wannabes
wannabes
hmm ive been reading a lot of the posts and it just seems like most of the people in this organisation are stereotypical. the icon for a member seems to be macho hardcore 240sx owners who only respect nissans and diss hondas and integras and domestic muscle cars. i admit i followed ths trend for about a month dissing hondas. i mean i do dislike hondas because they are so popular but i do respect the potential they have. vtecs and i vtecs are the best 4 cylinder engines made in my opinion. an s2000 makes 240 naturally aspirated hp on stock motor while type Rs and Sh preludes make 200. nissan has nothing close to that on a 4 cylinder engine. the newest sr20de in japan only has about 162 horses.the most powerful yet is the 4 cylinder motor used in a sentra ser vspec which pumps 175 horses. i love nissans and most powerplants used by nissan but the fact still remains that it doesnt mean nissan is the best. all cars are compared equally by their own uniqueness. hondas and acuras use na and have more ground power while nissan uses forced induction but can handle more power and extremes. on the same note, it seems like alot of people here disrespect american muscle but what they do not realize is that there is no comparison to american muscle. i have seen dodge chargers hemicudas barracudas mustangs camaros and trans ams make over 1000 hp on naturally aspirated motor. now you could say that it is because they are v8s but the fact still remains hat without a supercharger or nitrous an american motor can pump out 3 times as much power as it can when its stock. i havnt yet seen ka24 motor pumping 450 horses( 3 times stock power) with or without turbo super or nitrous. dont get me wrong here. i still love nissan cars but the fact that most of us here act like nissans are the kings of the road is just plain dumb when we consider the fact that the fastest 240sx we have heard of is owned by aries and he has an american motor running on his 240.
:Werd
too many people here with some minor mods like intake or something acting like they are hot ****. honestly. if you act like a big man becuase you have your 240 and have really done nothing special, thats just what you are, nothing special. I dont go around acting like my 80 caddy is a V8 american muscle supercar..because it isn't. A stock 240 isn't exactly a monster either. Anyone who is really a car enthusiast, should have respect for all formats of cars, be it a 1000hp N/A v10 or 1000hp I4 running 35psi boost.
too many people here with some minor mods like intake or something acting like they are hot ****. honestly. if you act like a big man becuase you have your 240 and have really done nothing special, thats just what you are, nothing special. I dont go around acting like my 80 caddy is a V8 american muscle supercar..because it isn't. A stock 240 isn't exactly a monster either. Anyone who is really a car enthusiast, should have respect for all formats of cars, be it a 1000hp N/A v10 or 1000hp I4 running 35psi boost.
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JESTER
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I guess I will speak for the Honda Haters Society:
I hate them. But not because of the cars. But, for the drivers. I belive most people on here, who has been here for awhile has learned respect for vtec and Hondas. I like the cars, and would have one, if it wasn't for all the so called ricers. They are the ones ruining Honda for the people like us. People that want performance. We go this route, because it is still pure, for now. I will only buy a Nissan, Toyota, or Subaru. You get the same quality with no where near the rice as Integras and Civics.
As far as American muscle. Well, I agree. That is where I set my goals. I want an i4 import that will take an LS1. The 240 is ideal, for it's abundance, rwd, and ability to be easily modified. Not to mention they look sweet.
For the most part, I agree with you. You have to give respect where it is due. Then set your goals, and earn the respect you want.
I hate them. But not because of the cars. But, for the drivers. I belive most people on here, who has been here for awhile has learned respect for vtec and Hondas. I like the cars, and would have one, if it wasn't for all the so called ricers. They are the ones ruining Honda for the people like us. People that want performance. We go this route, because it is still pure, for now. I will only buy a Nissan, Toyota, or Subaru. You get the same quality with no where near the rice as Integras and Civics.
As far as American muscle. Well, I agree. That is where I set my goals. I want an i4 import that will take an LS1. The 240 is ideal, for it's abundance, rwd, and ability to be easily modified. Not to mention they look sweet.
For the most part, I agree with you. You have to give respect where it is due. Then set your goals, and earn the respect you want.
Speaking as an owner of an LS1, I'm not so sure you really want one so badly. Great power, great powerband, awesome torque, but a whole host of issues also, including cranks that vibrate like crazy (mine), piston slap (mine) etc...plus, as Aries pointed out to me a while back, the LS1 won't fit well in the 240. An LT1 would probably be a better and cheaper choice, performance will nearly be the same.
