Who won the debate?

[audtatious]

Guesso. The way that Pelosi and gang + the media have thus far successfully deflected all financial problems to the Republicans (which is what I think their intention was throughout this whole "bill" issue) is only a plus for your candidate. Does not matter what the truth is, just what the media and others get sheeple to believe.

[szh]

Perhaps your source should have actually talked to the mother instead of reporting what they received secondhand as fact. The mother originally didn't want it to become a political issue but when she was actually asked about Obama's bringing it up she was "ecstatic" about it.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/....html

The source did talk to the mother again - she was not ecstatic:

Quote »**UPDATE**

Jopek Mother Confirms She Asked Obama NOT To Use Bracelet in Campaign

This afternoon the Associated Press was at last able to contact Tracy Jopek, mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, the KIA soldier on the bracelet that Barack Obama is using on the campaign trail. Ryan's Mother is confirming that she gave the bracelet to Mr. Obama, but is also confirming that she asked him to stop using her son's name on the campaign.

After Tracy Jopek gave Sen. Barack Obama a bracelet in honor of her son who was killed in Iraq, she asked Obama not to mention the bracelet on the campaign trail.

She did, however, claim that she was "satisfied" with how Obama discussed the bracelet in the presidential debates last week.

But, we have another little mystery with these AP reports. The original headline for this report was "Soldier's mother 'ecstatic' about Obama's bracelet," released at about 7PM the evening of the 28th. But a few hours later, the AP changed it to "Soldier's mom defends Obama's mention of bracelet."

Apparently, Jopek's mother did NOT say she was "ecstatic" about Obama continuing to use her son's name on the campaign trail even after she told him to stop. The AP had to change its headline to reflect the truth.

The fact remains, the woman has repeated that she asked Obama not to mention her son on the campaign trail and this AP report confirms that. Will Obama stop using her son, now that we are sure she said she wanted him to stop?[/quote]Z

[HashiriyaS14]

Guesso. The way that Pelosi and gang + the media have thus far successfully deflected all financial problems to the Republicans (which is what I think their intention was throughout this whole "bill" issue) is only a plus for your candidate. Does not matter what the truth is, just what the media and others get sheeple to believe.

Personally, I think Pelosi's partisan speech was disgraceful and inappropriate at the time, I'm no big fan of hers.

That said, I AM in favor of the bailout. BOTH candidates are in favor of it as well, or so it would appear. The House GOP is acting like kids because they didn't get consulted, and they risk further damaging the GOP brand with their tomfoolery. The Democrats are indeed not helping the situation however, with their partisan posturing. BO has appeared, at least, to be trying to stay above the bickering in Congress, and simply urging both sides to go forward with it. McCain, to his credit, is doing basically the same thing, albeit with a little more silly showmanship (i.e. campaign suspension, but he and BO were advocating basically the same thing).

[Jesda]

And I suppose we'll see whether or not a majority of the population agrees with you.

Not sure how that matters in the context of discussing what America is -meant- to be.

[HashiriyaS14]

Not sure how that matters in the context of discussing what America is -meant- to be.

Yeah, but we weren't really engaged in a conversation wherein we were trying to discuss what America should be. He sort of attempted to start up that conversation, but I decided that, being the completely subjective issue that it is, I wasn't going to have it.

It wasn't the point of the earlier conversation, the point was that BO was stating that he didn't think America was "being all it could be". What, specifically, WE each want it to be was not, as I saw it, the point of the conversation.

If people are, for whatever inexplicable reason, wildly curious as to what precisely I want it to be, I'm more than willing to entertain them, but I was trying to keep it to the discussion at hand.

[nzmoman]

I can't say that I believe there was a winner of the debate. Polls are mostly biased as you can never tell the type of people responding. For instance, not to many conservatives are going to readily watch and take a poll on CNN. You also never can tell the demographic of the people polled. so you can't take that stuff into consideration as a declaration of a "winner"

I liked listening to both candidates.I think that one of my most favorite moments was when McCain called Obama out about the "4 more years of bush policies" McCain basically said that if you look at a persons ability to admit wrongness and make necessary changes without being stubborn then you will see who is more like Bush. and he pointed out Obama's unwillingness to admit that he was wrong in saying the surge would not work, proving a similar minded stubborn attitude like Bush. I thought it was a great stance because for the last two elections the term Flip flopping has been coined even though people believe that if a candidate is on the wrong path, they should stop and make necessary changes. McCain has been the first candidate to give a really good rebuttal to those types of arguments.

I felt like Obama was over rehearsed. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it just makes me feel like he is not given the ideas of his heart, but maybe just throwing "what the people want to hear rhetoric". Even in addressing the issues on the economy his #'s don't work out. 95% of Americans getting a tax break, while the people who employ those Americans get a tax increase. that doesn't add up when the system is all connected. As McCain commented about that inconsistency in theory, all Obama could say was "All I can say is 95% of Americans will get a tax cut" even when challenged on explaining he could not elaborate...that is not the sign of a person who has committed to a well thought out plan. If he could not give a better answer than that there are real problems with his ideas.

If employers can't make payroll, then it doesn't matter what the tax break is because some of those Americans will loose their income all together. But I don't believe that free market and benefiting the already proven to be abusive industries and companies is the answer either.

[AZhitman]

^ Exactly. That's such an absurd statement, I'm amazed no one's really hacking on it. 95% of Americans getting a tax cut? No, Barack - it don't work that way.

I'd prefer if he didn't make such outrageous claims. Then again, I'd prefer it if stupid people didn't BELIEVE his outrageous claims, too.

[srellim234]

The story posted the 29th has a byline on it; the story you quote from the 30th does not. Both stories indicate they are based on statements made on Sunday but don't indicate if the stories are based on the same interview with the same reporter, two reporters at two different times, written by two different people working from third party notes or whatever. The mother's initial reaction may well have used the word "ecstatic" early on and she may have been more tempered as the interview/press conference/reporters yelling questions on the front lawn of her house went on.

Bottom line is that she was ok with the manner by which Obama brought it up at the debate and she would like to see the issue dropped.

[audtatious]

Yeah, but we weren't really engaged in a conversation wherein we were trying to discuss what America should be. He sort of attempted to start up that conversation, but I decided that, being the completely subjective issue that it is, I wasn't going to have it.

I made a comment based on my opinion. There was no initiative on my part to go into my opinion at all other than stating it as everyone has a different view of what America should be. If I had wanted to go down that path I would have regardless. You know that

[hsckris]

This is what you said:

That is just one reference. BO has a pattern of saying/doing this. It has even been documented in this very forum: zerothread/351001