Who won the debate?

[GrilledCheese33]

He also seemed to forget who the president was during the depression and when tv was invented

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5_T6CfHvE

Hello Biden, Herbert Hoover was the president and there wasn't even tv then.

[Jimefam]

This is why palin is in hiding.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4479049n

Great comedy.

[AZhitman]

There was no requirement for SP to be there. Just because BO hauls his goon around doesn't mean J-Mac has to do the same.

I really, really wanted McCain to say, "Son, I'd prefer you address me as Senator, or Mr. McCain. Not 'John'."

Showed me that while both men disagree strongly, there's a respect differential... likely generational.

[audtatious]

So no McCain supporters care to comment on why Palin was NOWHERE TO BE SEEN after the debates?

I have no idea where she was or why she was not there. I didn't even know that Biden was going to be post-interviewed by MSNBC so it would have been nice to have them both there or neither.

[Jesda]

I dont care where Sarah Palin was. I do care about John McCain's support of the financial bailout. I do care about his pullout plan for Iraq.

Again, focusing on petty unrelated BS instead of focusing on the big helpings of government offered by both candidates.

[Cold_Zero]

I made it a half hour into it and then turned the TV off. I thought the start was rough and horrible. A few things that bugged me:1. McCain was always trying to force one-liners (You can't get there from here) maybe in hopes of having a Campaign motto that they can print up on bumper stickers? Kind of like the 2004 'Flip Flop' line. 2. McCain didn't look at Obama. What was up with that? You look back to the 2004 and 2000 debates and you will see Bush directly speaking to Kerry/Gore and vice versa. Now if an old war injury is the cause, I apologize and retract this statement.3. Obama kept stumbling through his words. It doesn't instill confidence when your every second word is "Umm" "Ahhh" and so on. Good Lord. For as polished as he comes off with a teleprompter, Gore and Kerry (dare I say GW Bush who is not a prolific speaker) do a much better job debating.4. I got a bad vibe with both Obama and McCain agreeing on principle and agreeing on application. Are both them too scared of picking apart the other for fear of backlash that might ensue? I was ready for the gloves to come off and what I saw was a slap fight.5. McCain kept hashing up the same old attacks that his campaign has been launching for the past 3 months. I heard nothing new about Obama from McCain and was let down.

I think I am with Jesda on this one. At this point, I think we all loose when one of these guys win. I need details, not platitudes.

[audtatious]

You may not have heard anything new about Obama, but then again you are on this forum posting which means you are informed. How many people do you think were watching the debates last night that were not really aware of McCains attack points of the past?

I hope McCain was simply trying to play catchup and delves into new areas in the next debate. I also thought it was lame that he did not attack back on the financial issues being a partisan problem instead of letting Obama lay it directly at the Republicans and Bush's feet. The first two questions resulted in Obama slapping McCain/Republicans around with McCain just standing there smiling.

[Cold_Zero]

Point taken.

[audtatious]

Something interesting....

That bracelet that Obama mentioned he wears for the fallen soldier?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/w...media

[HashiriyaS14]

McCain just standing there smiling.

Yeah, and that's another thing.

His "handlers" need to tell him to STOP SMILING on camera all the time, particularly when someone else is speaking. It looks creepy and overly-paternalistic. Whomever told him that the correct tack to take on body language and attitude is "this person doesn't deserve to be on stage with me" gave some BAD advice. That is not how you come across as Presidential.

[audtatious]

He should have rolled his eyes more if he was just going to smile, kinda like Obama intentionally laughing at times. A "WTF" look towards Obama at times would have been good too

[Jesda]

The McCain Grin doesn't work in a debate setting. I completely agree. He looks both condescending and angry.

[audtatious]

You forgot "constipated"

[AZhitman]

I think BO appeared completely retarded when he said, "Y'know John, I have a bracelet too."

Then he couldn't remember the name on it.

Then we find out that it's simply a political prop and the family opposes it.

He really is pathetic. I'd have more respect for him if he'd have said, "Sen McCain, your bracelet isn't helping anyone. My plan will."