As for Nissan vs. everybody else, I agree with the general thought here that rivalry between marques is kind of silly. Every marque has its own talents and specialties. Honda makes top of the line 4-cylinders, Nissan has the best styling and handling (subjectively), Toyota makes rock-solid engines, Mazda has rotaries...then you've got the Camaro/Mustang contingent as well, which has its own strengths. Just because you love Nissans doesn't mean every other type of car is automatically a pile of junk.
As for Nissan vs. everybody else, I agree with the general thought here that rivalry between marques is kind of silly. Every marque has its own talents and specialties. Honda makes top of the line 4-cylinders, Nissan has the best styling and handling (subjectively), Toyota makes rock-solid engines, Mazda has rotaries...then you've got the Camaro/Mustang contingent as well, which has its own strengths. Just because you love Nissans doesn't mean every other type of car is automatically a pile of junk.
I agree most people on here seem jaded towards honda and other car manufactuers for some unknown reason. I have to say that yes I am biassed towrds Nissan a little but I LOVE CARS period. Working on cars, driving cars, friends cars, my cars. Be it a AE-86 Corrolla, Mitsubishi Starion, 1967 Z-28 Camaro, or an 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV 2000. It really does not matter to me. I was planning on (and still plan on) buying a 1988 Merkur XR4Ti if that says how stupidly in love with cars I am. I think if you are a real enthusiest you don't really care what kind of car it is but the potential in the car and its own realitive uniquness.
Aaron Rivers
Aaron Rivers
I love nissan for its stock handling ability, from there the motor can be made a little more jucy.
I dont like the rice crowd who stive for image as opposed to performance.
The difference I think, is that if I were given 25k to modify my car, I would drop in an RB, suspension, turbo upgrade, tires, rims, flywheel, clutch, LSD, exhaust, electronics for turbo system,
If I had time I would upgrade the sterio/speakers..... and I would probably stop there.
A ricer would go with the body kit, lower it to the floor reguardless of performance, nice paint job, spoiler/wing, 5k sterio, carbon fiber everything inside so it looks nice, custom trim inside, color syncronized engine components, big a$$ muffler (who cares about the rest of the exhaust) etc....
And yes I know that there are some honda people out there that do great things with their cars.....
I want a car because it goes fast, and its fun to drive. If I happen to look cool driving it, hey, great..... A ricer thinks completely oposite, and thats why I dislike.
Again, the reason I stay away from Honda, is because I dont want to be anywhere near that ricer label, I dont want to be known for my flashy wheels or my neon lights, I dont even necessarialy want to be known.... just want to bond with my car.....
Done rambling now......
I dont like the rice crowd who stive for image as opposed to performance.
The difference I think, is that if I were given 25k to modify my car, I would drop in an RB, suspension, turbo upgrade, tires, rims, flywheel, clutch, LSD, exhaust, electronics for turbo system,
If I had time I would upgrade the sterio/speakers..... and I would probably stop there.
A ricer would go with the body kit, lower it to the floor reguardless of performance, nice paint job, spoiler/wing, 5k sterio, carbon fiber everything inside so it looks nice, custom trim inside, color syncronized engine components, big a$$ muffler (who cares about the rest of the exhaust) etc....
And yes I know that there are some honda people out there that do great things with their cars.....
I want a car because it goes fast, and its fun to drive. If I happen to look cool driving it, hey, great..... A ricer thinks completely oposite, and thats why I dislike.
Again, the reason I stay away from Honda, is because I dont want to be anywhere near that ricer label, I dont want to be known for my flashy wheels or my neon lights, I dont even necessarialy want to be known.... just want to bond with my car.....
Done rambling now......
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iliketocrash
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i'd just like to comment on the american muscle car thing... the first post said that they can pump out 3 or 4 times their stock hp or whatever... do you know what the stock hp on a lot of the older muscle cars was? It was horrible! Because the factory didn't know how to build or tune an engine, and if they did they sure didn't let the general public know it. So that's when the general public took it apon themselves to build apon these engines and tune them properly so they could build these engines up to their full potential. So don't talk about muscle car engines being able to push out 3 or 4 times their stock hp, because the majority of the time, the stock hp was a damn joke compared to what the engine should really be pushing out.
iliketocrash wrote:i'd just like to comment on the american muscle car thing... the first post said that they can pump out 3 or 4 times their stock hp or whatever... do you know what the stock hp on a lot of the older muscle cars was? It was horrible! Because the factory didn't know how to build or tune an engine, and if they did they sure didn't let the general public know it. So that's when the general public took it apon themselves to build apon these engines and tune them properly so they could build these engines up to their full potential. So don't talk about muscle car engines being able to push out 3 or 4 times their stock hp, because the majority of the time, the stock hp was a damn joke compared to what the engine should really be pushing out.
