Which Car Would You Choose For A Rally Build?

[Mr1der]

seriously though, first gen Neon.

you can get a 5 speed twin cam pretty freakin' cheap and all things considered, you won't care about the interior falling apart, they were actually pretty reliable little cars with a great chassis.

[IanS]

seriously though, first gen Neon.

you can get a 5 speed twin cam pretty freakin' cheap and all things considered, you won't care about the interior falling apart, they were actually pretty reliable little cars with a great chassis.

As much as I hate to say it, James is right.

The 1G Neons once stripped can be quick, and changing a transmission is so easy its funny (dont ask how I know), plus they are plentiful, and cheap.

For the privateer cheap and easy to fix are much more important than pure speed.

[zacmil]

for starting out get like a 97 escort. you can find parts for cheap all day long for those bad boys. My mom has one and its pretty quick for what it is. i think its a 2.3 her car has all manual windows and so its pretty much ready to go do starter rallys in stock form. and just see what breaks and make that better.

Also a 1997 Mazda Protege being that it is the same platform, not sure all the parts are the same but they may be similar.

You have to do 2wd before you can go for AWD.

X2

Fords are great. My first car was a 98 Contour with a 2.5L V6. The thing was super quick (for what it was) and held up to much more abuse than it ever should have. But... I know you want something RWD, so my opinion is pretty pointless.

[IanS]

X2

Fords are great. My first car was a 98 Contour with a 2.5L V6. The thing was super quick (for what it was) and held up to much more abuse than it ever should have. But... I know you want something RWD, so my opinion is pretty pointless.

Yuck. The contours with the Duratec are horrible cars. I have to work on them pretty regularly at work, I have yet to work on one that any normal person can afford to maintain.

They are acceptable cars until they reach 80 or 90K miles, then they literally fall apart. I wouldnt wish one of those death traps on even my worst enemies.

The escort/protege, while similar to the neon in some ways, is not as suited to rally. If only for the shear fact that it has not really been done much before, and the aftermarket is just not there.

[flohtingPoint]

The escort/protege, while similar to the neon in some ways, is not as suited to rally. If only for the shear fact that it has not really been done much before, and the aftermarket is just not there.

What aftermarket? You can run one in stock class just fine. Throw some inserts on it, fab your own front sway and grab a spare set of wheels and you're ready to go.

[IanS]

The escort/protege, while similar to the neon in some ways, is not as suited to rally. If only for the shear fact that it has not really been done much before, and the aftermarket is just not there.

What aftermarket? You can run one in stock class just fine. Throw some inserts on it, fab your own front sway and grab a spare set of wheels and you're ready to go.

Stick to autocrossing.

[troskinatior]

loled

[flohtingPoint]

What aftermarket? You can run one in stock class just fine. Throw some inserts on it, fab your own front sway and grab a spare set of wheels and you're ready to go.

Stick to autocrossing.

I co-drove 6 rallycrosses this year alone, winning my class three times. How many did you get to this year? None? 1? Stick to the garage son.

[IanS]

Stick to autocrossing.

I co-drove 6 rallycrosses this year alone, winning my class three times. How many did you get to this year? None? 1? Stick to the garage son.

You know what the difference between rallycross and real rally is? Everything.

I will retract my previous statement, and replace it with.... Stick to cone dodging, leave the real racing to us men.

[troskinatior]

Get your popcorn ready

[flohtingPoint]

I co-drove 6 rallycrosses this year alone, winning my class three times. How many did you get to this year? None? 1? Stick to the garage son.

You know what the difference between rallycross and real rally is? Everything.

I will retract my previous statement, and replace it with.... Stick to cone dodging, leave the real racing to us men.

Really? How much "real rally" did you do this year? When you win anything, feel free to wake me up. I already took home my first time trial trophy this year and next year will have a north eastern championship under my belt where as your car will still be sitting in the garage and you'll be sitting here, pretending to have seat time in "real racing".

Men have wins.

[IanS]

Really? How much "real rally" did you do this year? When you win anything, feel free to wake me up. I already took home my first time trial trophy this year and next year will have a north eastern championship under my belt where as your car will still be sitting in the garage and you'll be sitting here, pretending to have seat time in "real racing".

You like talking about your trophy dont you?

You're right, my car sits in the garage, waiting for me to finish it, both for lack of time, and lack of money. Supporting a family is difficult on a single income, thank you for reminding me of that, I'll remember it if we ever meet.

That being said, just because my car isn't ready, does not mean others are not. While you are out trying to win trophies to impress your friends, I have been marshalling for National and Regional events, Servicing for other teams, and trying to better the sport as a whole.

Im not going to argue with you any more, we have trashed the thread enough. Besides, its obvious to me that you know no more about stage rally then you could have gleaned from playing Dirt 2 for hours on end.

Good night.

[flohtingPoint]

Really? How much "real rally" did you do this year? When you win anything, feel free to wake me up. I already took home my first time trial trophy this year and next year will have a north eastern championship under my belt where as your car will still be sitting in the garage and you'll be sitting here, pretending to have seat time in "real racing".

