Used to work in motor oil marketing/advertising. The company I used to work for makes great products, but I didn't think it was appropriate to push for one or the other here.darylzero wrote:Wow! great post lne937s. Do you work in the oil industry?
Good informative input, thanks much!lne937s wrote:I don't want to take anything away from the Blackstone oil analysis report, it is a fantastic resource for measuring wear... However, your motor oil has to do many things that are not measured in the Blackstone test:
The reason I tend to concentrate on ILSAC is that it was created to simplify the multitude of manufacturer standards. Essentially, if it meets GF-5 (and dexos equivalent for GM vehicles) it meets the manufacturer standards of domestic and Japanese branded gasoline powered vehicles, as well as API, SAE and ASTM industry standards.szh wrote:Good informative input, thanks much!lne937s wrote:I don't want to take anything away from the Blackstone oil analysis report, it is a fantastic resource for measuring wear... However, your motor oil has to do many things that are not measured in the Blackstone test:
Yes, meeting the oil standard tests - for sure, at least the ones that the car manufacturer spec'ed - is quite important! In my 2003 M45, Infiniti specificed API oils specs(API SJ) that have been exceeded by pretty much all the oils on the market today.
The Mobil 1 0W-40 I use also meets the ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 specs - i.e., the ones used by high-end European car manufacturers, so it was one of the reasons I switched to it on my car after the first 10k miles were done.
I have not looked at the ILSAC specs, but will do so.
Z
However, not all oils meet the standard. To my knowledge, only API-licensed Royal Purple meets the standard. Many other expensive synthetic specialty brands also do not meet it. If it says "classic car" or "racing", in many cases it doesn't meet one or more parameters due to the lack of emissions systems and short drain intervals (oil life doesn't need to be as long, water doesn't build up, etc.) typical in the vehicles that are referenced.ILSAC, International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, is formed in 1992 by AAMA (American Automobile Manufacturers Association, representatives of DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation) and JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association) to define the need, parameters, licensing and administration of lubricant specifications. Together with the Tripartite system (API, SAE and ASTM) the formed EOLCS, the Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System. ILSAC oils often carry the API Service Symbol (Donut) including the Energy Conserving designation and/or API Certification Mark (Starburst).
Yup.MinisterofDOOM wrote: The real question is: what filter do I use.
Sorry for the delayed response, I have been in transit (in Narita at the moment). Regarding diesel oil vs. gasoline oil, I am not an expert, but I know there are a few differences. One is compatability with emissions systems, which may not make a difference on pre-emissions Datsuns. The other relates to the higher combustion temperature in diesel engines. To combat degradation of the oil from heat, there are special additives. In addition, motor oil is also designed to work with a certain level of exhaust gasses and unburnt fuel getting past the rings and into the oil. Due to the higher combustion temperature, untreated diesel exhaust has high levels of NOx. In addition, diesel fuel tends to have higher sulfur content than gasoline, which creates SO2. Just as NOx and SO2 create acid rain (nitric and sulfuric acid), they tend to degrade into acid in your oil-- diesel oil has an additive package designed to fight this... However, gasoline has its own issues, especially if blended with ethanol. Ethanol combustion puts water in your oil and GF-5 has been formulated to combat this. Diesel oil, due to the the lack of ethanol and typical duty cycle does not go as far to address the issues of water and white sludge. And oil diluted with diesel does not tend to have the same lubricating effect... If you are changing your oil regularly in a non-emissions car and use ethanol-free race/aviation fuel it may not make a difference... but I would naturally tend to use oil designed for gasoline vehicles in a car for general use...AZhitman wrote:Wow, great info! Thanks so much for chiming in!
Since you're here, and we're on the topic, I have several classic Datsuns. I have been using the Shell Rotella diesel oil in those, along with a ZDDP treatment. Since these cars don't get driven a ton, my oil change intervals are typically <1000 miles, every six months. Thoughts?
I've been a fan of the Castrol synthetic blend for our three turbocharged modern cars.
I looked into the ILSAC tests for Mobil 1. It appears that tthe 5W-30 weight of almost all the Mobil 1 full synthetics meet the ILSAC GF-5 and many of them also meet the Dexos specs from GM.lne937s wrote:The reason I tend to concentrate on ILSAC is that it was created to simplify the multitude of manufacturer standards. Essentially, if it meets GF-5 (and dexos equivalent for GM vehicles) it meets the manufacturer standards of domestic and Japanese branded gasoline powered vehicles, as well as API, SAE and ASTM industry standards.szh wrote:I have not looked at the ILSAC specs, but will do so.
Z
However, not all oils meet the standard. To my knowledge, only API-licensed Royal Purple meets the standard. Many other expensive synthetic specialty brands also do not meet it. If it says "classic car" or "racing", in many cases it doesn't meet one or more parameters due to the lack of emissions systems and short drain intervals (oil life doesn't need to be as long, water doesn't build up, etc.) typical in the vehicles that are referenced.ILSAC, International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee, is formed in 1992 by AAMA (American Automobile Manufacturers Association, representatives of DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation) and JAMA (Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association) to define the need, parameters, licensing and administration of lubricant specifications. Together with the Tripartite system (API, SAE and ASTM) the formed EOLCS, the Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System. ILSAC oils often carry the API Service Symbol (Donut) including the Energy Conserving designation and/or API Certification Mark (Starburst).
If you no longer work for that company, I don't see a conflict of interest exists anymore. Please feel free to mention them and the products ...lne937s wrote:Used to work in motor oil marketing/advertising. The company I used to work for makes great products, but I didn't think it was appropriate to push for one or the other here.darylzero wrote:Wow! great post lne937s. Do you work in the oil industry?
I would say "fresh oil is good oil".Bubba1 wrote:I find the Blackstone testing stuff quite interesting, but I'm wondering if at the end of the day, those differences are small enough that it will not impact how long the engine performs or lasts under ordinary use. Am I wrong to conclude that spending extra money to buy an oil that passes some additional standards beyond what's required by the manufacturer is unnecessary?
Would love to!PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Z- feel free to send me your used 0w-40 Mobil 1. I'll push it straight through the Honda (and the 240 truck)!
Not everyone is as cheap as you are ShamesPapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Sounds like you throw away a lot of money, unless your oil change interval is in the 10k+ range.
I suspect that is more likely the truth as well. I'm not that interested in trying their oil to find out though, because i'm not really convinced it's any better than what's on the shelf next to it. Amsoil is the only thing that I feel like that may have a chance of being any better, but I don't see enough proof with Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Redline to convince me that I should spend extra money on it.Bubba1 wrote:I strongly suspect the rumor about one should not switch to another brand after using Royal Purple was started by Royal Purple.
You can call it hype or voodoo black magic all you want, but aside from certain applications I fully believe that synthetic should always be used. If you're too cheap and willing to take a risk, then that's fine by me. If you think the cheap a** Wal-mart store brand oil is good enough for your vehicle then that doesn't bother me either. It's your vehicle and not mine.PapaSmurf2k3 wrote:Everyone thinks oil is some kind if black magic voodoo that doesn't make sense. It really isn't that complicated. There's a lot of marketing hype, but when you get down to it that's all it is. Hype.
Hence the purpose of this thread.
I'd love to see it if you can find it. Every scientific test I've seen seems to suggest that yes, its slightly better, but no, you don't really need the better characteristics unless:Kompresshun wrote:There is far more proof, voodoo or not that synthetic is worth the money though compared to dino oil or just cheap oil in general.