VQ35DE in S13 in progress.....

[Soravia]

I found a VQ30DE-T on ebay as well as a RWD VQ30.But there were no ECU or wiring and the other RWD VQ30 was a VQ30DD with direct injection. Better engine but no way to get other necessary parts for it.

I wish I can buy the intake manifolds though.

[irax]

whats stopping you from using the intake manifolds?

[Soravia]

No one sells JDM intake manifolds in US. And the Z intakes needs a 2 square feet hole on the hood. Won't go with the sleeper look I want on my cars.

[irax]

it doesnt need a 2 foot square hole in the hood

just remove the hood brace

[Soravia]

Anyone have the inside and out pics of the 350Z lower and upper intake manifold?I'm trying to see what it's like inside.

Thanks

[irax]

look on maxima.org

what are you trying to figure out?

[Soravia]

The intake runners and how they are shaped toward the inake ports.

I'll probably stick with a custom mod of the Maxima intake. It's smaller and narrower but it works for the 3.0 L engine I have.

[tfreker]

yo luv the engine luv the car deff saving to my favs

[SpecDRacing]

As the creator of this thread, I need to step in here for a second and help/correct a few things I've read. 1st, if you havent built one, dont work for nissan or have not been factory trained by Nissan, please limit your comments, as I am seeing alot of misleading information here.

ECU will only create a small amount of fuel mileage change. Aerodynamics, tire choice and size, cam phasing and duration along with individual driving charcteristics are what = up to gas mileage. I get up to 30 mpg from my high compression VQ in the white coupe. I get that with and without cam timing operating. The maxima ECM will NOT get you better or worse gas mileage. The HP restriction on the maxima is due to its engine configuration (FWD). The exhaust directions are for emissions, not for power, as with the intake manifold.

Someone asked about pics for the intake manifolds, they are already on this thread. Several pages back.

As for wheel size vs final drive for gas mileage purposes. If you install a taller final drive, you will lose more gas mileage then increasing total tire diameter. I'll break this down for you.

Taller and LIGHTER wheels will increase your one roll footprint. By decreasing weight, we already know we decrease the amount of power needed to turn that object. By increasing size, we can travel farther for any given amount of RPM.

5th gear is 1:1, the final drive in this example is 2:1 and the wheel has a 10 foot roll in one rotation. By the time the engine rotates 10 times, you have traveled 50 ft. Increase total diameter only, and you will add that amount of distance to that RPM.

By changing the final drive, you can can achieve this, but at a cost to the other gears. Overdrive mainly.

The load on the engine is determined by how much work it does with the amount of air and fuel it is using at a particular rpm. So if we are going 70 mph on 20" wheels in 6th gear, lets say we are at 2200 rpm. The wheels weigh the same as factory and the final drive is the same. At this point, we are spliing the load of the larger wheels by the final drive, this decreases the amount of work done by the engine to keep them spinning. This also lets us travel farther on the same crank rotation. Put in a taller final drive, and you will still travel farther on the stock wheels, but the engine will have an increased load over the wheels, due to the same rotational mass being fought by less application of engine torque. Also, the amount of load on the engine durring acceleration (which we do more of in city driving) is inecreased. Its like using a shorter fulcrom to lift the same object. It can move it just as fast, but will require more work.

VQ engines register this load as CAL/LD value in Data Monitor on Consult, which means I get a representation of how much air is being used vs the total amount that could be used. This directly relates to fuel economy, engine performance and idle quality.

The best thing to do is to properly match your tire size, wheel weight and effeciency rpm. This statement directly reflects the higher rpm comment from earlier. At higher RPM, more air is used, therefore, more fuel is used (generaly above 2300 rpm). Depending on the weight of your rotating mass (crank, flywheel, gears, driveshaft, final drive, axles and wheels...even oil viscosity), there will be a point where that weight is useful, and a point where it is hurtful.

VQ's like 1800-2200 rpm for fuel ecomonmy. It is no suprise that this is where the rotating mass also works well at a 1:1 or overdrive ratio. The less things weigh, the more this will change, but dont forget that too light and you loose momentum. The heavy flywheel in the Z is usefull in keeping things spinning at any sustained rpm.

Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. That directly relates to mas and fluctuation of velocity.

I could write about this for hours, but this is a thread for the VQ swap. I mean not to flame here, but if your not talking about a VQ swap, please start a new thread.

