Well this is terrifying: Factory supercharged QR25s.

[MinisterofDOOM]

How do you improve on a crude unreliable, poorly balanced, oil-guzzling, fastener-ingesting, not-particularly-efficient four cylinder? ADD BOOST OF COURSE!!!! It certainly won't make it any less reliable!

The new Pathy and JX35 hybrids (nope, I'm not going to call it that) get supercharged 2.5 liters. I'm assuming they're QRs. No confirmation yet, but I can't think what else it'd be. 2.5 liter variants of the VQ have all been rear-drive versions so far (FWD VQ block is no longer anything like the rear drive block).

Specs are:
250hp
243 ft-lb
26mpg combined.

This just seems silly to me. Add boost to a crappy engine to equal a good engine? How is this any better than the VQ? Its fuel economy is actually quite decent. In my dad's VQ35 Maxima, I've never had any trouble averaging mid 20s even with aggressive driving. And the VQ is more powerful with an even better torque curve. Sure, the Altima gets better EPA ratings than Camry or Accord, but that's because both of those cars weigh seventeen million tons but continue to use torqueless wonders in their base models.

I could see an MR20DDT or something like that. But a QR25DET? WTF Nissan? Tell me there's something else going on here!

Oh, also: Highlander hybrids get 2GRs. Why does Nissan's hybrid get a powerplant nerf?

[WDRacing]

Adding boost makes any engine more efficient. Just my .02

[gwoods]

nearly WD.. the 5.0 NA version of my 5.0 supercharged Jag gets better MPG for some reason

[RicerX]

That's a lot of torque for a QR.

The dying Nissan fanboy in me hopes for this to be the VQ25. But I'm probably completely wrong considering the delta between N/A and Turbo power figures. That would also be one of the first Infiniti vehicles in quite some time to sport a 4 cyl.

*edit: scratch that. I reread MoD's original post and remembered that the new Pathfinder is a FWD/AWD configuration. Dying Nissan fanboyism continues to die.

[WDRacing]

nearly WD.. the 5.0 NA version of my 5.0 supercharged Jag gets better MPG for some reason

Gas mileage isn't what I'd consider the end all to motor efficiency. I'd say power per cube is a far better example then mile per gallon. I don't consider mileage for the most part. My driving style doesn't allow for good mileage to be attained regardless of the vehicle. When I drive my wifes Dart, her average fuel consumption goes down quite a bit

By adding a supercharger you increase the available torque from throttle tip in all the way through redline. The Pathy and JX35 are way too heavy to have a NA 4 banger.

[Jesda]

I suspect its due to the low cost of the QR.

[DJ_B_Easy]

Dying Nissan fanboyism continues to die.

<------Walking dead.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Adding boost makes any engine more efficient. Just my .02

Right, but it doesn't make it not guzzle oil or suck at generally being a decent engine. THAT's the problem. The single worst and most unreliable powerplant Nissan has built in the last forty years is getting boosted. Meanwhile there's a perfectly reliable VQ35 sitting there not getting used.

The Pathy and JX35 are way too heavy to have a NA 4 banger.

Right, but the Pathy and JX35 get VQ35s normally. Why are we downgrading to a QR and then adding boost? Why not just leave the VQ in there? Or at least boost an engine worth boosting. If Toyota, the king of hybridness, can put a 2GR V6 in a the hybrid Highlander, I think Nissan is okay pulling off a VQ in the hybrid pathy.

It's not boost hate. It's QR hate. Get it out of here.

[Outkast]

How do you improve on a crude unreliable, poorly balanced, oil-guzzling, fastener-ingesting, not-particularly-efficient four cylinder? ADD BOOST OF COURSE!!!! It certainly won't make it any less reliable!

The new Pathy and JX35 hybrids (nope, I'm not going to call it that) get supercharged 2.5 liters. I'm assuming they're QRs. No confirmation yet, but I can't think what else it'd be. 2.5 liter variants of the VQ have all been rear-drive versions so far (FWD VQ block is no longer anything like the rear drive block).

