It is starting to snow in Chicago so I want to prepare the snow driving. When should I use the snow mode? I remember when the sales explain the EX to me she told me that the EX will operate in RWD most of the time. As soon as the car detect wet, slip, snow, etc the AWD will kick in. Is this true? I use to drive a Xterra I will trun on the 4x4 when it is snowing. So do I need to turn the snow mode on when it is snowing out?

I dont think she explained to you properly.....

Ex-35 always runs in 4-wheel when you start from a stop then it shifts power to the rear when your car has momentum. 99% of the times the all the power is transfered to the rear and all wheel drive only activates if it notices that you have lost traction. One way of testing all wheel drive is when you accelerate hard in corners theres a light that goes on on the dashboard to indicate that your sliding and that usually means all wheels drive activates and you can actually feel it.

Snow mode purpose is to reduce power ouput during acceleration in snow or slippery surfaces.

Least to say that you have no controll of the all wheel drive feature its all controlled by a computer.

I bought my EX-35 early this year end of april and 3 days into owning my car we had the last winter storm in calgary. I used to own a Mazda3 that almost killed me in 3 occasions 'coz of luck of truction. My experience in the snow with the Ex-35 was awesome even when you were loosing traction allwheel drive kicks in and all you have to do is direct the car the direction you want to go and it goes.

Enjoy your Ex-35

Hi,

Here is the whole story.

The Attesa awd system you have in your car is smart. It based on RWD and AWD kicks in when needed. However when you start your car it distributes power to all the wheels depending of the hard you accelerate how much power goes where. All said the Attesa can change from 0-100% RWD. None of the other AWD system capable to do this. Audi,bmw,saab, all behind us. Most they can do is 85% range.

So back to the topic. It starts AWD till 12 mph(19 kmh). Then it depends on the situation it turns either RWD or partially AWD if you dribve it hard it hangs in AWD longer. Depending from way too many sensors.

Once you hit the snow mode it turns into 4x4. Literally goes to 50/50. 50% of front and 50% of rear wheel. Same applies here too. Till 12 mph. Then it goes again the same rule. Depends from the sensors but mostly you go back to RWD. If the road is slippery it goes to AWD longer. As long as needed. Also cuts the throttle so you can not accelerate as hard and it starts from second gear for easy start.

Hope this helps to clear the sky.

I have Attesa for 3 winters now and they are the best. I only used snow mode maybe once or twice. If you are in city stop and go and the road is icy it is a good idea to use it. All you going to see most people still spinning the tires. But watch out you only see this from your mirrors.

zozo

Thansk for the quick reply. So I don't need to turn on the snow mode if I am driving on the highway. Let said there is a snow storm and I am driving on the highway, should I turn the snow mode on? I read the manual it said when the snow mode is on your shouldnt drive the car at high speed.

Hey,

No you don't have to turn on at all on HWY. If you have heavy foot it is good from the stop but other then that no need it. I personally don't use it. If you have no problem to start your car on snow or ice don't use it.

zozo

Coming from having owned 2 Subarus the AWD was a big selling point for me. I looked at EVERY small entry level SUV. Besides the RDX with it's "SH-AWD" the Infiniti was the best IMHO.

I will go on record saying that in actual snow the AWD system in these cars is not idea. IMHO Audi and Subaru have that field covered. This system will activiate once it detects slip....If you think that is logical you are wrong.

You want a system that is actively working to prevent slip. Subaru and Audi will both do this as they are constant AWD. Once they detect slip they will alter the power to gain traction. Their AWD system actually makes more sense and is very hard to argue against IMHO.

The system that Infiniti is using is IMHO rather good for mixed weather. You have the fun/handling/gas milage of RWD in the bad stuff and AWD (kind of) when you need it. It's more then enough to get through in what 90% of people will face. Snow tires will make this thing a monster bringing it up to almost perfect for 95% of people. There are still 5% of so that need more ground height then this vehicle has to offer.

The "Snow mode" per my understanding disables at 12 or 18MPH. So turning the switch on at highway speeds would be pointless.

I've had my Subaru WRX STI with snow tires in some very very bad weather. It handled like a sports car on dry pavement. I think I'd be hard pressed to have the same come from the EX's system but I do not expect to be "trapped in" either with it.

I know I won't change your mind but here is my view. AWD system like subaru or audi has with same performance kills the mpg. You don't need the awd system all the time. Also if you have only one wheel slip AWD will keep spinning all the wheels. While the smart awd system with VDC holds it back if needed even with brake to spin the tires and distribute more power to other tires.