[Soravia]

Hmmm... I had the idea that even at the same weight, a larger wheel would require more power to turn because we're trying to rotate it from the inside of the wheel. It's like trying to close a large door by grabbing it from the inside, opposed to grabbing it from the outside.

no?

[SpecDRacing]

Also correct. A larger wheel requires more effort to turn. The difference here is the ratio. A change in tire diameter vs final drive ratio is significant to distance travled vs required work. The taller the gear, the more required from each piston to rotate the pinion enough to allow x amount of distance in x amount of time. Larger wheels will create the same problem, but are also the direct link to the pavement.

I guess there is happy meduim here to both arguments. Too big is too big,either way. The other thing is, most people not only go larger on the wheel, but wider on the tire, which increases friction and decreases fuel economy. Going from a 215 to a 195 and going larger would give better gas mileage.

Todays Nissans have mostly 3.6:1 ratios and less in the final drive, vs older nissans at 3.9:1 and greater. Also, todays Nissans are mostly larger than 16" wheel, where older nissans were pimpin if they came with factory 16's. ???? Guess the engineers figured all that out.

Good reply to my origional comments. We all gotta keep on thinking of ways to get better gas mileage cause the prices now might keep the VQ swap from happening more often!!!

[Soravia]

Actually the VQ gets better power to gas ratio than the KA or even the SR

According to my calculation, the VQ deliver more torque sooner than KA and at any given RPM makes more torque to engine Liter ratio.And that's with the first gen VQ30DE. later models with VVT would get even better mileage. I read about how the VQ25HR gets nearly 40 MPG on a JDM Skyline (G35) that's a 3300Lb car we're talking about. Even a 2600lb Celica 7th gen with 1.8 Liter I-4 and VVT-i gets 32 MPG at best on highway.

[irax]

The intake runners and how they are shaped toward the inake ports.

I'll probably stick with a custom mod of the Maxima intake. It's smaller and narrower but it works for the 3.0 L engine I have.

if there is any intake manifold you should try to emulate it should be this one

[Soravia]

You got more pics of it?

I found some pictures of the VQ35HR manifold.http://jimwolftechnology.com/vq35hr/index.htm

[Soravia]

Which would be more cost effective? cutting up a G35 driveshaft and weld in S13 end or just order a custom aluminum one?

[SpecDRacing]

My newest video. Hope you all like it!



Ready to do your swap yet?

[Soravia]

What rubber were you running on? I saw that it skid on every gear even with a medium throttle.

[Soravia]

Could you please provide pics on steering joint and exhaust manifold clearance? I'm trying to get some info before I buy an eGay stainless steel manifold.

Is it true that the lower the engine is mounted, the less there is clearance?

Thanks

[SpecDRacing]

E-Gay....LOL Funny....True! The clearance is very tight, like 6mm. I had to dent the outter shell of the manifolds. The stock manifolds have an inner layer and an outter layer. It wont hurt it to do that.

As for the tires in the video....almost brand new 245/45/18 Goodyear Eagle LS (stock Maxima tires). Very grippy. I have some Eagle F1's on the rear now (245/40/18) run flats. They spin alot more and are actually dangerous. I dont like them.

[Soravia]

Speaking of spinning tires, I noticed that my 215/45/17 KUMHO AST tires spin more than the 205/55/15 Avon Tech M500 I had before. And that's on a stock KA24DE.

A lot of people talk about hundred of HP but I don't hear people talking about their tire experience. All that power is not much use if they cannot be applied effectively.

What is the difference between the 350Z flywheel and Maxima (VQ30DE) flywheel? I know there is more thickness in the 350Z but I want to know about the ring for the crank position sensor.

[Soravia]

Anyone have close-up pics of 300ZX TT manifold? I believe it is the only Nissan manifold that actually has full dual intake design with one cylinder bank totally seperate from the other. (aside from the R35 GT-R manifold)The VQ35HR intake actually feeds into a single chamber.

[Scuffed_ChukiCoupe]

I read this entire freaking thread from last night took me 4 hours. I feel so stupid that im mad late to it , but im speechless. Like seriously speechless. SpecDRacing whoever you are i consider you as God now. Keep doing what you do, you should get alot out of this and i appreciate how you still help us nico memebers out with our questions at anytime. Makes me consider doing a vq swap sometime down the road.... This thread isnt stickied? wtf.

[Soravia]

I'm trying to make a NISMO butt-plug like yours. Is it possible to use a stock 240sx shifter parts?

Thanks

[VQ30DET S13]

keep up the good work SpecDRacing!

