VQ35DE in S13 in progress.....

[SpecDRacing]

Accordfreak,

Im not at an ASIST, so I am not 100% sure of these labels...but if my memory serves me correctly, this should be 99% correct. A few connectors are fuzzy looking on this pic so I wasnt sure. Also, I initialy labled the Purge Volume Control Valve connector wrong as the ECT sensor....easily done as they will plug into either sensor. It is the Purge Valve though.

On the right, there are two connections. One is a coil, the other is O2 sensor. Easy way to find an O2 sensor connection is that one of the three wires in the connector will have a clear sheath (meaning all you see is copper).

This is definately a 2003, M/T engine harness.

You had asked which one it was before, I figured I'd break it down so you know exactly what you have.

[accordfreak]

Accordfreak,

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hey specD thanks for the info! crazy how you know all the plugs by the picture!

[shinmei2006]

hey specD

no one from nissan doctor emailed me back.

[SpecDRacing]

Hey gang,

Not a KILL STORY.........BUT! I had one the best experiences (with this new car) tonight. Im not one for full out on the street, but the conditions were too perfect.

Setting, narrow curvy raod between a bunch of closed business, two lane with middle turning lane.

All I see in my review as I exit the interstate is two HID lights.....very low to the ground. Making a right turn off of the highway I was on, I catch a glimps of a sleek, long dark grey vehicle behind me. 50yrds to the next light and Im making a right onto this little winding road. Im in the turning lane making the right when the vehicle behind me follows. The street light over head illuminates the profile.......

"OH ****, Its a Porsche Carrera GT!!" My mind raced....this is a once in a lifetime oportunity, he's on my tail. Afterwards, my girl said all she heard me say was "Porsche".

I still haven't gotten a speedo/tach in yet, but I know when to shift. 2nd gear and two car lenghts open up......for about 1/10th of a second and he's right back on me. 3rd comes and goes as fast as the tires could chirp. 4th is introduced with a slight push to the side as the rear tires break away. By now I can feel myself sinking into the moment. My hands are gripping the wheel just right, the pedal feels asure on my right foot. The shifts change as smooth as a the key strokes on this keyboard. And with intense concentration, reality mixed with imagination. Im blasting down a back road with a half million dollar super car. Before the end of fourth, Im into the first sweeper......crappy tires and Im back into 3rd, Porsche steady keeping a distance from me....BY CHOICE!. Back on the throttle and I see him lose a bit of ground and begin to catch up. Into 4th he pullls to the center lane as if to say "If the road was long enough, I'd have you".......He's right. I know I cant beat this guy, but the opportunity to run with a supercar is rare.

Finally I reach the resturaunt Im headed for and slow to a stop. I have my left hand out the window with the typical, though redneck, thumbs up. From the center lane, he pulls past us (my girlfriend is in the passenger seat), and tells me to "Be carefull with that thing.". He lets me see what $440,000.00 looks like going sideways as he darts off through the next stop light.

Pulling into the resturaunt I get the same feeling I had when I was 16. That excited, but should'nt have done what I just did, feeling. I scan for cops before I shut the car down.....Lord knows I shouldn't have been going that fast on a public street. I look at my girlfriend and she is as calm as can be. She thaught I was just having fun with a Porsche untill she finaly was allowed to see what I was running from.....correction....getting caught by. The owner of the GT was as cool as could be, with the poise of someone who just stepped out of a spa. I guess I must have been pretty calm too or my girl would have picked up on it.

We sit down, have dinner, and of course, try to figure out exactly what that car was. It had been a long time since I'd seen a Carrera GT (used to wok on Porsches about 8 years ago, briefly). I knew it had to be a GT and when I got home, I confirmed it. 605 BHP, 435 F/LB Torque, 5.7L V10 and does 0-60 in 3.6 seconds.

And this guy tells me to be carefull with my car! Awesome experience. I only wish I would have had the traction to stick the turns like I know this car can! I have to give props to the GT owner. Not many owners of those cars have the nuts to experience the thrill they have to offer.

With all that said, DONT DO THIS! But we all will understand if you get that chance to run with a supercar. Just dont end up on the headlines.