If you own the EX you know you don't feel when the AWD kicks in. It is damn fast and I don't think the EX is tuned as some others with Attesa.

Couple of other things. Subaru's best is the STI. Which is a good car but nothing extraordinary performance wise.

Lets see what Attessa has. GT-R, GT-R spec V in 2 weeks. Older GT-R's.Give me another 100% AWD system with under 4 liter engine,500 hp what beats the GT-R performance wise.

What you say makes sense if you live in a place where you drive in snow 80% of the time. Sorry not many people do that.

Why do you think most company going with the smart awd instead of the 100% awd?

Look at this and tell me why Subaru considering this.http://www.leftlanenews.com/su....html

zozo
Modified by zozoka1212 at 7:25 PM 11/18/2008

I'll agree to disagree. The Tribecca with AWD gets the same MPG with others in it's class. Along with the Legacy and the WRX. So MPG isnt a huge thing honestly.

The GTR is a nice machine. There are several other "super cars" with AWD to include Audi's R8 and even the 911's have options for it. Subaru's AWD system routinely handles 400+ WHP with a clutch upgrade in the STI.

As for your statements about the other companys going with it...it's a cost thing. You do get more MPG (slightly), less parts moving full time, and less wear and tear on the AWD parts with these "slip based" systems.

There are SEVERAL video's out there comparing the different AWD systems. Honda's CRV and Toyo's Rav4 are pure garbage compared to Audi/Subaru. Will a CRV or Rav4 get anyone stuck? Odds are no. Will it take more driver input to get out of a situation...yup. Other companies are going with it because most people can get by with it. Most people can also get by with a 4 cylinder engine, cloth interior, and AM/FM radio. Doesnt mean I want them in my car.

I also have to disagree with you on this one, Zozo. Maybe you've used ATESSA for 3 winters, but how many have you driven Audi Quattro or Subaru?

Until this EX, I'd driven Audi Quattro for the past 18 years. I've also owned Subaru in parallel for the past 10 years (and my latest, 2005 Suby Legacy GT Limited, is still in my garage). Suffice it to say I have ample experience in both - and yes, always with winter tires.

Having only owned this ATESSA system since April, I'm already noticing how it's much less driver-friendly and how more intrusive its electronic nannies can be. No matter what technology and how many sensors are employed, the proof is in the performance ... on that key point, I find it lacking, as I've expressed here:zer...viour

As for the "mostly RWD and AWD only when you need it" claimed advantage, it might be nice marketing, but ... a) I've noticed no better gas mileage than my twin-turbo V6 Audi S4 (and don't even compare it to my 4-cyl turbo Suby), and b) the promise of superior handling characteristics doesn't wash either I'm afraid, as any of my past Audi's and even my current Subaru (wagon!) are noticeably superior in that department. In fact, C&D Apr '08 issue reported understeer in the EX35 as "EXCESSIVE" (on a scale of MINIMAL-MODERATE-EXCESSIVE).

Hey, don't get me wrong - I like MANY of this car's other features. I'm just not happy with the way it shifts and how it puts power to the ground (which includes all its electronics working in concert).

I will reserve final judgment until I've had a whole winter with it, but so far, I'm disappointed.

That's my $0.02,David

As a previous Audi quattro owner I agree with dividedhighway on this. The AWD in the EX is good but not great. I was out driving it hard this evening in the snow and with new Blizzak rubber. The vehicle handles well, is nicely balanced, but the electronics are a little intrusive. On many other features, and definitely on value, the EX beats comparable Audi lines in my opinion.

LOL

Not sure where you guys got the idea. I said in my first post the system is better than Audi's I did not say it is better in snow.

zozoka1212 wrote:
The Attesa awd system you have in your car is smart. It based on RWD and AWD kicks in when needed. However when you start your car it distributes power to all the wheels depending of the hard you accelerate how much power goes where. All said the Attesa can change from 0-100% RWD. None of the other AWD system capable to do this. Audi,bmw,saab, all behind us. Most they can do is 85% range. zozo

Other thing I think you guys making a mistake to compare Audi quatro to EX. You can compare 07+ G35X with it tho. Being said EX rides higher tuned different than the G and different wheelbase different tires,Weight disributions, tire sizes, etc, etc, The EX won't give you the same sporty caracterism what the G can give you neither on dry road or wet/snowy road.