You like talking about your trophy dont you?

You're right, my car sits in the garage, waiting for me to finish it, both for lack of time, and lack of money. Supporting a family is difficult on a single income, thank you for reminding me of that, I'll remember it if we ever meet.

That being said, just because my car isn't ready, does not mean others are not. While you are out trying to win trophies to impress your friends, I have been marshalling for National and Regional events, Servicing for other teams, and trying to better the sport as a whole.

Im not going to argue with you any more, we have trashed the thread enough. Besides, its obvious to me that you know no more about stage rally then you could have gleaned from playing Dirt 2 for hours on end.

Good night.

You ask anyone that knows me, winning is all that matters, so yes, I like talking about my time trial trophy, or my 3 FTD's, or my regional championship, or my 15 class wins; all of which is just this year.

We all have problems with finances, stand in line. You dont need a car to partake, you can always make friends and co-drive, which is what I did for rallycross and 10 autocrosses this year when my own car died. With your winning charm, it shouldn't be hard.

I work flagging and comm for SCCA Club Racing, it's also on my regional license. Got the uniform to go with it too. You're not special.

I'm fairly uncertain what I did to irk you, but honestly kid, you're barking up the wrong tree here if you want to compare seat time/knowledge. I get more done in a month than you've had your whole life. I've been on tracks all over the world, and paid my dues crafting my trade.

[IanS]

You ask anyone that knows me, winning is all that matters, so yes, I like talking about my time trial trophy, or my 3 FTD's, or my regional championship, or my 15 class wins; all of which is just this year.

We all have problems with finances, stand in line. You dont need a car to partake, you can always make friends and co-drive, which is what I did for rallycross and 10 autocrosses this year when my own car died. With your winning charm, it shouldn't be hard.

I work flagging and comm for SCCA Club Racing, it's also on my regional license. Got the uniform to go with it too. You're not special.

I'm fairly uncertain what I did to irk you, but honestly kid, you're barking up the wrong tree here if you want to compare seat time/knowledge. I get more done in a month than you've had your whole life. I've been on tracks all over the world, and paid my dues crafting my trade.

You want to know what irks me, yet you are the one who seems to be holding the monopoly on getting upset. Not only resorting to calling me names, but also implying that I dont have any friends, and repeatedly trying to assert your dominance over me by trying to remind everyone again and again how good at winning you are. Im sorry, but you have no right to be calling anyone a "kid" considering you are acting more childish than anyone in this thread. Grow up.

You keep talking about autocross, SCCA, track racing, and rallycross. Breaking news, everyone else is talking about stage rally, which you have repeatedly shown you know little to nothing about. Beginning when you refereed to "stock" class. Sorry to burst your bubble, but stage rally uses a different class structure, and completely different rule book than your beloved SCCA. Then, you tried to say that all that was required to build a rally car was some POS car, a strut bar, and a spare set of wheels. Hate to break it to you, but there is an endless list of parts that are required either by the rulebook, or necessity. Building a remotely competitive car can easily cost $10,000 - $15,000. Thats just to build a car capable of running safely in G2 (2 wheel driver, no turbochargers). Add in the fact that entrance fees can run as high as $1,200 for a weekend, and you have yourself an expensive hobby.

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2010_ ... e_Book.pdf

The Rally America rulebook. Since you seem to be striving to be a knowitall, then this information should help you on your way, that way you wont make this same mistake again. (See, I can play the name calling game too)

[flohtingPoint]

Breaking news, everyone else is talking about stage rally, which you have repeatedly shown you know little to nothing about. Beginning when you refereed to "stock" class. Sorry to burst your bubble, but stage rally uses a different class structure, and completely different rule book than your beloved SCCA. Then, you tried to say that all that was required to build a rally car was some POS car, a strut bar, and a spare set of wheels. Hate to break it to you, but there is an endless list of parts that are required either by the rulebook, or necessity. Building a remotely competitive car can easily cost $10,000 - $15,000. Thats just to build a car capable of running safely in G2 (2 wheel driver, no turbochargers). Add in the fact that entrance fees can run as high as $1,200 for a weekend, and you have yourself an expensive hobby.

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2010_ ... e_Book.pdf

The Rally America rulebook. Since you seem to be striving to be a knowitall, then this information should help you on your way, that way you wont make this same mistake again. (See, I can play the name calling game too)

Breaking news, you're the one with budget problems. Maybe if you stuck to rallycross you'd actually have a good deal of wheel time and could actually have something valid to talk about. Instead, you have little to no seat time and dont know a thing about performance driving due to such. You do a great job in the garage though, so, as previously stated, stick to that.

[troskinatior]

Id say the winner is Ian

[Mr1der]

I'd say it's counter productive to this thread.

knock it off kids.

[Pento240sx]

Yea common guys relax, now shake hands and let's continue with more information.

[IanS]

I'd say it's counter productive to this thread.

knock it off kids.

AHHHHH, BUT MOMMMMMMMMM!