I'm still not sure what this guys point is? What? That a stock 60's era muscle car was capable of putting out more than the factory rated them at? DUHH! The stock engine was never really designed to be at its optimum tune level, it was a mass produced engine with lots of power from the factory for the masses to enjoy, it was reliable and fairly economicle fuel wise for its era under normal driving conditions. It was never ment to be a race engine from the factory! So what that the factory didn't rate it correctly. I believe we were talking about what they were rated at by the factory not what they "should" have been rated at. Man get a life and stop complaining that any V-8 car could kick a I-4's sorry little behind with the same amount of money spent on it as the I-4....Sorry but the old saying is correct "There is no replacement for displacement".
Aaron Rivers
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AZhitman
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iliketocrash wrote:do you know what the stock hp on a lot of the older muscle cars was? It was horrible! Because the factory didn't know how to build or tune an engine, and if they did they sure didn't let the general public know it.
Hmmm. Guess my 320hp from the factory was horrible in 1968....
They didn't have the benefit of modern technology... EVERYTHING has advanced. You're comparing apples to oranges.
To say they didn't know how to build or tune an engine is missing the point. The same could be said for your car - From the factory, it's what, 140hp? But with some mods, it's capable of FAR more.
Nothing's changed.
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iliketocrash
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A_Rivers wrote:
Sorry but the old saying is correct "There is no replacement for displacement".
Aaron Rivers
You just explained my point, and a lot better than i could. There is no replacement for displacement. The first post was just making it seem as if getting an old muscle car engine to push out 3 or 4 times its STOCK hp rating was something amazing. He went on to say that he hasn't seen any small displacement four cylinders that could do that. (n/a that is) but that's because 4cylinders have only relatively recently become so popular and were quickly pushed to their limits. So in conclusion all i'm saying is that the car manufacturer's are doing a better job of pushing their 4cylinders to the point where the general public can't push them much farther w/o the help of forced induction, nitrous and whatever else. Whereas the larger mucle car engines were never pushed far to begin w/ and so their true potential was never shown from the factory. So making a muscle car engine that is able to push out 3 or 4 times its STOCK hp is nothing amazing because the stock hp that the factory gave it was crap. That's all. I am NOT dissing muscle cars. If you don't understand my point then don't jump on me about it. Just say what you don't understand about what i said and give me a chance to explain myself.
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GatorS14
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Re: wannabes
K1LLA916K wrote: an s2000 makes 240 naturally aspirated hp on stock motor while type Rs and Sh preludes make 200. nissan has nothing close to that on a 4 cylinder engine.
One word..................... TORQUE!!!
horsepower sells cars,torque wins races.
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Eklectrick
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Re: Re: wannabes
GatorS14 wrote:One word..................... TORQUE!!!
s2000 he mentioned doesn't have that bad of a torque rating.
Quote »horsepower sells cars,torque wins races. [/quote] . . . when it is backed up by horsepower.
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krazy skwerel
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I try to not be biased torwards any car company unless I have a personal experience to not like something they have done. As far as hondas being "rice" cars. I don't believe this ive seen every damn car i can think of "riced out" well maybe not every car but there is a whole lot. and nissans are no strangers to it.
The reason I like Nissans is because it is an alternative to Hondas. Dont get me wrong, Im sure there are legit Honda owners out there, but I havent met any. All the Honda owners I know have spent thousands of dollars on paint jobs, Black Widow body kits, systems, DVD players, 18" chrome Giovana rims, and then theyget an AEM intake, 3" GReddy exhaust, and an empty bottle of NOS so they can put some put performance stickers on their windows to offset the numerous "ice" products they have. I have no problem with these people if their aim is to have a pretty car. I dont like the kids who have an automatic 2000 Civic with all the **** mentioned above and ask my friend with a turbo upgraded 2002 WRX if he wants to "go do a run for fun?" If anyone denies that a V8 mustang will rip apart their car, they have either put a hell of alot of time and moeny into their car or they should be taken out back and beaten till they return to their senses.