Dave with all my respect. You making a mistake to compare EX to your suby and audi in any way(mpg,performance). They are not in the same class. You can compare the audi q7 my friend gets around 15-16 mpg on hwy. Not sure what the subaru tribeca gets. Don't know anybody who has one. Most likely not better then 18-19mpg.

There was a comparason between awd cars the 335XI and the 4 matic was in it too.

It was done here in Canada. 335i kills the g35 in performance. The g35x kills the 335xi and 4 matic. I know it is not Audi but you can't really compare the cars for few reason. Need to see what they are capable to do with and without the AWD system. That's why this was so good. They tested the 335i vs g35 and they tested the g35x vs 335Xi.

Test like this tells you how well the awd system works.

Also there are few tests done g35 vs g35x. g35x had the stock all season tires on.Took me a bit to find it."Rear Drive vs. All-Wheel Drive: That Is the Question

For fun, we brought a rear-drive Infiniti G35 to our autocross and compared it with its all-wheel-drive G35x brother, in both wet and dry conditions with VDC yaw control switched off. We assumed the rear-driver would be quicker in the dry, given its ability to hang out its tail and help the driver tighten his line. But in the wet, we were confident the all-wheel-driver would have a tremendous advantage, hooking up better out of turns. Here's what we learned:

Well, we were wrong on one front, right on the other. Based on group average times on the dry autocross, the awd G35x proved itself faster, surprising us with its rear-biased manners and lapping nearly a second (0.9 sec.) quicker than the rear-drive G35. In the wet the G35x fared even better, 1.3 sec. quicker than the rear-drive G35.

Credit goes to the electronically controlled awd system, which maintains a rear-drive bias while endowing the car with improved stability. Don't get us wrong, the G35x still liked to hang its tail out, but the driver didn't need to be quite so careful with the throttle to keep the car's back end in check. In the rear-drive G35, the driver had to be far less aggressive with the throttle (and quicker with corrections) to post respectable times. Wet or dry, the awd G35x was far easier to drive quickly.

The G35x's center diff is responsible. From 0 to 10 mph, its electromagnetic wet clutch splits the torque 25 percent front/75 percent rear for good grip off the line; thereafter, the car is 100-percent rear drive until rear-wheel slip is sensed. Then, the diff can send as much as 50 percent of the power forward. Although other awd systems will produce different results, the G35x proves that all-wheel drive, properly applied, can give you the best of both worlds. — Andrew Bornhop"

There are big differences between the EX and G35X. I test drove an EX before I trade my 07 G to an 08G. There was few reasons I ended up in the 08 G. The drive was just not as sporty and the rear seat room felt small. Not sure if it is actually smaller but felt like it.

Sorry if I rolled everybody's life here. Just wanted to share my .02. Maybe next time I will be more carefull. Oh well.

zozo


Modified by zozoka1212 at 7:06 AM 11/20/2008

302@12psi wrote:The GTR is a nice machine. There are several other "super cars" with AWD to include Audi's R8 and even the 911's have options for it. Subaru's AWD system routinely handles 400+ WHP with a clutch upgrade in the STI. .

That is exactly what I tried to point out.

Perfect example.

Audi r8. V10 5.0 engine. 500 hp 3500lbs Audi AWD 0-60 = 4 seconds best. Mostly they are getting 4.2 sec.GT-R v6 3.7 engine 480 hp 3800lbs Attesa AWD 0-60 = 3.5 and sometimes even 3.3. The base model the spec V is going to be lighter and faster. It will push a little over 500 hp. They have been testing it in Germany. They say it should be really close to 3 sec from 0-60.

Let see what the Audi has less weight and bigger engine more hp more torque. So where they fail. (It is not really a fail but you get the point.) Your attesa in the EX sure not as good as the GT-r spec but RS should have the best as the GT-r has the best.Sorry if it seems like I argue, I am not. I just wanted to point out.

zozo

There's no hard feelings it's an open discussion.

I have my feelings based off of my experiances...you are free to have yours.

If I lived in a snow belt...I wouldnt own this car based off of the information I've gathered.

For the Maryland climate where it's sunny 85% of the time, raining 10% and snowing 5% this car will suit me fine.

If I lived where it snowed on a regular bases....you CAN NOT go wrong with Subaru or Audi's system's.

I do agree comparing the performance feel of the EX to a car is not far. I do still feel however in a straight AWD comparision this system lacks compared to the others.

