What qualifies as a "drift" ?

[Wuss]

Just wondering what the technical definition of a drift is? It seems like a lot of guys here say " oh yeah, i drift" yadda yadda, but every once in a while when a video pops up of people " drifting", it looks like to me their just fishtailing/kicking the back end out for a second.

I have seen these japanese drifting videos, and these guys sustain the drift for a decent amount of distance,sometimes for hundreds of feet, not just kicking the rear out.

Is this one of those things where if you can kick your rear end out, you're considered a drifter?

Seems to me that's almost as bad as putting a spoiler on your car and calling yourself a "racer".

[Sil-Dave]

In my opinion what most people say is drifting isn't really drifting at all, it is really just temporary sliding your car. A real drift is basically having control over your car while the car is out of control (i.e. Sliding sideways). I would have to say that really drifting is being able to slide your car for as long as you need to, which could be a second to quite a long time. So REAL drifting is not the powersliding that most people do. And I'm with you on the spoiler, most people who use a spoiler don't even know what it's for and couldn't really race a car to save their lives!

[JinXed]

Its basically (in my opinion) being able to kick the rear end out, and keep the wheels spinning and using throttle and brake to swing it out more or less, while you are countersteering. The thing that makes it drifting is that it is totally controlled, and its not jsut around one corner - real drifters can link them around a series of corners. -JinX

[Wuss]

Its basically (in my opinion) being able to kick the rear end out, and keep the wheels spinning and using throttle and brake to swing it out more or less, while you are countersteering. The thing that makes it drifting is that it is totally controlled, and its not jsut around one corner - real drifters can link them around a series of corners. -JinX

thats the exact definition of a fishtail. So fishtailing is drifting?

[BaliLover]

The way I had it explained, if only your rear wheels are sliding, you aren't drifiting, you are experiencing over/understeering. I was told that in a true drift, all 4 wheels experience sliding.

[SmithSR]

Not so. Your front wheels direct the car around a turn, or will allow for correction as you alter pitch, as the rear breaks traction, and the tail comes around. Read up, and watch some professionals.

[Cyberkreig]

2-wheel drift. a Fish-tail initiated before or during the corner, carried throughout. get skilled and you can avoid the 'bounce back' or use the bounce back to go around an opposing conrner.

4-wheel drift. Most japanese high-skilled drifters use this. Enter the corner with the car full sideways, sliding on all four wheels, using the front to direct you and the back tires spinning. Adjusted with throttle & handbrake.

EDIT: as i cant do either of these with any amount of control, I dont call myself a drifter and you can disregard me if you wish. Tho i do have a few gigs of drifting vids, and I wouldnt call myself a drifter until i could at least do a 2-wheel drift confidently.

[zombieman]

you're forgetting something guys, we shouldn't compare ourselves to the japanese drifters. Drifting is barely breaking in into the US (would be lucky if it had a chance to go mainstream at all). It will take us more practice before we can hold a drift that long like drifters in japan.

[Cyberkreig]

Why not? why should we set a lower standard?

Thats the difference between Japanese culture and American. Over there, its about being the best.. Learning your car, and being a better driver. Over here it(It being the car seen in general) seems to be just about showing off..

Drifting/Driving to me are all about developing your own skill, I want to go faster (EDIT: than i ever have) across a difficult road than go back and do it faster. All the while being as safe to myself and bistanders as possible.

I can kick the tail of my car out halfway throuhg a corner, and i can safely counter steer all the way out.. Thats easy. I'm not a drifter untill I can do it all 4 wheels, every time, fast and safe.

[zombieman]

showing off is far from what i'm talking about, Wuss was talking about how the japanese hold a longer drift compare to people he have seen on video who can't even hold a drift for more than 100 yards. I'm actually trying to say is that don't compare a beginner drifter you see in a homemade video to a more superior driver(which in my case would be the japanese because I haven't seen much good drifters in the US).

[krazy skwerel]

I agree. We are all learning and improving our technique. I have to agree the best definition of a drift is a controled slide. 2 wheel 4 wheel its all drifting. Now losing control arond a corner and barelyy making it out is not drifting. As drifting is controlled./ http://www.driftworks.org

[Cyberkreig]

I understand your point, I just mean to say that the best are the best, and there is no reason for us to compair ourselves to less.