I found a VQ30DE-T on ebay as well as a RWD VQ30.But there were no ECU or wiring and the other RWD VQ30 was a VQ30DD with direct injection. Better engine but no way to get other necessary parts for it.

I wish I can buy the intake manifolds though.

What make you think that a 4th gen maxima ecu and wiring bits won't work on a vq30det? The vq30det is a rwd engine.

Here's a pic right after I shoe horned the det in there. It currently sits lower and further back than it did in this pic.

I'll sell you the intake manifold if you want it. I've decided to use the de-k 00VI instead. Although, I'll have to make a cowl hood for it

[Soravia]

DE-T is Turbo so compression and the rest are off for the Maxima NA ECU.VQ30DD (which I like best) is direct injection. Makes a lot of power with tuned ECU (up to 260 HP) but will spell trouble for Maxima ECU.

Can you give me the measurements for your mounts? Also, does it clear the steering rod? What exhaust manifold are you using?I'm planning to low and far back on my car as well.Thanks

I didn't know that the DE-K can flip over to the other side. Does all the bolts line up?

Could you get close up shots of your DET manifold?
Modified by Soravia at 4:38 PM 6/30/2008

[VQ30DET S13]

DE-T is Turbo so compression and the rest are off for the Maxima NA ECU.

None of that matters, all of the sensors are essentially the same. The only major difference is the injector sizing. IIRC, 240cc for the vq30de vs. 330cc for the vq30det. Basically the 4th gen ecu will work if you use a piggy back computer to compensate for the larger injectors. I'll be using an EMU with 740cc injectors. I'm 100% sure that the de ecu will run a det.

VQ30DD (which I like best) is direct injection. Makes a lot of power with tuned ECU (up to 260 HP) but will spell trouble for Maxima ECU.

There's a guy on maxima.org making 270 whp @ 7500 rpm with a vq30de-k

Can you give me the measurements for your mounts?

Sure.... but my mounts only work with rwd vq's (I''ll shoot you a pm)

Also, does it clear the steering rod?

The engine?? Of course it does.

DET exhaust manifolds?? Nope.

What exhaust manifold are you using?

Modified 350z ebay shorty headers. I will equally "Y" them together for the Holset HE351VE turbo that I'm using. This concept might make you scratch your head a bit. lol

I didn't know that the DE-K can flip over to the other side. Does all the bolts line up?

Yep, you have to cut it up a little, but, all in all, it fits pretty well. The ports and bolt holes are symmetrical from front to back. If I had used a DEK lower IM, it would have bolted right up, but I'm using the DET lower IM, which, IMO, it's the same as the DE lower IM. The four bolts in the middle line up, but the two on the ends don't. I just drilled new holes on each end of the DEK IM.

If you want to learn more about VQ's, go lurk the all motor section on maxima.org.

[Soravia]

I was referring to the injector timinng on the DD since the fuel is injected AFTER the intake valve closes.

I don't see how you will make a single turbo with an equal length Y pipe (better than Subaru turbo) but I'm guessing you'll put it infront?

[VQ30DET S13]

I was referring to the injector timinng on the DD since the fuel is injected AFTER the intake valve closes.

Oh, I wasn't talking about using a maxima ecu on a DD.

I don't see how you will make a single turbo with an equal length Y pipe (better than Subaru turbo) but I'm guessing you'll put it infront?

I was going to put in front, but the turbo that I'm using is bigger than I anticipated and it won't allow enough room for a radiator. I would also like to make a V mount intercooler setup and I cant do that if I put the turbo in front of the engine. Basically, I've decided to cut out a rectangular section of the firewall and mount the turbo behind the engine. The car is completely gutted and lightened so it doesn't really matter. I'll just make a sheet metal box around the turbo to seal up the engine compartment. Doing this also helps out with weight distribution. FYI, this turbo weighs 60lbs.

[Soravia]

That's a better idea than pulling the engine forward like the Subbies.

You'll probably have to redo the metal pipes under the dash and lose some HAVC pipes.

Any pics for the DET manifold?

[Soravia]

anyone have pics to compare between Maxima A32/A33 starter and Z33 starter?I'm thinking of using Maxima flywheel with a throwout bearing to make it easier on the flywheel+Sensor ring issue. Stock Z33 flywheel cannot be re-surfaced and is too heavy. Aftermarket Z33 flywheels don't really take the speed ring from Maxima too well. (unless they're about $600)

Thanks