But, he didn't. Puss.

[96Qowner]

Man, that's just foul about the bracelet! My first reaction was to roll my eyes at Obama's "me too". What kid's stuff. Now I learn he's not even supposed to be mentioning it??? What a phony! Makes me angry. The mother is an Obama supporter - gave him the bracelet as a private gesture. Then, when he turned it into a campaign technique, she asked him to stop. Does he? What a slap in the face.

I agree about McCain's smile - seriously creepy. But my theory is that it's an anger management technique. I'm pretty sure McCain has this guy's number - doesn't care for him AT ALL. McCain has that reputation for impatience with phony obstructionists. I really got a kick out of his phrasing in his letter to Obama-the-junior-Senator:

I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. When you approached me and insisted that despite your leadership’s preference to use the issue to gain a political advantage in the 2006 elections, you were personally committed to achieving a result that would reflect credit on the entire Senate and offer the country a better example of political leadership, I concluded your professed concern for the institution and the public interest was genuine and admirable. Thank you for disabusing me of such notions with your letter to me dated February 2, 2006, which explained your decision to withdraw from our bipartisan discussions. I’m embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss routinely used in politics to make self-interested partisan posturing appear more noble. Again, sorry for the confusion, but please be assured I won’t make the same mistake again.

http://obama.senate.gov/letter...eform/



I've used those same words myself when replying to a phony who tried to play me. Nice and polite, and with a smile.

[AZhitman]

Holy crap.

That's an asswhuppin' on paper.

I think the smile is also a mental imagery technique. While he's thinking "I'd like to smack some sense into this delusional chump", he's probably visualizing sitting on a beach in Cancun with a cold drink and a good book.

[hsckris]

BO again stated his distaste for America. This time he said it is not the America it can be or once was or something to that effect.

IMO anyone who truly feels that way can GTFO. This is America, and most Americans are proud of it. I, for one, do not condone this from a person who purports to want to lead this country.

I say again because on prior occasions BO has made other anti-American remarks, such as 'I'm embarassed for America..."

[HashiriyaS14]

BO again stated his distaste for America. This time he said it is not the America it can be or once was or something to that effect.

IMO anyone who truly feels that way can GTFO. This is America, and most Americans are proud of it. I, for one, do not condone this from a person who purports to want to lead this country.

I say again because on prior occasions BO has made other anti-American remarks, such as 'I'm embarassed for America..."

Saying that America is not "being all it can be" is not the same thing as not being proud of it, not when a vast majority of the nation is on record as thinking that the country is on the wrong track.

You can admit that your nation is on a bad course and strive to fix it without being Un-American. If Barack Obama wins this election, it will be because a majority of the country feels that we are not, collectively, living up to our capabilities. That's the platform he's running on and, at present, a majority of this country's population seems to agree.

[ishkabibble]

BO again stated his distaste for America. This time he said it is not the America it can be or once was or something to that effect.

IMO anyone who truly feels that way can GTFO. This is America, and most Americans are proud of it. I, for one, do not condone this from a person who purports to want to lead this country.

I say again because on prior occasions BO has made other anti-American remarks, such as 'I'm embarassed for America..."

Nah, people who think critics should GTFO are the ones who should GTFO. I respect patriotic people who strive to better the country. Armchair citizens that are proud of the status quo are ignorant about what this country is all about, IMO.

[hsckris]

Nah, people who think critics should GTFO are the ones who should GTFO. I respect patriotic people who strive to better the country. Armchair citizens that are proud of the status quo are ignorant about what this country is all about, IMO.

Please point out where I said we can't better the country? A person can be proud and think there is room for improvement.

BO isn't saying that -- he is saying he isn't proud, is embarassed, etc. His remarks are blatantly unpatriotic. Especially when seen/heard/read in conjunction with the Rev. Wright talk (who has repeatedly said "f&ck America" and God should destroy America) and the flag pin issue.

The personal attacks of "ignorant" and "armchair citizen" are unfounded, unnecessary, and unwarranted.

