What's wrong with Jettas?

[Jesda]

CR's reporting is only relevant for anyone who expects their car to do nothing more than start, move, and stop. Sorry, I'll stick with Automobile Magazine's long term tests. Theres too many subjective factors in vehicle ownership and satisfaction to rank them the way you would a toaster.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I guess they suck because they're not "fun"?

YES

[Bubba1]

What do you consider "spirited"?

Hopefully you're not getting mixed up between abusive and spirited. An example of the difference would be, abusive = dropping the clutch at peak torque RPM, spirited = shifting at redline.

The car WILL fail if you abuse it. If you drive spirited with no abuse(redlining is NOT abuse) the car should NOT fail. If it does, there is something wrong with one of the vital engine systems

Hello, Any car will fail if you abuse it enough. I didn't think it was necessary to explain the definition of spirited driving. But okay, how about "consistently operating the car harder than is neccessary".

It's a good thing that you don't need to check the LEVEL of the transmission fluid. Before for you go off, you have to remember that the transmissions fluid system is a CLOSED loop system. Not like the engine oil system. THe ONLY way for fluid to get out is through a leak. Unless you part on dirt, mulch, or grass you *should* be able to spot leaking fluid imediately. So no need to check the level of the fluid. And when you change the fluid, all you have ot do is measure the amount that came out, and that's the amount you should put back in.

Well, a complete moron would ignore checking the automatic transmission fluid when it is part of the maintenance program spelled out in the OWNERS MANUAL. Make sense buddy? So what if it's closed loop system?So are the oil , cooling, and air conditioning. All are designed not to leak,but at some point they might. If the owners manual recommends checking, you check it.

My point was VW designed their newer cars so that the dealer will get an better opportunity to do the major scheduled service work. Pretty slick IMHO. Most owners do not closely inspect the ground each and every time they use their car to determine if there is a transmission fluid leak. But if there is a transmission leak in a late model VW, the owner will not be able to determine how much fluid needs to be replaced because1. only the dealer has the tool required to determine the level.2. only the dealer has the tool required to put it in and3. only the dealer carries the special $20/quart transmission fluid that can only be used in that car. Can't buy transmission fluid for that car from Pep Boys without voiding the warranty. Gotta get it from the dealer.

See a pattern?

That was one of the reasons I decided against a Passat when I bought a sedan.

[Bubba1]

CR's reporting is only relevant for anyone who expects their car to do nothing more than start, move, and stop. Sorry, I'll stick with Automobile Magazine's long term tests. Theres too many subjective factors in vehicle ownership and satisfaction to rank them the way you would a toaster.

I agree there are many subjective factors that go into vehicle ownership, but if you have access to unbiased source that shows you that all of the background, problem areas, reliability, owner surveys, are you saying you wouldn't want to review that before buying??

Call me crazy, but I like to do a lot of research before plunking $30,000 for a new car even more than a $50 toaster. And CR gives good data for the ownership experience. Automobile mag does do long term review on maybe a dozen cars for one year. CR does a couple hundred of them plus tracks all models thru several years of ownership.

I subscribe to both, Automobile is a much more fun read, but CR is a much better reference.

[Bubba1]

YES

LOL.

[PoorManQ45]

So what if it's closed loop system?So are the oil , cooling, and air conditioning. All are designed not to leak,but at some point they might. If the owners manual recommends checking, you check it.

Dude, the oil isn't a closed system. Rings arn't a perfect seal

I understand what you're saying though. Yes you *should* check the level of the transmission fluid, but if there are no leaks, then it shouldn't ever change

[Bubba1]

Dude, the oil isn't a closed system. Rings arn't a perfect seal

I understand what you're saying though. Yes you *should* check the level of the transmission fluid, but if there are no leaks, then it shouldn't ever change

Not true. VW does promote a "lifetime automatic transmission fluid"in their cars. Interesting thing is if you talk to mechanics that work on VW's, they'll tell you that in the fine print, VW defines "lifetime" as the end of the warranty period, not forever literally. The mechanics recommend changing VW ATF every 40K miles. Since it's an expensive task, budget conscious owners are not likely to ever change the fluid, which shortens the life expectancy of their very costly trannies. Another reason to consider avoiding used A/T VW's with over 100K miles.

[PoorManQ45]

Bubba: Do you know why the VW transmission fluid is so expensive? Is there a reason for it, or is it just because no one else makes it and they're a monopoly?

[Bubba1]

Bubba: Do you know why the VW transmission fluid is so expensive? Is there a reason for it, or is it just because no one else makes it and they're a monopoly?

Good question. I had read somewhere it was made from pressed Siberian Yak bladders , but I believe it's actually some sort of patented synthetic formula. One would think the actual manufacturer of the fluid would offer an aftermarket version, but I'm guessing VW controls either the patent or owns fluid manufacturer and restricts production to just their brand. Dang clever way to force a dealer service relationship with owners.

[PoorManQ45]

No, that is not a good way to increase deal customer relations. I good way to increase relations would be to offer the fluid at a LOWER cost then any aftermarket fluids, this is assuming that there would be some.

That would allow customers to *choose* to go to the dealer of their own free will, not because they were forced to

[Bubba1]

No, that is not a good way to increase deal customer relations. I good way to increase relations would be to offer the fluid at a LOWER cost then any aftermarket fluids, this is assuming that there would be some.

That would allow customers to *choose* to go to the dealer of their own free will, not because they were forced to

By clever, I meant sneaky, not in a good way. Of course it would be better if VW charged less, but VW wants to make money. I don't blame them.

I'm not sure you understood my point. Their design is such that ONLY a VW dealer can do that job, which LIMITS an owners choice as to where to get it done. If you live in a densely populated area, you may be lucky and have 2 local dealers to choose from. That ain't much choice. Now compare that with the Nissan you drive. It has a ATF dipstick and drain plug, and can be serviced by literally anyone, plus the transmission fluid can be purchased at any parts store.

This goes back to the complexity issue I raised earlier about German cars. Only the Germans can make a car without a simple ATF dipstick and drain plug, making the changing of the ATF an expensive and tedious task. And once the VW power train warranty period expires, it becomes the owners problem. And when the transmission develops problems, better brace yourself. I still like VW's, but I'm not sure I'd want to own a newer one long beyond the warranty period.

[grosspolluter]

VW's in general are decent cars. I have owned a few Jettas. The 1.8T is good for 280 hp in stock form with minor chip enhancements. There are 2 clutches, the LUK and the SACHS, the LUK clutch is a POS, the 1.8T engine is mated to a dual mass flywheel, which although it performs exceptionally well in stock trim, is a total POS if you plan on serious engine mods.

Overall, the VW Jetta Wolfsburg w/ 1.8T engine is a decent ride.