What's wrong with Jettas?

[PantherRacer]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...Image

too good to be true or is this legit?electrical problems?transmission problems?or can they just be sold for cheap?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Ahem...

1: Volkswagen2: gay3: bland4: ugly5: GERMAN ENGINEERING6: Volkswagen7: gay8: sludgetastic engine fun9: they're freaking gay

That about sums up what's wrong with Jettas.

Now, I don't use the word "gay" as a descriptor of non-human things often.But I tell you, the Jetta ranks as about a number 4 on my list of frighteningly effeminite cars. Right after the VW New Beetle, the Eclipse, and the Golf.

[The Mic]

The Volkswagen group (VAG):

* Audi (the former post-WWII Auto Union/DKW)—bought from Daimler-Benz in 1964. * NSU—bought in 1969 by Volkswagen's Audi division, a brand not used since 1977 * SEAT—majority owned since 1987 * Škoda—bought in 1991 * Bentley—bought in 1998 from Vickers along with Rolls-Royce * Bugatti—name bought in 1998 * Lamborghini —bought in 1998

[Mr1der]

jettas have always had horrible resale.

for a reason usually.

[Jesda]

The Wolfsburg is supposed to be a good car, made in Actual Germany by Actual Germans. But then I think of a thousand Freds in a VW factory swatting flies instead of installing brakes.

Anyway, the Jetta hasnt been much good since 1990, and even that car had some problems.

[240DRFT]

i think the previous jettas before the one in that auction are ok...ive always been into german cars as well as nissans, im a member on vwvortex too.

[PantherRacer]

I mean, the car is cheaper than anything I can afford on this island (including shipping )and it's got a turbo/it's clean/it's rare (over here) at least so I'd be able to sell it over here no problem. Yeah, I can get it, throw on a loud BOV, drive it around and get some young goon to buy it.

the problem is are the chances high that something will go wrong b4 I get to sell it to someone else?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

I hate to see this. Car for a dollar. how does the bidding REALLY end? that buy it now price is huge compared to the bidding price lol
Modified by PantherRacer at 11:25 PM 11/24/2005

[MinisterofDOOM]

Car bidding is always a sniper fest.Those auctions both have days left for bidding. The prices you see now won't last into the final days or hours.

Passat 1.8t.

Stupid german carmakers.

There's a reason the Altima outsells the Passat by a huge margin.Because they don't go cramming turboed QGs under the hood and expecting them to actually run properly.

[Bubba1]

Car bidding is always a sniper fest.Those auctions both have days left for bidding. The prices you see now won't last into the final days or hours.

Passat 1.8t.

Stupid german carmakers.

There's a reason the Altima outsells the Passat by a huge margin.Because they don't go cramming turboed QGs under the hood and expecting them to actually run properly.

they don't suck. They're well made cars, not gay at all. In fact there are even more people that consider winged underpowered japanese sporty coupes with obnoxious wings gay, so I suggest dumping the gay argument.

I thought about buying a new passat before deciding on an Altima. The man reasoh I passed on Passat was the cost of repair. Much more expensive to repair than an Altima. So if you intend to keep the car long after the warranty expires, or buying an older one out of warranty, that should be a consideration. I also believe Passat's run on premium fuel only.

I've driven many Veedubs, fun cars to drive, and comfortable.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The gay comments only apply to the more recent (I guess the last 2 generations...but I'm not sure as the bodystyles didn't change much) Jetta/Bora/Golf. There's just something overtly feminine about it that overwhelms the senses, and really drives me away from them. It's the same effect as a bright pink room--yet somehow more subtle.It's not present in the Passat.The NEWEST Passat, though, is ugly. As is the new Jetta/Bora/Golf which looks like a damn Corolla. No experience with them personally, though. All I know is they used to be terribly dull and mildly ugly (at least the J/B/G) and now they're mildly dull and terribly ugly.

I was actually somewhat of a fan of the last gen Passat with the larger engines (though not the troublesome WR8). Not as dull looking as it's smaller counterparts, and much much nicer inside. I just think it's amusingly stupid that they offer such tiny engine options.

I'd still never own one. I've dealt second-hand with too many troublesome german cars to ever own one (a newer one anyway...a classic oval-backlight Beetle or a Microbus would rock).

As for the Wolfsburgs...my friend's got an 85 WB Jetta that's a great car.I love the dash layout on it...everything is arranged horizontally along the top edge of the dash, instead of the cascading center console style found on virtually every car made in the last 20 years.

[The Mic]

they don't suck. They're well made cars, not gay at all. In fact there are even more people that consider winged underpowered japanese sporty coupes with obnoxious wings gay, so I suggest dumping the gay argument.