Oh....and atleast he didnt pass me on the first straight! We all know the stock 240sx would have shut itself down should the driver think about running a car like that!

[offroadbob]

I can only thing I can say is... Freaking sweet!!! Great story!

[EMK]

How do you manage to be so lucky.... All I can do is dream of such unbelievable experiences..... Aaaahhhh one day.

Thanks for the inspiration.

[S3t0_S13]

wow thats super badazzz man

[ghettoslide]

Man i have been trying to read all of this forever. I have a new baby and 2 s13s in the yard. The baby put the cars on hold and i am making plans on what to do. The '91 is going supercharged KA, The '90 was planed for a VQ30 until i read this. It is now being slated for a VQ35 thanks to you. One thing i would need from you though. I must have been fed some increadibly wrong info, because i planed on the VQ30 for the simpleness of the wiring due to it not having the can bus. I knew it had less power, but i was not aware it was that much power. Since you have paved the way to install with the stock 350 ecu this is a must due. Can you or will you post the wiring conversion from the already existing wires in the 240 and the 350 ecu that need to be put together. Or would it be better to try and get the wiring harness from the 350 as well.This is by far the most informative write up i have ever seen. Thanks for all the info and support you give us nicoholics. I want to be just like you when i grow up.

[gregfarz78]

WOW excellent write up I registered after spending over an hour skimming this thread. Has anyone tried the AEM EMS? Sounds a lot less complicated than using a stock 350z ECU but of course a lot more expensive. I'm undecided which way to go still, I sourced a 04 350z engine and 05 6 spd trans

[myS13wantsaVQ35]

hey, it has been a while, I got back 2k from Zfever. The motor alredy started knocking and the battery dies in about a week. I was unable to work on the car until all the credit card disputes were over. I am fixing the knocking and getting a guy in Atl to tune the AEM ecu. Then starting on a turbo kit for my 240. Thanks again for all of your help.

[Neejay]

Updates?

[offroadbob]

anything new w/ the car?

[SpecDRacing]

Really, I know what the knocking is (only when its cold right, in the morning)? And the battery dieing in a week is due to the wrong 12V supply wires being used. The wiring diagrams in the S13 manual are wrong for a few of the source wires. They are on constantly, even though it shows them to be only on with the KEY. I actually did this mistake on the first VQ35 swap I did, and it had to be corrected.

As for my updates, its been slow. Just been driving the car and working. I havent even gotten the speedo or tach in yet....or the 04-06 ECM (automatic) that I got for it. I did manage to put it on the dyno.

250HP at 6500 rpm (not that impressive)250 lb/ft torque from 1800rpm all the way through 6800rpm (that IS impressive).

Plans are in the works for a much better exhaust, as it can be seen that it is very restrictive, especially with the Maxima muffler. Probably losing 25 HP from that. The ECM needs to be changed to get the 30-40 HP Im missing not running IVT. I've just havent had the hour of time to swap it. The Air/Fuel was way too rich too, about 11.5:1, which means either I drop the fuel presure some, or I add a blower! > May do that.

I did find something new you guys might like. The Sentra SE-R Vspec (new model) comes with 8" and 3" rear deck speakers. This is from the Rockford Fosgate system. They are both on a housing and there is one pair per side of the deck. Now either these speakers are REALLY cheap, or NIssan messed up pricing them, but I got them for $12.00 each. I put them in all four corners of the car (total $55.00 in speakers). I ran all new speaker wiring from a Sony 4 channel amp (cheapo from Walmart, about $100). It sounds good with the 10" in the rear too, but still needs some work. Heres a few pics.



Thats the front door. I had to trim one of the ears off to get it mounted and remove an edge in the door. I will need to make a 1/2" spacer to fit behind these to bring them out enough for the window to fully go down. Then I will need to trim the door panel and extend the grille area to acomodate for the larger speakers.



This is the rear deck. My interior here was pretty shot, so it was no big deal to toss it. I will need to lay carpet down and build a grille here as well. The openings for the factory speakers only had to be cut in (towards the center of the car) by about an inch to allow for the wires to pass through.



