra pounds, but it'd still be fun to smoke a souped up Civic-weiner-mobile and rattle your rear view mirrors enough so you don't have to see him/her!

Post by **StrangeLove** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Quote »Sorry to point this out, but your totally wrong in every aspect of your post.

Anyone who thinks the SR block is weak just doesnt know what the hell they are talking about. If you want when I get home I can scan a article with a 800rwhp SR with a stock aluminum block. Next time anyone on this forum even owns any car with 800rwhp please let me know.

Stock vs stock: the RB20 makes more horsepower, the SR20 makes more torque.

RB20's are like 200-250 less than SR's, but aftermarket parts are way more expensive in the US for any RB motor.

Both are cool, both have certain advantages, pick what you want.[/quote]Did I ever say the SR block was weak? NO I didn't! I said iron vs aluminum!

Also, go ahead and scan the article with the 800hp SR on the stock, I would love to see that because I do not believe it. The only engine I know of that could have 800hp+ on the stock block is the 2jz...

As for the prices:

RB20DET Half Cut 5 spd M/T - $2295

SR20DET S14 Half Cut 5 spd M/T - $3295

Was I off alittle in the prices? yes I was, lets ****ing sue me!

http://www.night7racing.com/

Yes the SR does have more torque

Quote »EARTH TO PILLS, THE RB25 AND RB20 REALLY DONT HAVE MUCH IN COMMON. I think you can swap the cranks and oilpan, maybe some various gaskets, thats about it.[/quote]

I felt this thread had turned into 6 cylinders vs 4 cylinders, and I thought we were talking about RBs in general. So I posted something that I thought was interesting. I'm so sorry if you have a problem with that....

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

aleph1 wrote:Its not that I dont like them cuz they are "popular" its because they are sometimes chosen for stupid reasons, eg being mad tyte JDM.

I dont know ONE person who bought their SR for that reason. I have heard a bunch of people SAY that, but they normally end up being 14 year olds with no money who never even get a 240sx. There is nothing more annoying than being stereotyped, even if the stereotype is completely false in all aspects.

Post by **SeVa-S13** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Yeah, I hate being stereotyped by my black friends as the silly white dude who likes so no-*** skinny chicks.

Beyotches gotta have the full package, including a little badonk. :icesangel

Post by **aleph1** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

J-Spec Tuner wrote:I dont know ONE person who bought their SR for that reason. I have heard a bunch of people SAY that, but they normally end up being 14 year olds with no money who never even get a 240sx. There is nothing more annoying than being stereotyped, even if the stereotype is completely false in all aspects.

Ok you may have got me there....they definitely have no money...which is a by product of being stupid =)

I never said all SR owning ppl bought it cuz of JDM, I just said some...and I am sure some have, you just are above their "level" hence you dont know any of them. My friends prolly know lots lol.

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

pills wrote:Did I ever say the SR block was weak? NO I didn't! I said iron vs aluminum!

Also, go ahead and scan the article with the 800hp SR on the stock, I would love to see that because I do not believe it. The only engine I know of that could have 800hp+ on the stock block is the 2jz...

These are just some pictures from the article i scaned a while ago, when i get home april 9th I'll be sure to post the whole article for you:

I dont see a block guard or re-enforcement do you?

Quote »As for the prices:

RB20DET Half Cut 5 spd M/T - $2295

SR20DET S14 Half Cut 5 spd M/T - $3295

Was I off alittle in the prices? yes I was, lets ****ing sue me![/quote]How about you choose a S13 SR that was actually made the same year as the RB20DET, not a much newer S14 SR20.

SR20DET S13 half cut 5 spd M/T - $2750

Cool, so the RB is $350 cheaper. After buying parts they will cost about the same (have to buy 6 injectors instead of 4, 6 pistons instead of 4, RB parts are more expensive in general)

Quote »I felt this thread had turned into 6 cylinders vs 4 cylinders, and I thought we were talking about RBs in general. So I posted something that I thought was interesting. I'm so sorry if you have a problem with that.... [/quote]

You cant talk "RB's in general" just like you cant talk "SR's in general" when you're comparing 2 specific motors. The RB20E isnt in the same league as the SR20VET just like the SR16DE isnt in the same league as the RB26DETT. Some rock and some suck nuts.

Im not saying the SR is better, all im saying is you should seriously think about if what you're posting is true or accurate. Spreading misleading information is not cool.

Post by **aleph1** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Someone else said this above, but it isnt as much about the internals as it is about the tuning. The SR could, and according to Jspec, has made 800hp on a stock block...notice the stand alone in the middle pic, its very possible these people know how to tune an engine.

RB26DETT also has a reputation for high hp/stock block apps. The 2JZ is not the best engine evar.

Post by **alkemyst** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

One thing I always think is funny is there are a ton of 500HP+ 4 bangers out there....many 'manufacturers' have their little dyno baby. These things usually never see themselves driven even once monthly...they are usually ran once at an event, then rebuilt for the next one.