Sorry james, ill drop it. I had tried to earlier, but being personally attached tends to rile a guy up.

Back to the discussion at hand.

My choice options for budget rally cars.
92-95 honda civic
Nissan 240sx
Mark 2 VW golf/jetta
1st gen Dodge neon
B13/B14 Nissan Sentra.
Saturn SL2.

If money were no option.
240Z
510
Mark 2 Toyota Supra
Evo 3
Early 70s porsche 911

[Mr1der]

the Focus isn't too bad a choice either for the cheap end.

it's not as cheap as a Neon though.

[Pento240sx]

So what are the main things that break in the S13 or what is their weakness? And what are the cheap options for any rally suspension?

[IanS]

the Focus isn't too bad a choice either for the cheap end.

it's not as cheap as a Neon though.

I know a couple of guys who compete in a focas. Apparantly they make decent rally cars once you get past the chassis issues. From what I've read the suspension pickup points are to weak. Nothing like dropping into the ditch and tearing an LCA clear off the car.

[IanS]

So what are the main things that break in the S13 or what is their weakness? And what are the cheap options for any rally suspension?

As far as weak points, the worst is the tension rod brackets, they can tear/bend very easilly. The other things are most of the control arm. This is actualy a good thing though. In a light accident if the control arms are too stiff, you risk damaging the subframes which are much more difficult to replace, also it puts more force into the wheel. You can limp back to service with a bent LCA, but if you rip it clean off, or shatter a wheel, you're in for some work.

As for suspension, there are quite a few options. Hotbits has an off the shelf coilover kit costing from about $1400, all the up into the mid mid $2000s for the inverted monotubes with external resiviors. Or you can go the route I did, and have a decent setup for around $1200. I plan to upgrade later, allowing me to keep the curent setup for spares. I plan to either do some mid to high level Hotbits, or possibly some entry lev DMS. There is also a guy out there who builds full custom coilovers based around a longer version of the inverted monotube bilstien damper I am currently running. They provide prodigious travel, with, a wide veriety of spring and damper settings. The benefit to the bilstiens, is they can be rebuint almost anywhere.

Sorry if my spelling sucks, I'm posting from my phone.

[srphoenix]

bugeye subie wrx, older evo if within price range, or all-trac celica if you can find one that hasn't already been crashed while rallying.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Ahhhh, hate to divert this thread but I couldn't resist!

Breaking news, you're the one with budget problems. Maybe if you stuck to rallycross you'd actually have a good deal of wheel time and could actually have something valid to talk about. Instead, you have little to no seat time and dont know a thing about performance driving due to such. You do a great job in the garage though, so, as previously stated, stick to that.

Says the guy currently living on a couch? Oh wait, I forgot, you said you splurge on food!

[Pento240sx]

I see, is there a cheaper way to go like spring, shock combo, because I read in a thread of a guy going with tokico shocks and 250lb springs? Also I was looking into some websites and found out that RX7 1st gen and 2nd gen, make really good rally cars and are kind of cheap too, but don't know of the weak points, what do u think?

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Coil-overs will allow you to better tune your car to the course conditions, and offer a wider range of spring rates and all that crap. You really don't want to cheap out in stage-rally.
I think Rod Millen fielded a bunch of RX-7's...

[IanS]

I see, is there a cheaper way to go like spring, shock combo, because I read in a thread of a guy going with tokico shocks and 250lb springs? Also I was looking into some websites and found out that RX7 1st gen and 2nd gen, make really good rally cars and are kind of cheap too, but don't know of the weak points, what do u think?

While a spring strut combo would work in theoryan where issues rise, is reliability. Nobody that I know of makes a front strut capable of dealing with the stresses of stage rally. They may be fine at the begining if a stagean but by the end they are overheated, and useless. A true monotube damper is your best friend.

If you are comfortable with welding, I would urge you to try modding your stock tubes to accept bilstiens. Push them up slightly, then just run stock, or maybe slightly heavier springs. You could gain a little ride height, stiffen things up, and come out with a cheap, decently reliable setup.

In truth height adjustability isn't all that important, every person I know just got the height where they wanted it, and its been there since. What really can benifit you, (if you know how to do it) would be adjustable dampening, so you can adapt for rougher stages.

As for RX7s, they have proven to be very copetitive in stage rally if built right. Just stay away from turbos, they kill what little reliability they have. They can also be rather thirsty, which comes into play with some of the longer streches between service/fuel stops. Weak points are very similar to the s chassis, thow iirc most older 7s have a solid rear axle. Solid axles are nice because how beefy they are. If you want to see some awesome RX7 videos, search youtube for Jake Himes. His FB was blazing fast, and he was a fantastic driver. Sadly he passed away a few years ago due to cancer. I serviced for him a few times, and he was a great guy. Another RX7 rallyist is Andrew Havis, he makes me want to build a rotory rally car, despite my love for nissan.

I have always thought that mating the 2.0 from a newer miata with an early rx7 could yeild a very competitive and reliable race car.