Specs are:
250hp
243 ft-lb
26mpg combined.

This just seems silly to me. Add boost to a crappy engine to equal a good engine? How is this any better than the VQ? Its fuel economy is actually quite decent. In my dad's VQ35 Maxima, I've never had any trouble averaging mid 20s even with aggressive driving. And the VQ is more powerful with an even better torque curve. Sure, the Altima gets better EPA ratings than Camry or Accord, but that's because both of those cars weigh seventeen million tons but continue to use torqueless wonders in their base models.

I could see an MR20DDT or something like that. But a QR25DET? WTF Nissan? Tell me there's something else going on here!

Oh, also: Highlander hybrids get 2GRs. Why does Nissan's hybrid get a powerplant nerf?

Oil consumption was only prevalent in the first generation QR. The 07~12 had very little problems with the motors. And that engine will be in the Altima too

[MinisterofDOOM]

And I'm not buying any Altimas any time soon, either.

[Jesda]

When I see an Altima 2.5 roll across the line at the auction I'm always tempted to buy one because they look decent, drive okay, and go for dirt cheap.

But I could never do that to a retail customer. My reputation is on the line.

[Ace2cool]

The world needs more car salesmen like you. I'll make a trip to St. Louis for my next car. Not that I'm looking anytime soon.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

It is definitely a QR. Not a VQ.

"....are you kidding me?" was also my first reaction when I heard about this a few years ago.
Followed by "... you mean we're stuck with the QR for another long period of time?! DAMNIT!"

[Bubba1]

When I see an Altima 2.5 roll across the line at the auction I'm always tempted to buy one because they look decent, drive okay, and go for dirt cheap.

But I could never do that to a retail customer. My reputation is on the line.

That's wise. But in all fairness, the oil guzzling problem with the 2.5L Alti motor was not the motor istself, but the cheapie catalytic converter, and Nissan's delayed response to it. They did eventually address the problem (not well), but once they changed cats, the engine was reliable. Of course, after Nissan fixed that converter problem, they switched over to CVT, which created a whole new problem, which is why I'd avoid buying a used 4 cyl Altima now.

I bought one of those early 2.5L QR Altimas new for my wife and owned it for many years. The cat disingtegrated as they aged and small remnants got sucked back into the engine scoring the cylinder walls, resulting in increasing oil consumption. The frustrating part was that it was so gradual, by the time you noticed it, it was too late.

MoD, I agree they were not sophisticated, powerful motors but excluding the cat fiasco, they were pretty durable little motors that offered 30+ mpg (more efficient than you give credit). I think Jesda nailed it that Nissan is likely re-using it more due to a cost saving issue than anything else.

And turbo/or/supercharging it makes it a bit quicker in a straightline, which was a drawback of the NA version.

[jmann]

I owned a 2002 2.5 altima, purchased new. After reading here and there about the disintegrating cat issue, I purchased a $180 header and removed the front cat before it hit 60k miles. The '02's could use a O2 simulator, and I had one that only had to be replaced one time. I never had oil burning issues with that car, but it just didn't age well. I loctited the butterfly valve screws on it too before any worked themselves loose.

[Dattebayo]

I could see an MR20DDT or something like that. But a QR25DET? WTF Nissan? Tell me there's something else going on here!

I believe that would actually be a QR25DER, right?

Anyway, It's hard to believe they still use a 2.5 liter engine that makes as little power as it does. Competitor's motors make much more with less...

[MinisterofDOOM]

I could see an MR20DDT or something like that. But a QR25DET? WTF Nissan? Tell me there's something else going on here!

I believe that would actually be a QR25DER, right?

Oh, yeah. Yep, 4 for supercharger.

[RicerX]

Should be a QR25DERP.

[alphapig]

I don't see a problem here.

Reliable power to a reliable engine. I definitely prefer this to turbo charging the QR25.