The hard part comes not from building a powerful engine, but from building a powerful engine that's streetable and reliable and daily drivable.

There are so many variables with engines you simply can't say all 8's are better than 6's and all 6's are better than 4's....cylinders really can be considered a minor part of the power equation...

The main thing is be happy with what you got or make it better....money is usually the limiting factor and chances are there will always be a faster car out there...the trick is just not meeting it at every red light or strip line up.

Å

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Built properly, 500+ hp 4 cylinders are reliable. That JUN motor is in an australian street car.

None of the max horsepower stuff really matters to me though, because thats not what im going for. I merelly am using it as an example to dispell the false rumor that because the SR block is aluminum that it sucks or is inferior to an iron block.

Post by **BoostFab** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

StockerThanStock wrote: but it'd still be fun to smoke a souped up Civic-weiner-mobile and rattle your rear view mirrors enough so you don't have to see him/her!

you think you can smoke this "weiner-mobile"? click here and find out...

i think you should be careful with what you're getting yourself into.

Post by **StrangeLove** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

I'm still not seeing how I am posting false information...

Also, I am in no way saying that the SR sucks. I've seen SRs with 600hp+ ,but not on a stock block...

I do think the 2jz engine is the best evar

Post by **Onizuka** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Just to point out because your not seeing it:

Your first post:Quote »I6 over I 4Iron over Aluminum

The RB is just a superior engine...

Also, The RB is cheaper... 2,800 for front clip with mounts and driveshaft compared to the SR which like 3,300 for just an engine...[/quote]Posting a S14 price instead of a S13 price was on purpose and misleading. Posting the dyno figures for a RB25 is also misleading because it does not share the same bottem end as the RB20, they are different motors. You also said that the Iron is better than aluminum, when in reality the only difference it makes is that the SR is lighter (this is why i posted the 800hp SR, the internals are rebuilt, but the aluminum block is stock and didnt need any re-enforcement), your average person wont excede 300hp on the SR20 or RB20, so block material really doesnt matter from a strength point of veiw.

Yes the 2jz is probably the most rediculously overbuilt motor ever made, I would take a RB30DETT hybrid motor over it anyday though

I wouldnt mind putting a RB20DET in a 240sx myself, it would be a good experience, im going to try and convince my freind with a 91 white coupe to do it.

Post by **StrangeLove** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

If I knew of a video of RB20 that was running on the stock bottom end, and making that much horsepower I would of posted it. But, that was the best I could find, and I thought its a really cool video...

I did have a reason for posting the s14 SR prices. However, its not a very good reason, and I admit that....

Much more people seem to be interested in the s14 blacktop motor over the s13 motor...

See, its not very good...

Post by **drifter_for_life06** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

fi i were goign the route of the RB motors, id go for a RB25

Post by **PalmerWMD** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

I currently have an SR in my S13, but I would love to have an RB.

From a pure engine standpoint the RB is better, I6's are an exceptonally smooth design, capable of high rpm and great balance.6 combustion chambers for a given size vs 4, also makes for more efficient combustion and a greater power potential all other things being equal)

The advantage of the SR is, its aluminim construction and therefore lesser weight= easier to make car handle real well.

The SR is a very very good engine but the RB 20 is a (small) notch up.Also Sr's are clearly more expensive to buy, but much easier to install as the RB's need a lot of extra expertise and a lot of extra work to install.

Fred...

Post by **StockerThanStock** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

"I'm sure he meant.....even after it's a 10 second car....it's still a civic."

Civics will continue to be weiner-mobiles until my brother sells his which he said he was going to sell over a year ago. And 520 hp? Good lord...I didn't mean THAT souped up! I'm just aiming for the 300 mark!

Post by **SeVa-S13** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

Cheese Frog is the freakin' man. His car is the hot sh1t too. He's the hatch that keeps up with the sick Viper in a very popular video..

Post by **alkemyst** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm

The bottom line of this is whether its an RB20 or SR20 overall each are capable of comparable power and reliablity. The RB may have a better exhaust note and possibly be slightly smoother...but that's preference and smoother is only so good when everything else in the chassis has been stiffened and undampened

Now the RB25 and RB26 aren't much different...most of the gain you get is in the displacement advantage. Of course there is a ton of parts geared specifically to these two engines and making more power....but it comes with a limit in a 2wd vehicle. AWD Skylines can use the extra power more efficiently.

With an almost unlimited checkbook you can find yourself being able to make more power, but simply not be able to make a faster run.

Another thing is once you get past a certain power level, making more power becomes increasingly more expensive...most people here even if sponsored will find limits they simply don't want to cross. It's very typical to make 250hp more for $3000-5000 and then the next 50hp costs an equal amount, as does the next 25hp, and so on. In high stakes racing this becomes profitable, outside of that you get to have the fastest car by a tenth, but have to live in it

Å

Why get a RB20 over a SR20 when they have the same displacement?

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