Better then most other offerings...but not on par with the "super" all wheel driver competitors.

Wow, thanks everyone for the input. I don't mean to start something like this. At first I just want to know when to use the snow mode and how I have a good understanding of the AWD system in my EX and other cars.

Bokingwen, Sorry it is my fault. I started it with my post. I shouldn't even be here.

302@12psiThat's how I base mine too. I had my first 4wd car in 89. It was a Lancia Delta special edition. I bought it used(totaled). Rebuilt it. That car is far beyond what most car capable to do these days. Include Suby. Do a searh on it. Mine was like the Lancia Delta S4 with "only" the Turbo no Double charger(supercharger/turbo).

Z

-simple answer: When it snows or is slippery

302@12psi wrote:There's no hard feelings it's an open discussion.

I couldn't agree more!! In fact, Zozo knows he's my favourite non-EX owner on this whole forum!!

302@12psi wrote:I have my feelings based off of my experiances...you are free to have yours.

And, this is the crux of it ... my opinions are also based on long-standing experiences with Audi/Suby variants and my initial experience with ATESSA tells me it's not performing "as well", which, I fully admit is my personal valuation (e.g. for my likes, the system intrudes too much, too early, so the driver has less control).

302@12psi wrote:If I lived where it snowed on a regular bases....you CAN NOT go wrong with Subaru or Audi's system's.

I do live where there can be an abundance of snow/ice. It was my decision to try Infiniti and I stand by it ... whether or not I go back to Audi or get another Suby when the time comes, it's too soon to tell.

302@12psi wrote:I do agree comparing the performance feel of the EX to a car is not far. (fair)

Just to be clear - I mentioned the performance aspect ONLY because there are those who suggest that the RWD bias gives better handling. I'm just saying I don't find that to be the case, not even compared to my Subaru station wagon.

Cheers,David

dividedhighw, im curious to see a report on how the car handles in the snow, whether you use the "snow" mode or not. The main reason i got rid of my Acura is because i wanted/ needed something that was AWD. i have driven my parents Tuscon and SantaFe in the snow without any problems. i am hoping that this car performs good if not better than those cars.

dividedhighw wrote:I couldn't agree more!! In fact, Zozo knows he's my favourite non-EX owner on this whole forum!!

LOL

We still have to get together for that beer. Maybe this year for the winter lube. I can take you out in my G and see the differences between thehandling on you EX and my G. LOL We can do as race on the ice. Everybody skating you and I driving. The ice would probably hold the cars.

ahahahah

I have to admit I am a little(too much) biased. I know the Audi and Subi are really good in snow. I just went with the overall ownership feeling(4 season). Also my experience is in the G not in the EX. LOL

zozo

Looks like good info for everyone! Bottom line, snow mode locks the AWD under 18 mph, and is useless at HWY speeds (system works automatically).

I agree that the information in this post is very good. Maybe I should updated the title to something like the EX AWD explaination.

zozoka1212 wrote:
That is exactly what I tried to point out.

Perfect example.

Audi r8. V10 5.0 engine. 500 hp 3500lbs Audi AWD 0-60 = 4 seconds best. Mostly they are getting 4.2 sec.GT-R v6 3.7 engine 480 hp 3800lbs Attesa AWD 0-60 = 3.5 and sometimes even 3.3. The base model the spec V is going to be lighter and faster. It will push a little over 500 hp. They have been testing it in Germany. They say it should be really close to 3 sec from 0-60.

Let see what the Audi has less weight and bigger engine more hp more torque. So where they fail. (It is not really a fail but you get the point.) Your attesa in the EX sure not as good as the GT-r spec but RS should have the best as the GT-r has the best.Sorry if it seems like I argue, I am not. I just wanted to point out.

zozo

So you are taking a new GT-R with a monkey driving safe "launch control" 0-60 time result and using that to base that the AWD system in the Infiniti is better?

It's not going to be an apple to apple discussion. I'm not sure what the powerband on the GTR looks like but I'll assume it doesnt make more torque down low then the R8. I'm assuming it's numbers are more towards the left of the chart while the R8 probably makes insane torque throughout.

So with that being said...where's the difference in the numbers?

You imply that it's because of the AWD system putting the power down better. I've obviously not driven either. I'd assume that the R8's 0-60 time is not due to tire spin or anything like that. I'd assume that it's probably because the GTR was using it's launch control.