Power figures look good. There is no reason to expect a low-boost 2.5 liter to pump out similar numbers to a turbo MIVEC 2.0

[PapaSmurf2k3]

reliable engine

I'd like to see your data.

[elwesso]

Maybe if they redesign it to add boost, they will fix the other stuff wrong with it..? Wishful thinking?

Just look at GM with the Northstar.... It sucked when it first came out, but after 10 years they finally made it into a solid, reliable engine.

[alphapig]

reliable engine

I'd like to see your data.

Anecdotal data. Low in value I'm sure, but higher than 20y.o. misconceptions.

Are we ignoring Bubba1's thoughtful explanation?

But in all fairness, the oil guzzling problem with the 2.5L Alti motor was not the motor istself, but the cheapie cat

[Dattebayo]

I think they were not really referring to it's reliability, but it's improper design characteristics. It's a very stroky engine, the cat issue, and the butterfly screws in the intake runners.

Still, it's enough of a hassle for some to call it a lemon engine. But how many other engines do we put up with a similar number of problems? I can name quite a few problems with the KA, CA and SR if we really want to get into it...

[PapaSmurf2k3]

The QR is definitely one of the worst 4 cylinders Nissan has ever made.

The KA's, CA's, and SR problems usually didn't just happen to every day people, they happen to people that beat the absolute s*** out of them.

It doesn't help that Nissan's recall of the QR didn't cover a huge number of engines.

[WDRacing]

The KA, SR and CA were all excellent engines when left in stock trim. The majority of problems come from people modifying them and the majority of those relate directly to operator error.

[Mr1der]

It better go in a juke at some point.

[Dattebayo]

So, the point remains: Can anyone point out how the QR is "unreliable" other than the three non-"engine" issues listed?

[MinisterofDOOM]

I don't see how catastrophic oil-consumption, and ingesting throttlebody fasteners are not engine-related issues.

The KA's, CA's, and SR problems usually didn't just happen to every day people

THAT is the key. The QR is an average engine with FREQUENT problems. Your average Altima or SE-R buyer in 2001 was the victim. Not tuners and gearheads. Lots of average people doing average things with the engine had issues, despite not asking much of it.
It also isn't an engine that's noteworthy for any reason, which means there's no "charisma" to balance out its fail. It's not like the early Northstar or LY7s whose issues at least happened in spite of excellence in other areas. It's just a crass, harsh, poorly-balanced and unrefined noisemaker that has a history of failing for no valid reason. And now we're implementing it in place of all the other universally superior engines in Nissan's stable. Just doesn't add up to me. It feels like fail. It feels like lazy. It feels like cost-cutting. It feels like more of what is killing Nissan.

[Bubba1]

I don't think the engine was as horrible as you guys portray it. I did not have any of the throttle body fastener problems you mentioned, and "catastrophic" is a bit strong for the oil consumption. The engine was reliable. Prior to 150K miles, no oil consumption at all. Between 150K and 170K it consumed less than a quart of oil between 3K mile oil changes. After 170K and until I sold the car at 180K is was when it began deteriorating. At it's worst, it used a quart about every 500 miles. And with the car being used at that point by my son who had just gotten his license and put few miles on it. It wasn't a huge inconvenience.

I was clearly disappointed with the shortened life of my QR, despite relatively easy use and good maintenance. But I blame Nissan corporate more than the motor. Had Nissan stepped up the plate and properly handled that cat issue, (I think there should have been a much bigger recall), I have little doubt I would have still have that car with that same motor in it. I just think Nissan's mishandling of the cat issue created more bad feelings for that motor than anything else.

I agree, it was not a charismatic or particularly spirited motor, but for a modest priced family sedan like an Altima for an owner with no aspirations to add power to it, it was simple, reliable and delivered good mpg. That's not that bad.

[Jesda]

I dont usually mind oil consumption except in the case of the QR where it's a precursor to disaster. Same for the VK45DE.