I thought about buying a new passat before deciding on an Altima. The man reasoh I passed on Passat was the cost of repair. Much more expensive to repair than an Altima. So if you intend to keep the car long after the warranty expires, or buying an older one out of warranty, that should be a consideration. I also believe Passat's run on premium fuel only.

I've driven many Veedubs, fun cars to drive, and comfortable.

I concur.

[nchopp]

I don't care for the looks, but the recent Jettas are fun to drive. Got a buddy from college that had one, not a bad little car.

Now, one of my roommates has an '84 VW Rabbit GTI - now THAT'S a fun car.

[PantherRacer]

I see

[Bubba1]

Now, one of my roommates has an '84 VW Rabbit GTI - now THAT'S a fun car.

A good friend of mine is in process of acquiring an 89 Rallye Golf, Black on black (factory AWD supercharged rally car), very rare. Veedubs are fun cars.

As far as the styling goes, I think most of the German makes are making homely styled cars nowadays From Audi's "big mouth bass" front grill, to BMW's "pontiac overstyling" nonsense in the Bangle era. I agree the newest Veedub models are not that attractive.but before you condemn them, you really oughta drive one. Trust me, you won't call them gay. Very competent cars.

[PantherRacer]

I mean, a turbo jetta sounds nice to me right now...hell anything with a turbo sounds very nice lol

[Jesda]

Quality? Gayness? How about VW's awful dealer network, backed by a national organization that doesnt give a s***?

[skydragoness]

The guy in the 240 forum, bryanmenard, owns a Wolfsburg Jetta and a S13. He did a whole spiel about what sucks about the Jetta, the maintenance costs and that they are too delicate. Everything breaks, they use Euro-spec bulbs, they can't take boost, they have weak clutches, etc. He pretty much summed it up as its an ok car if you don't plan on driving it in a spirited fashion.

[S14 boy]

I love VWs, i love how all the different engines are interchanable, and they just don't die! I mean, my bud had a 86 Fox that just would not die, and beleive me we tried. Check out my best freind's 88 8v build up, http://squirrelracing.cjb.net/ go to "projects" and look at the gallery, for pics!!

hey 240drft, whats you sn on vortex??

[240DRFT]

uh its oranges_r_mmm

i remember i was eating a orange the day i signed up lol best orange ever! are u on there whats your name? u probably dont recognize my sn cuz i only have a few hundred posts.

[97ka-t]

ahahhaahhaa that made me laugh out loud - come over to the new 'how many' thread!

[Rex]

Quality? Gayness? How about VW's awful dealer network, backed by a national organization that doesnt give a s***?

Drivers wanted .. repairs optional.

[Bubba1]

Drivers wanted .. repairs optional.

A lotta people when they think of Veedubs, think fondly of the old rabbit and old beetle, which were essentially bullet-proof, well engineered, simple, little cars. The newer ones are far more complex, and therefore more prone to breaking down, especially after 4-5 years of ownership.And it's not really that they're fragile. They're actually quite durable, it's just when they do break, it shocking how expensive they are to fix, as compared to a Japanese equivalent

So add a young, inexperienced ,spriited driver (who will be rougher on a car than most) on a tight budget with a complex car and the end result is several expensive repairs. Then lump a few of these large repairs together, and those same young people will scream "lemon". Sound familiar?

As far as the Veedub dealers, I think it's a mixed bag. Some are good, some bad. You can really say that about almost every make. The local Veedub dealers near my home have a pretty good reputation.

I know a bunch of Veedub owners thru the Audi club. They can be very fun, rewarding cars if you are very good in your approach to maintenance/operation. I personally enjoy driving them. The downside to Veedub ownership is that although they're well engineered cars, they are not necessarily designed to be repaired easily. Audi's are notorious for that too (what a coincidence that they're also owned by Veedub). The japanese makes are more thoughtfully designed in that respect. You will also find there are certain items that only a dealer can do, which is part of the bad rap that VW gets. For example, on a new Passat, you need an expensive tool just to check the automatic transmission fluid level, so most independant mechanics will not invest spend big bucks for that tool, just to work on a couple of Passats. In all likelihood, You'll end up having to deal directly with the dealer, which is how Veedub designed them. The auto transmission fluid is also quite expensive, fyi.

I think as a new car, Veedubs are a good choice. Heck, Consumer Reports ranks them pretty highly. But if you're young, with limited funds, and into spirited driving, I don't think a Jetta/Passat is the best choice. Don't let the low price snare you, as the first repair can quickly gobble up the savings.