I'll update this once I actually get my EX in the white stuff. I'm sure I wont be dissappointed...not sure I'll be overly impressed either.

I've had my WRX in some pretty bad stuff and it didnt skip a beat. That's a rather "tamed" system as far as electronics go. I've had my STI in some stuff that would side line many vehicles (I know because I passed a bunch in the median who spun out). The STI has more computers dictating where the power goes and also the DCCD which honestly was left in "Auto" or "Lock". Either way with proper tire/driving techniques you'd be hard pressed to lose traction in either unless you wanted to.

I'm going to assume...that I'll detect some tire spin in the EX due to the CPU in the car "catching up" with distributing the power. But then again who knows since it appears to be in AWD up to 18mph and I dont floor the vehicle past 18 mph in the snow/ice due to common sense.

I see your points through.

This thread smells like youtube with all the teens and their posts.

Sorry I am done here. I come to Nico to enjoy times and exchange infos. If I wan to argue I would just go for brain surgery to remove 98% of my brain and go to youtube.

zozo

OK - easy everyone ... take a breath!!

(Now, it's been a while since I've been mistaken for a teenager, so I'm personally OK with that!! )

That's fine; when you've had enough, walk away. On some occasions, not all participants finish at the same time - it's OK. (I think it was my 1st girlfriend that taught me that - sorry, you got me thinking the teenage thing still!) But please, there's no reason to be upset.

Be clear that no one here is "dissing" anybody. It's a fact that not every aspect of a car will fit everyone ... it isn't "one size fits all" pantyhose!!

If I'm a little grumpy that my new toy's AWD isn't doing what I had hoped, too bad for me. I still appreciate all its cool gadgets, and it's certainly no reflection on anyone who feels the ATESSA system is fine the way it is - perhaps even fits their needs perfectly. No problem!

There's more than enough room here for multiple points of view. It's all about experiences and expectations. We've all lived different lives so we all are different in this department - that's it, that's all.

Let's celebrate our differences and get back to having fun, OK?

(OK, I'm taking off my referee shirt now ...)

Cheers,David

Once again...I wasnt trying to ruffle any feathers...just express my thoughts on the situation.

Enjoy.

Just got home to Toronto after spending the weekend north at my ski cabin. There is incredible early season snow around Collingwood and I had plenty of opportunity to thrash the new EX with brand new Blizzaks on it. More than 2 feet of snow on the ground and lots of hard packed snow and ice on hilly country roads.My general impression were good. It was fairly easy to break out the rear under hard acceleration and then the VDC system would bring us back to where we should be. Spent most of the time in snow mode unless we were back on the dry highway.The highlight of the weekend was driving with my 2 teenage daughters. 17 yr old new driver was behind the wheel as we were going over the mountain to pickup a friend. -12 deg C and plowed snow over narrow gravel road. At one point, she drifted a little on to the right shoulder at about 60 kmh and we got pulled into the soft snow and half into the ditch. Normal AWD wouldn't get us out and the right side doors were deep in the snow. I asked my two daughters to get out to lighten the car. No go in snow mode and easy throttle. This was looking like a tow truck situation and there was no cell coverage. Switched off the VDC (mystery button down by your left knee) and was able to get the EX slowly moving forward without the ABS overide kicking in from wheel spin. After driving forward for about 40 metres with 2 wheels on the shoulder and 2 in the ditch I was able to get back on the road.

Good lesson for my girls on a dark cold night with no traffic. Good lesson for all of us: Snow mode and VDC off with snow tires and this thing is a tank!
Modified by BrokenTiller at 1:04 PM 11/23/2008

Thanks for sharing your experiences, and glad y'all got out OK!

What you're reporting is consistent with my own opinion so far ... with full recognition that less skilled drivers and moments of inattention can be helped by the electronic nannies, this seems to be further evidence that they can work against you in certain situations.

Cheers,David

I didn't know there is a button for the VDC I have to go home and find this button now. I only notice the there LDW button.

Brokentiller:

You said you spend most of the time with snow mode on, how fast were you driving when you have the snow mode on?

I had the car over 100kmh with snow mode on. Felt good and stable.Highway cruising at 120-140 with it off on dry pavement.

BrokenTiller wrote:I had the car over 100kmh with snow mode on. Felt good and stable.Highway cruising at 120-140 with it off on dry pavement.

Snow mode shuts off at around 12 mph, it was never on.