"I'm just learning" or "I'm american" are not reasons to call a short, rainy-day fishtail a drift. Its OK to be new, its ok to not be able to drift ( i can't! ) Just saying that none of us should claim to be drifters untill we actualy have that much skill.

[s14a]

--drifting: *ahem* drifting is that fine line of control just b4 an uncontrolled skid. In racing, a car is usually considered drifting when all of its wheels are slipping, but the front wheels are still more-or-less pointed in the direction of the corner. Beyond that it is sliding. *bows*--

[C-Kwik]

4-wheel drift. Most japanese high-skilled drifters use this. Enter the corner with the car full sideways, sliding on all four wheels, using the front to direct you and the back tires spinning. Adjusted with throttle & handbrake.

In the typical drift the front wheels do not lose traction. They are actually usually counter-steering the car. A 4-wheel drift is seen much more in rally racing. And it's usually done by AWD cars.

[C-Kwik]

showing off is far from what i'm talking about, Wuss was talking about how the japanese hold a longer drift compare to people he have seen on video who can't even hold a drift for more than 100 yards. I'm actually trying to say is that don't compare a beginner drifter you see in a homemade video to a more superior driver(which in my case would be the japanese because I haven't seen much good drifters in the US).

Uhh? Go to a drift event. Especially in the socal area. There are a few here that can drift quite well. Benson Hsu and Alex Pfeiffer to name a couple. In fact, Alex drifted turns 8 and 9 of Willo Springs in one continuous drift in the rain lap after lap a few years ago. Anyone who doesn't know the track, turns 8 and 9 are very fast sweeping turns that together cover a distance of approximately 1/2 mile. Here's a link to a map of the track:

http://www.willowspringsracewa...g.gif

So in reference to both of your comments, it's not so much of a comparison to Japanese Drifters. But those with more experience.

And keep in mind most of the people we see out of Japan, are professional drifters. They are highly publicized since they are really good at it. But like us, they have good, average, mediocre and beginners just like we do. We just don't get to see as many of the mediocre and beginners like we do. I doubt just because they are Japanese, they are born with the skill to drift.

I'm sure you weren't trying to say Japanese are better because they are Japanese, but your message seems to imply that to some extent.

[toki]

99% of drifters here, are aspiring drifters. Just like ricers are aspirign racers. I here people seriously say "yeah I drifted that exit" when they pull out of a parking lot and throw out the back...it's ridiculous.

Am I a drifter? no. I am going to try it once I feel I have the right amount of knowledge and control? Yes.

I am not going to go balls to the wall and try and flat out 4 wheel 70mph drift the fist day, there is alot to be learned, first and for most, you HAVE HAVE HAVE HAVE to know how to actually DRIVE, i.e. "grip driving" for all the initial D people.

After you can actually start to play around with losing traction, AFTER you know how to keep it. A very easy and helpful thing amatuers can do to help drifting are controlled burn outs. Keep it constant, and try and controll the size of the circle. Learn to feather the gas, learn how much your car whips out, everyones is different. Drifting isn't something peopel walk into and can do the 2nd day. It all takes time, but people don't seem to realize that much..

[Cyberkreig]

In the typical drift the front wheels do not lose traction. They are actually usually counter-steering the car. A 4-wheel drift is seen much more in rally racing. And it's usually done by AWD cars.

you are right that it is highly used in rally.. but I would stand by my statement. IMO, and this is just my Opnion. 4-wheel drift on pavement is probably one of the most dangerous and skill-intensive things that can be done with a car.

I will give you this.. Typicaly entering a corner in a 4-wheel drift, sliding full sideways, the tires will regain traction usualy around the amex of the corner, so that you can guide yourself through.. Perhaps i should have been more specific.

[Cyberkreig]

Toki - I definatly agree. My plan was not to anger anyone, but to remind everyone that we are not pros.. we need to be careful.. and to try to not turn the turn 'drifting' into the new rice. (By not claiming what we cant do.)