I hope that makes sense.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Your defense comparing old to new is valid.

BUT, "complexity justifies poor reliability" is rot.ALL cars are more complex now.And Volkswagen still demonstrates an inordinately bad number of issues in its cars.You won't find iVTEC hondas, direct injection VGs, or other ultra-technological japanese engines failing. My bizarro 2-plugs-per-cylinder early FORD electronic ignition system in my old Ranger never demonstrated any issues. It was very advanced in its day.IF everyone else can do it, why can't Volkswagen?

One of my big beefs is VW pricing. If they were cheap, you could justify their quality issues...they could be the "Hyundai" of the eurocar world.But volkswagen is far from cheap. In fact, just the opposite--they're rather overpriced. A fully equipped Passat ends up costing more than a fully equipped Maxima...and the Passat is SMALLER.Pay more for less quality, less fun, and bland looks? No, thanks!

Also, Consumer Reports is grade-A s***, plain and simple.

[Bubba1]

Your defense comparing old to new is valid.

BUT, "complexity justifies poor reliability" is rot.ALL cars are more complex now.

True, but the Germans have taken complexity a full leap forward. BMW's i-drive, for example, is a technogical terror. An S class Mercedes seat, which is both heated and air conditioned, has 37 separate electrical motors to operate it. that's inaddition to being computer controlled to multiple preset settings. Compare it to an Sclass seat of 20 years ago, and there's a big reason why MB's have been having so many electrical problems. Veedub's 4 motion is essentially the Quattro system, which is complex by itself.

And Volkswagen still demonstrates an inordinately bad number of issues in its cars.

And yet they seem to have far fewer government ordered recalls than Ford or GM. Ford has recalled 500,000 cars/trucks in just the last 2 weeks alone.

You won't find iVTEC hondas, direct injection VGs, or other ultra-technological japanese engines failing. My bizarro 2-plugs-per-cylinder early FORD electronic ignition system in my old Ranger never demonstrated any issues. It was very advanced in its day.IF everyone else can do it, why can't Volkswagen?

No argument, the Japanese make excellent engines IMHO. One of the reasons why I own them. Your old Ranger may have served you well, but they had a reputation for being among the more unreliable pickups in their class. VW cars have as much complexity as any other make.

One of my big beefs is VW pricing. If they were cheap, you could justify their quality issues...they could be the "Hyundai" of the eurocar world.But volkswagen is far from cheap. In fact, just the opposite--they're rather overpriced. A fully equipped Passat ends up costing more than a fully equipped Maxima...and the Passat is SMALLER.

If you live in the northeast, VW of america has been discounting the hell out their cars for many years. I could have purchased a comparably equipped 4 cyl Passat for about the same price as a 4 cyl Altima. Gotta compare apples to apples. The most expensive part of VW ownership comes after you buy them. That's the point I wanted to make.

Pay more for less quality, less fun, and bland looks? No, thanks!

Actually if you compare them side to side with a Nissan, which I have done, you'll find the build quality if the VW is slightly better than Nissan. It's true. And they are no less fun to drive than any Nissan. But I gotta agree with you about the looks. I obviously chose to buy a Nissan over a VW as there were more things I liked about the Nissan more than the VW, but I don't consider VW is a bad car.

Also, Consumer Reports is grade-A s***, plain and simple.

Gotta disagree here too. I find most of their reportings right on target, as I drive a lot of different cars both on the track and street. Not only is CR unbiased, they accept no advertising dollars, and their reliability ratings are based on owner surveys (thousands of them). I also have a friend who's one of their testers. Those guys know what they're talking about.

Perhaps you can give an example of why they're plain and simple grade A s***.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Perhaps you can give an example of why they're plain and simple grade A s***.

The fact that a very reliable, sturdy, low-cost-maintenance car will score high, but a very reliable, sturdy, low-cost-maintenance FUN car will score terribly low. Every review they write makes me think they've got something against cars that are enjoyable to drive, and more than just utilities. They're the kind of idiots who complain about "harsh ride" instead of realizing they're driving a damn sports car, and it's actually impressive suspension work. They refuse to look beyond the very outer surface of any car, and when a car demonstrates anything deeper than that, it gets a terrible review.

They are also very known for nitpicking at stupid issues ("the radio dial is in a bad spot") while utterly ignoring big ones (excellent trunk space, a well-behaved auto trans, decent power at any rpm in any gear...).

When I see cars like the Camry continuously outscoring everything else in the magazine, I cannot help but wonder just how much of their salaries are paid by their high scorers.