not all hondas are rice cars. a couple of my hmong homeboys have crx's and civic hatchbacks with a h22a or gsr motor running in them. they hit high 13s easy. as far as everyones comments im not going to get off on anyone because everyone is entitled to their own opinion and well its good to have a little criticism sometimes. when i talk about domestic muscle, i grew up around them having most of my cousins have either mustangs or supras. 3 of my cousins have 89-93 5.0 gt mustangs and are pumping out close to 650 horsepower already. i believe the car comes stock with 225 horsepower. and well i you want to talk about old skool muscle cars, they were te most advanced cars of their time. at the time when bmws and old skool nissan silvias were pumping 90 horsepower, late (60s) mustang gt500 shelbys were pumping 350. during tht very same era, gt40 concepts from ford were pumping over 450 horses. say what you want but if you say that old muscle cars were not almos full tuned to their factory potential is like saying the old silvias were not tuned to their full potential. i believe at that time, silvias had the most horsepower coming out of a 4 cylinder engine. point made. period.
I work on my friends mopars ,and chevys we all get along just fine . we all respect each others car .
John has a 72 nova355s/b fully built bad a**all motor caryes he makes way more power than most 4cyl.but he gets like 2mpg on race gashis positrac is adjusted so tight it might as well be a spool.extremely high maint.
he was the bad *** at the local street racesshow up w/ the cam lopin at 1200huge micky thomson et streets on backfor like 2 mos noone would racehim
then one night a grey 240 from evolution shows up(sr20 at10psi)says he'll race for 100bucks (then he hears nova start up and decides to just run for bragging rights:pface
I was sure the nova was gonna smoke him. I mean the 240 had good year all weather tires on it and an open diff.(205 6015) versus the novas slicks , so even if he had the same power he didnt have grip
they went from a 20 roll and the 240 won .. bya carlength... and he missed 3rd. my jaw dropped you couldnt even hear the pumpgas 22mpg 240 . all you heard was a screamin a** small block. my point is with all the experiance i have had with american muscle . The ones that are 12s or faster are not truly street carsmaybe street legal, but not streetable.
Oh yeah James think thats his name or some one from the Evolution club tell him john with the nova wants to run again:)
John has a 72 nova355s/b fully built bad a**all motor caryes he makes way more power than most 4cyl.but he gets like 2mpg on race gashis positrac is adjusted so tight it might as well be a spool.extremely high maint.
he was the bad *** at the local street racesshow up w/ the cam lopin at 1200huge micky thomson et streets on backfor like 2 mos noone would racehim
then one night a grey 240 from evolution shows up(sr20 at10psi)says he'll race for 100bucks (then he hears nova start up and decides to just run for bragging rights:pface
I was sure the nova was gonna smoke him. I mean the 240 had good year all weather tires on it and an open diff.(205 6015) versus the novas slicks , so even if he had the same power he didnt have grip
they went from a 20 roll and the 240 won .. bya carlength... and he missed 3rd. my jaw dropped you couldnt even hear the pumpgas 22mpg 240 . all you heard was a screamin a** small block. my point is with all the experiance i have had with american muscle . The ones that are 12s or faster are not truly street carsmaybe street legal, but not streetable.
Oh yeah James think thats his name or some one from the Evolution club tell him john with the nova wants to run again:)
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Eklectrick
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K1LLA916K wrote:i could use some more criticism and more opinions from the more open minded people and understanding people. damn i sound like one of those dating fone services.
I agree with you. I just thought you were doing fine on your own. I know lots of people who own Hondas that aren't "riced out" and are actually pretty damn fast.
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encasemyheart
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Repo Man
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Not everyone here is closed-minded and anti-Honda. I have a Honda. I don't drive it (long story), but that's not the point. Before I got my last 240, I was actually looking for a Civic or an Integra. I really liked the Integra and I still do. The biggest problem is that they're overpriced and not a good value, IMO. I realized this, and looked again at the 240 and was amazed that I didn't see the obvious answer before.
It's not about having the most powerful car or the quickest quarter mile times. If that were the case, I would not have sold my '72 Camaro RS (ran a 406 SBC and it was nasty) and bought a 240. The Camaro was fun, streetable and very quick but didn't have the handling capability I was looking for. The 240 filled that gap nicely, being RWD and most importantly having an independent rear suspension. The design of the suspension is miles ahead of any musclecar suspension.