[dr!ft]

I'll say right right now that I am by no means a drifter as the only time I get to practice is when I'm borrowing my friend's 240. Toki's right, and remember DONT start your practice drifting on mountain roads. Just because Bunta could do it with his eyes closed doesn't mean you can with them open...

[drift-sx]

drift - is when the front of your car faces the exit of the turn before, or at the apex of the turn. that is what i heard

[SilviaLuvr]

Drifting, from what I here is like riding, a bike once you do it the first time, you'll never forget. The toughest part though is doing it that frist time! Practice on dirving in a cirlce. Making the cirlce bigger and smaller with every go around. then practice on increasing your speed in the circle. Thats how I learned i don't do it now because tires are not cheap!

[Wuss]

drift - is when the front of your car faces the exit of the turn before, or at the apex of the turn. that is what i heard

hmm.. that's probably the most accurate definition of an actual drift that I have heard so far. Minus the "..or AT the apex of the turn".

I'm just trying to differentiate the difference between a drift, fishtail, just "kicking the back out", etc.. I think the majority of homemade videos I see of amateurs in the U.S. "drifting" aren't actually drifts.

[GatorS14]

does anyone think drifting is pointless?It burns tires,and can seriously mess up your car.Autocross people don't drift around corners because it slows you down and can take you off the track.

Don't get me wrong.I love finding an empty wet parking lot and sliding around.But to me drifting is comparable to burnouts.fun to watch but no real racing value.

[Cyberkreig]

Then you have no idea what it takes. You just proved the point that US drifters arent drifting, they are fish-tailing and power sliding.

The point of drift is to exert exact control in a situation that would destroy most drivers and cars.

[AJ-SPEC]

don't confuse drifting with racing. drifting is not racing, but some applications can be used while racing. I went to the track this weekend, the texas motor speedway infield, and I have stock brakes still. I found out going into a turn that the brakes were not going to stop me in time. I was able to use some of my experience drifting to use whatever brakes I had left to shift the weight allowing me to slide, the rear sliding bit more than the front, and countersteering to point myself to the exit of the turn. It kinda happened suddenly, but since I've been drifting quite a bit, it was a natural reaction and I kept myself out of the gravel. since I had no more brakes, I used this quite a bit, to the delight of the cornerworkers and bystanders watching. at first they were taking bets on when I would wreck. 10 or so min. later, they just enjoyed the show. oh yeah, and I have an open diff.

check out modified mag's drifiting articles, (sept. 03) especially the history, and you will find that drifting was actually born on the track, and was very successful early on.

[Altiman94]

I fell in love with 240's after seeing Crazy Bill drift in Rubin's s14. It doesn't take all that much power to do it on a beginner scale, but it would take 300+ or so whp to do it on a professional basis

[MrFox]

does anyone think drifting is pointless?It burns tires,and can seriously mess up your car.Autocross people don't drift around corners because it slows you down and can take you off the track.

Don't get me wrong.I love finding an empty wet parking lot and sliding around.But to me drifting is comparable to burnouts.fun to watch but no real racing value.

You end up with 4 wheel drifts often in track days when you enter corners too hot - i.e. you pass someone on the last part of a straighaway. Late braking + downshift = tail stepping out on corner entry, which also blocks the other car from re-passing on the therotically correct (and faster) racing line.

[4felix20]

drift = sideways BEFORE you hit the turn.

this enables you to punch it before you're even fully out of the turn, because you car is already lined up with the road ahead while exiting the turn.

[4felix20]

here's a good example:-courtesy of NekoPunch

[D-UNIT]

You got to remember that to "drift" and to drift well you will need a heck of a lot of power I'm talking 400+ bhp to do those 70+ mph controlled "drifts" like our japanese idols. Man if I pulled the e-brake in my car I think it would die out. Sure I have seen Kae 240's do fat 150 ft.+ radius doughnuts (auto). but it would take him almost 1/4 of a mile to get to "drifto" speed (4w drift) not fun!!. So either get some power (lots) and practice "drifting" (safely!!) Or you can run what you got (can afford = like me ) and just pop the clutch in second and do some really cool fishtailing (in the wet!!!) and just dream that you had a 600 horse sr under the hood like those signal guy's!