What makes the S13 understeer so much?

[Wangan_Z]

that's according to what I saw on 'Drift Bible'. What makes it understeer so much?

[sleepyRPS13]

i think some of the understeer comes from the independant macpherson strut style front suspension, its in most cars cause its cheap and light.

http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0306vwt_editor/

[rico05]

I wondered that myself. I have yet to have understeer gremlins. I never really played too much with her stock (because suspension were my first mods).

[Chingon]

i don't remember them saying that it understeered so much. I do know that manufacturers make most cars prone to understeer for safety reasons. I've heard the sway bar fixes most of these problems in the s13 however.

[dfw240_EE]

If I remember right, what Chingon said is true. The rear sway bar is only half the thickness of the front sway bar. This setup tends to induce understeer. If the swaybars were the same thickness I am not sure if it would understeer or oversteer or how close to balanced it might be.

[PGBrian]

bad driver.

[stfuad]

Does the 240 really use McPherson Independent type? If it does, that suxxors.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

yeah, keiichi tsuchiya is a really sucky driver

[silkk]

Kei Office coilovers will fix that understeer.

[sleepyRPS13]

when he was driving the kei office s13 it was still understeerin, he just pulls the ebrake to correct it most of the time.

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't believe that the S13 in the drift bible (the grey one) was a Kei Office tuned car. Did he drive a Kei Office S14 in another video?

[sleepyRPS13]

yeah your right it had nishizao spl coilovers 12kg/f 12.5kg/r no keioffice parts; i got confused w/ the white kieoffice s14, thinking they were both own by keioffice.

[Red coupe]

Im sorry man but Ive heard this too many times, with out trying to sound rude have you ever driven an s13? he ddnt say it understeer like a pick up he said it understeered more then the more nuetral s14, its a relative thing like saying a porshe boxter(sp?) is a crappy car just cause it isnt a 911. the s13 may have some mild understeer due most likely to suspention set up and a very slight forward weight bias (s14 closer to 50/50?) but if your s13 is haveing problems with understeer you most likely have some busted suspention, or you need to learn to work your gas and brake pedals a little bit better...

[Grip Gambler]

bad driver.

[Dirtylou]

I thought thicker sway bars are supposed to correct understeer.

[silencer.1]

Im sorry man but Ive heard this too many times, with out trying to sound rude have you ever driven an s13? he ddnt say it understeer like a pick up he said it understeered more then the more nuetral s14, its a relative thing like saying a porshe boxter(sp?) is a crappy car just cause it isnt a 911. the s13 may have some mild understeer due most likely to suspention set up and a very slight forward weight bias (s14 closer to 50/50?) but if your s13 is haveing problems with understeer you most likely have some busted suspention, or you need to learn to work your gas and brake pedals a little bit better...

He just asked why, Keiichi Tsuchiya, in the video Drift Bible says that the s13 chassis understeers. It has nothing to do with his driving abilities, just your inability to read his post thoroughly. I don't mean to come down on you but read what he said in context before you start trying to correct him.

That said, having owned an S13 for about 5 monthes now, it does understeer slightly with the stock suspension. It's not as bad as many fwd cars, but it's noticable. You can get it to understeer pretty easily by just cranking the wheel off quickly at speed. In the stock form you can still get it to swing the rear end out by all the methods Tsuchiya mentions in the video. I've done it with the e-brake, clutch locking, fienting and even braking. The first time I did a braking drift it wasn't entirely planned. I had been grip driving a section of twisting roa near me, entered an S-turn a little too fast (aka. 90mph instead of the 35mph posted), braked late trying to trail brake into it make the curve, ended up getting on the gas too soon loosing the traction in the rear end and swinging it out into a text book braking drift. Long story short, I overcompensated, spun out and looked a total ***. Looking back on it, it was stupid and irresponsible for me to do something like that on a public road even if it was late at night though later in the week we tried recreating it in the empty lot behind my buddy's place and got it to do braking and fient slides pretty easily. In my experience, the slight understeering allows you to counter-steer a little bit later but not by a significant amount to make a real difference. Either a change in springs/shocks or an adjustable rear sway bar will allow you to tune it for neutral or oversteering qualities.

[sleepyRPS13]

what is the offical wght distribution of an s13? ...the numbers i found is 53/47% & 54.3/45.8% on the 240sx.org installpages & http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=45754 ... is that correct? cause thats pretty damn close to 50/50. for the s14 i only got 55/45, isnt that weird... harr

yeah you can correct understeer with throttle&brake work but it will be there like a habitual line stepper...i watched the dvd again the s14 did also understeered couple of times

i have understeered a couple of times so i know how it feels especially one right into a ditch.

[PGBrian]

Keiichi isn't even very good at drifting.have any of you seen him in real life?i have. he isn't great.any of the D1 drivers will tear him up any day of the week.

[Red coupe]

... the s13 may have some mild understeer due most likely to suspention set up and a very slight forward weight bias (s14 closer to 50/50?)...