[Bubba1]

The fact that a very reliable, sturdy, low-cost-maintenance car will score high, but a very reliable, sturdy, low-cost-maintenance FUN car will score terribly low. Every review they write makes me think they've got something against cars that are enjoyable to drive, and more than just utilities. They're the kind of idiots who complain about "harsh ride" instead of realizing they're driving a damn sports car, and it's actually impressive suspension work. They refuse to look beyond the very outer surface of any car, and when a car demonstrates anything deeper than that, it gets a terrible review.

They are also very known for nitpicking at stupid issues ("the radio dial is in a bad spot") while utterly ignoring big ones (excellent trunk space, a well-behaved auto trans, decent power at any rpm in any gear...).

When I see cars like the Camry continuously outscoring everything else in the magazine, I cannot help but wonder just how much of their salaries are paid by their high scorers.

I can answer that. Zero. Their salaries are paid entirely thru subscriptions and raffles. They are non profit and take ZERO advertising dollars from manufacturers. That's about as unbiased as you can get. My friend at CR is an active Audi club member, and a former board member. I've spent a lot of track time with him. He's very much an enthusiast. But you'll notice Audi's are not even on their list of recommended cars. They are very fair. By the way, they test fun cars too, and they recommend the S2000, Miata, and 350Z. Surprised?

Their testing methods are very scientific and consistent. their tests don't change. They examine all the same things in every car. They also purchase cars from dealers under employee names, unlike the main stream automags that get supplied free by the manufacturers, who have time to primp and prepare the cars. The reason that boring cars like Camry's do well at CR is because they're well made, well designed, comfortable, reliable, handle well, and the overwhelming majority of owners that respond to their surveys report very few problems. I guess they suck because they're not "fun"?

The emphasis of their reports is on the ownership experience, not 0-60 or how many G's they pull on a skid pad. To me, CR's reporting is much more relevant if you're looking to buy a new or used car, even a sports car.

I enjoy the rare opportunity to take my friend to task about their reports. We had an interesting discussion on the 2003 350z as he knew I had purchased one. I found my self agreeing with him with many of their opinions. For example, the staffers all pretty much loved the engine, and it's handling, but it got knocked for skimpy interior materials and a jarring ride on the street with the 18"wheels. Guess what, that's absolutely true.

I think the highest scoring cars they've had were a Lexus 430 and BMW 5 series. Not a boring Camry, sorry.

[PoorManQ45]

I personally think the Jetta doesn't look bad once you install a classy brushed set of 17~18in wheels and a good set of tires on it, and a 1~2 inch drop to eliminate wheel gap

[PoorManQ45]

So add a young, inexperienced ,spriited driver (who will be rougher on a car than most) on a tight budget with a complex car and the end result is several expensive repairs. Then lump a few of these large repairs together, and those same young people will scream "lemon". Sound familiar?

What do you consider "spirited"?

Hopefully you're not getting mixed up between abusive and spirited. An example of the difference would be, abusive = dropping the clutch at peak torque RPM, spirited = shifting at redline.

The car WILL fail if you abuse it. If you drive spirited with no abuse(redlining is NOT abuse) the car should NOT fail. If it does, there is something wrong with one of the vital engine systems

You will also find there are certain items that only a dealer can do, which is part of the bad rap that VW gets. For example, on a new Passat, you need an expensive tool just to check the automatic transmission fluid level, so most independant mechanics will not invest spend big bucks for that tool, just to work on a couple of Passats. In all likelihood, You'll end up having to deal directly with the dealer, which is how Veedub designed them. The auto transmission fluid is also quite expensive, fyi.

It's a good thing that you don't need to check the LEVEL of the transmission fluid. Before for you go off, you have to remember that the transmissions fluid system is a CLOSED loop system. Not like the engine oil system. THe ONLY way for fluid to get out is through a leak. Unless you part on dirt, mulch, or grass you *should* be able to spot leaking fluid imediately. So no need to check the level of the fluid. And when you change the fluid, all you have ot do is measure the amount that came out, and that's the amount you should put back in.

[gabossie]

Yeah, just estimate how much transmission fluid is in that spot on the driveway, with a percentage factor for fluid lost while driving, and in other peoples driveways, and when you park in the street, or at the supermarket... yeah, should be right on

[PoorManQ45]

Like I said, the only way for the transmission fluid to get out of the loop is via a leak.

I have had a TINY leak on the Q's transmission. It turned out to be the drain c***. I was able to spot this instantly by the SINGLE drop on the bolt.

How many NORMAL car owners do you think actually pull out the transmission dipstick to begin with? Just looking where you parked the car is a much easier way to spot leaks