[ishkabibble]

BO isn't saying that -- he is saying he isn't proud, is embarassed, etc. His remarks are blatantly unpatriotic.

I dunno, unlike some people, perhaps he doesn't see our country as infallible. People who think in absolutes lack critical thinking skills, IMO.

The personal attacks of "ignorant" and "armchair citizen" are unfounded, unnecessary, and unwarranted.

Neither were directed specifically at you, and neither is a personal attack. Just an observation of the "America, F*** Yeah!" crowd.

FWIW, I don't see how the word "ignorant" is ever a personal attack. At worst, it is a mischaracterization.

[hsckris]

I dunno, unlike some people, perhaps he doesn't see our country as infallible. People who think in absolutes lack critical thinking skills, IMO.

Again -- please show me where I said it is infallible. You are missing the point. The point is regardless of any so-called "crisis" or other issues with America, you should still be proud to be an American IMO. America is still the best place on earth from my perspective, and if you don't think so then please leave (and certainly please don't attempt to lead).

FWIW, I don't see how the word "ignorant" is ever a personal attack. At worst, it is a mischaracterization.

I'll give you that -- wasn't sure if you were talking about me or generally. Thanks internet

[ishkabibble]

Again -- please show me where I said it is infallible. You are missing the point. The point is regardless of any so-called "crisis" or other issues with America, you should still be proud to be an American IMO.

Were regular Germans during Nazi rule "still proud to be Germans" or should they have been ashamed? Just something to think about.

When the country is doing things that you consider to be un-American, then I feel it is fine to express your displeasure.

America is still the best place on earth from my perspective, and if you don't think so then please leave (and certainly please don't attempt to lead).

I'm way too ignorant of the thousands of places on Earth to make any accurate assessment of what "the best place on Earth" is. As are most people in the world. Though, America is one of the best, I'm sure.

[srellim234]

Something interesting....

That bracelet that Obama mentioned he wears for the fallen soldier?

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/w...media

Perhaps your source should have actually talked to the mother instead of reporting what they received secondhand as fact. The mother originally didn't want it to become a political issue but when she was actually asked about Obama's bringing it up she was "ecstatic" about it.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/....html

[ishkabibble]

He really is pathetic. I'd have more respect for him if he'd have said, "Sen McCain, your bracelet isn't helping anyone. My plan will."

But, he didn't. Puss.

Nah. Then the right would have criticized him for "not supporting the troops".

Both of the bracelet statements were pathetic IMO. Little more than interesting anecdotes.

[hsckris]

Were regular Germans during Nazi rule "still proud to be Germans" or should they have been ashamed? Just something to think about.

Comparing the U.S. to Nazi Germany is hardly apt.

When the country is doing things that you consider to be un-American, then I feel it is fine to express your displeasure.

One more time: expressing displeasure (or however you want to phrase it) IS NOT the same as being patriotic/unpatriotic. These two things can be mutually exclusive. One can be patriotic and express concern, provide or offer constructive criticism, etc. BO is not doing this -- BO is being unpatriotic.

I'm way too ignorant of the thousands of places on Earth to make any accurate assessment of what "the best place on Earth" is. As are most people in the world. Though, America is one of the best, I'm sure.

I don't have to eat crap to know I would prefer human food to crap.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Were regular Germans during Nazi rule "still proud to be Germans" or should they have been ashamed? Just something to think about.

Godwin's Law!

I pronounce this thread finished!

[HashiriyaS14]

BO isn't saying that -- he is saying he isn't proud, is embarassed, etc.

Ok, but that's not what you said.

This is what you said:

This time he said it is not the America it can be or once was or something to that effect.

I would, in fact, agree with this statement. I do not think that we are as great as we once were and certainly not as great as we could be. That doesn't make us NOT a great nation, but I share in BO's appraisal that we are not living up to our collective potential.

[audtatious]

Unfortunately for us, the America he want's it to be is not what I believe the founders would want America to turn into.

[HashiriyaS14]

Unfortunately for us, the America he want's it to be is not what I believe the founders would want America to turn into.

And I suppose we'll see whether or not a majority of the population agrees with you.