Im pretty sure I offered an explination of why the s13 may understeer in my post, did you?I also did not mention "the drift kings" driving skill, I mearly said most of the people who are saying "why does the s13 understeer so much" are probably the answer to their own question, and their inputs are probably to blame, that being said if he wants to ask any questions on driving Ill answere them to the best of my limited knowlage or help to point him int the right direction...

Also I read his post well it was only one line did you make it to the 4th of mine before jumping at me. Im trying to state that he souldnt worry so much about one persons who happens to have a videos opinion of a cars handing in respects to its nuetrality (i think im just making up words here but you get the point )and if he is going to he should at least take into account the vehichles it is being compaired to (an s14 and a mid engine sports car) how ever to further elaborate, on the original questing consider the catigory the 240 falls in, although it is a blast to drive it wasnt marked/sold in the US as a sports car(note the hp) its was the same class a civic or escort would be in. Nissan knew the people it was marking the 240 to didnt want a car that would start to spin if the were turning to fast and carelessly let off the gas. with a car that understeers if a careless drive enters a corner to fast and gets scared and drops out of the throttle or brakes its going to slow down and understeer less, were as if it never understeered in the first place (nuetral handling) and they braked it would wanna spin and you would have to think and correct, (manufactures selling to the average person doesnt assume they are goin to think much, hence tractions controll, stability manigement, abs....)see that was long and didnt offer much most of us didnt already know, wich is why I posted the short version that i quoted at the begining of this oversized post, Ill be realy amazed if any one is still reading...

[easymmkay240sx]

Keiichi isn't even very good at drifting.have any of you seen him in real life?i have. he isn't great.any of the D1 drivers will tear him up any day of the week.

Why post this? totally uncalled for..

[nisYHralli]

Keiichi isn't even very good at drifting.have any of you seen him in real life?i have. he isn't great.any of the D1 drivers will tear him up any day of the week.

thats just ****-talking in its purest form. I love how you've never 'tore him up any day of the week' but, you quickly refer to D1 drivers to back up your arguement. Well done.

obviously, you have no grasp of a 'senpai/kohai' relationship.

[ralphdig]

that's according to what I saw on 'Drift Bible'. What makes it understeer so much?

S13 is close to ideal balance, and doesn't understeer "so much" period.Learn to drive.

[KDashy]

My car is not an Escort.

[PGBrian]

uh-oh, i offended people by telling them Keiichi isn't a great drifter.

sorry guys. i must be incorrect.

[azncorruptedo17]

Keiichi isn't even very good at drifting.have any of you seen him in real life?i have. he isn't great.any of the D1 drivers will tear him up any day of the week.

uncalled for but true... he crashed the hks s15 dammit!

but brian is right ken and/or chris can tear him up,

keiichi is only well known, in the drift scene, because of drift bible, who else knows him as a d1 driver.. just because he's the "drift king" please... ken is waaay crazier as a drifter.

anyway... back to the topic?

[PGBrian]

i stated the fact that Keiichi is not a good drfiter because whoever made this thread ws basing their assumptions on what this "drift king" said. it is all opinion. one person could think the s13 understeers, while another person could think it oversteers.

anyways, cars are not really designed to be oversteering machines. if that were the case, people would spin out all the time and more accidents would occur.

[Red coupe]

My car is not an Escort.

same class not same car, and their was a time when and escort was something youd love to be compaired to (why did so many cars get killed in the 80s/90s!?).

I think some who seem bitter here about this question are just taking out pent up agression from other times they heard this and its type of question asked. Nothing against you wanagan z but it was one line in one movie, it wasnt anything more then a passing though of a respected driver (remeber also that this guy drives cars ALOT). I think its also important to note the sensitivity of the person making the claim. ever play pool? whats the difference between a nineteen and twenty ounce pool cue? you or me would probably not realy notice, or it wouldnt be enough to even pay attention to, although a pro would be wondering why his stick was so heavy. A profesional driver is going to be much sensitive to small changes in the cars setup. so much understeer to Keiichi is just a small hint of trail braking to you or me.

[InsanityInc]

Well, it has a forward weight bias (albeit a slight one), so it will understeer slightly if you turn without any gas, or screw up a turn. However, if you gas properly through a turn, your FR torque steer will easily overcome the understeer. I'm fairly certain this is why Nissan tends to bias their FR sports cars slightly to the front. It makes turning with throttle more neutral than a 50/50 distribution would.

[Nismo_Freak]

Well, it has a forward weight bias (albeit a slight one), so it will understeer slightly if you turn without any gas, or screw up a turn. However, if you gas properly through a turn, your FR torque steer will easily overcome the understeer. I'm fairly certain this is why Nissan tends to bias their FR sports cars slightly to the front. It makes turning with throttle more neutral than a 50/50 distribution would.

Incorrect, an inexperienced drivers first reaction to anything is to apply the brake. Nissan understood this and applied a small amount more brake bias and weight to the front to maximize braking stability.

[92ranger]

pickups? understeer? heh...my a$$ is the first thing to swing around on a turn...but then again i may just be a good driver =P