If you're looking for ultimate power production, the American muscle is where it's at. Sure, you can build an RB26 or a 2JZ but how much are you going to spend? Who is going to do the work? The fact is that I can have an SBC built right here in Indiana that will put out over 1,000hp and be streetable. As in driven daily. Don't believe me? Check out the twin turbo Vette in the August '03 Chevy High Performance magazine. This guy was kicked out of the drag strip for not having a parachute.
I guess the point that I am trying to make, if I even have a point, is that Nissans make great vehicles to get in and drive everyday, be reasonably quick, get good mileage, are cheap to insure (mostly) and much fun to drive. AND they are a good value, which generally cannot be said for Hondas/Acuras. That isn't to say they're not good cars, because they are. You just don't get a lot for the money you would spend on one.
If you made it through this post, good job! You probably don't have A.D.D.!!!
It's not about having the most powerful car or the quickest quarter mile times. If that were the case, I would not have sold my '72 Camaro RS (ran a 406 SBC and it was nasty) and bought a 240. The Camaro was fun, streetable and very quick but didn't have the handling capability I was looking for. The 240 filled that gap nicely, being RWD and most importantly having an independent rear suspension. The design of the suspension is miles ahead of any musclecar suspension.
If you're looking for ultimate power production, the American muscle is where it's at. Sure, you can build an RB26 or a 2JZ but how much are you going to spend? Who is going to do the work? The fact is that I can have an SBC built right here in Indiana that will put out over 1,000hp and be streetable. As in driven daily. Don't believe me? Check out the twin turbo Vette in the August '03 Chevy High Performance magazine. This guy was kicked out of the drag strip for not having a parachute.
I guess the point that I am trying to make, if I even have a point, is that Nissans make great vehicles to get in and drive everyday, be reasonably quick, get good mileage, are cheap to insure (mostly) and much fun to drive. AND they are a good value, which generally cannot be said for Hondas/Acuras. That isn't to say they're not good cars, because they are. You just don't get a lot for the money you would spend on one.
If you made it through this post, good job! You probably don't have A.D.D.!!!
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jEzTeR
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Re: Re: wannabes
GatorS14 wrote:One word..................... TORQUE!!!
horsepower sells cars,torque wins races.
I was thinking the same thing.My Spec V only came out with 175hp but it has a good bit of torque to get it off of the line.Most VTEC's dont get real power untill you reach 5k rpm.I cant stand it myself.I drove a RSX-S the other day and even though I know the numbers it just seamed soft compared to my Spec V.
I do believe that respect is needed for all cars(at least the ones w/o led washer nozzles) and all people.
Pride in our brand is something that Nissan people have and always will have.Most people after owning a good Nissan will drive one forever.I know that any time that im looking for a new or diff. car I start at the Nissan/Infiniti dealership.
Just my opinion!:jester:
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iliketocrash
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Re: Re: Re: wannabes
Eklectrick wrote: . . . when it is backed up by horsepower.
that really doesn't make that much sense.... because i thought horsepower was derived from peak torque at a certain rpm divided by 6262... or something....
hp = torque * rpm/5252yeah, horsepower and torque are interelated. horsepower is how much torque you can use over a period of time.
but back to the main topic:kids with their '87 civic w/ automatic transmission, and spend hundred of dollars on aluminum wings, and 3 inch tachs (with shift light!) are just dumb. they bring the bad name to other people who drive honda's (and other imports) because they get so much attention. my friend has a prelude. yeah, I make fun of him sometimes 'cause his car is front wheel drive. but it's not a bad car. I've drivin it. the shifter is a little weird, 'cause the link cables and all...but it's not that I dislike honda's. it's that I prefer nissan.
but back to the main topic:kids with their '87 civic w/ automatic transmission, and spend hundred of dollars on aluminum wings, and 3 inch tachs (with shift light!) are just dumb. they bring the bad name to other people who drive honda's (and other imports) because they get so much attention. my friend has a prelude. yeah, I make fun of him sometimes 'cause his car is front wheel drive. but it's not a bad car. I've drivin it. the shifter is a little weird, 'cause the link cables and all...but it's not that I dislike honda's. it's that I prefer nissan.
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big jon's 240
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Eklectrick
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Re: Re: Re: Re: wannabes
iliketocrash wrote:that really doesn't make that much sense.... because i thought horsepower was derived from peak torque at a certain rpm divided by 6262... or something....
Yeah, I don't really know anything about HP vs Torque. I was realy trying to say that even tho torque matters and shouldn't be ignored, the same goes for HP.I think I'm gonna make a sig that says "I don't realy know anything about cars, so teach me please"