Here's the amp all tucked in under the passenger seat. This is with the seat in the full forward position. Please excuse me for the mess in my car......we all know how project cars go though! I wired the speakers to be 6 ohms each for clarity. Im not completely happy with the 3" speakers up front, so I will remove them and in stall some 5 1/4's higher up in the door. Once thats done, and all the panels are made/modified, I should have a pretty good sound system for cruising.......which again, was my goal with this car.

Maybe one day I'll have the money for a corvette, but after I'd put all this time into this car....would I want one???? What am I thinking, hell yeah I'd want one!

Later gang!
Modified by SpecDRacing at 6:12 AM 1/27/2008

[Neejay]

Cool, just keep us updated!

Whats the part number for the speakers?

[Soravia]

I'm following your thread like everyone else.

I have question regarding the VQ35DE and VQ35HR.

If both of them gets a custom ECU treatment and a few other things beside the internal engine components, which can rev higher? Or are they the same on friction loss?

How much does the VQ35DE weight?

[SpecDRacing]

Weight of the VQ35DE is about 300lbs, I think. I've never actually weighed one, but others have. It is less than the KA though.

Rev higher is relative the valvetrain componenets, rod ratios and rotating mass. The shorter the stroke, the higher the rev. The VQ35HR is a 4.0L block (120mm bore) with a 3.5L crank (not the same as the DE). The main bearings are larger (equals thicker crank), accompanied by a longer rod. The longer rod on the same stroke reduces the rod to piston raio, which increases maximum safe rev limitations.

So, to answer your question, the VQ35HR...but, you have to remember, you are talking about a completely different motor than the VQ35DE. It's like compariong a Porsche 305 with a Chevy 305. Same displacement, different engines. Nothing other than the pistons, some gaskets and cams can be swapped from the HR to the DE.

Here's the Part Number for those speakers I posted pictures of:

28138-ET200

They are max rated at 72 watts. I found that 35 watts is about as much as should be used, with proper input signal voltage. At 60 watts, they just wanted to come apart. This being said, the amplifier in most aftermarket head units should be sufficient for these. The only thing I would highly recommend is adding a high pass filter to the 3" speaker. If the speakers are run parallel, you will have 1.5 ohms of resistence, which will burn up any head unit and cause most amplifiers to go into circuit protection. If run series, they are 6 ohms. You can run them series and still high pass the 3", just make sure its on the correct wire. Tweeters are still needed.

I tried running the rear 8"ers on a low pass filter of 160 Hz, with 65 watts. The bass was comprible to one 10" subwoofer, but without the depth. If the trunk and rear deck were properly sealed, Im sure these could replace my one 10" sub, but I doubt they could handle the abuse for long.

In the end, at a retail price of $17-$22 each, I'd say they are a steal!

[myS13wantsaVQ35]

it is knocking all the time, its so loud that you can hear it knocking over a cell phone. It started on my way back from a car show, I did not hear it until I pulled up in my yard. The exhaust is so freaking loud, so I could not hear the knock until I was going really slow. My father is looking into the knocking and when that is done I will take it to Atl to get the engine tuned and I am looking into a single turbo kit. Thanks again and I might bring it up your way to get my speedometer working.

[jamesblonde82]

i've been watching this thread for awhile, awesome work, great skillz! after graduating i was going to treat myself to taking my s13 vert all the way out to cali to get the vqswap guys to do my car for me...all this instead of getting something new. besides it'd be cheaper. but i like your idea of using the stock ecm vs. standalone. and just the simple fact you are a nissan tech.

i think i would much rather have you working on my car than them guys. poor ol KA has 200k miles on it but still runs strong. so tired of having a wimpy car. i think i will def be hitting you up to make my nissan better when i get out of school (1.5yrs)

just for fun, pic of me doing a burnout... yay for small tires and open diff! lol

[Alteus]

Well, I've been following this thread too, and have decided to go with either this or a VH into my S14. Your posts have been very helpful and will no doubt make it easier for me to do the swap. I have a question, though. Several times you mentioned that a VQ35 can make 350+ HP at the wheels, with only bolt ons, and a good tune using a system such as a Greddy E-Manage. How can this be possible? My stock G35 only put down 235HP to the wheels. Are you telling me I can pick up over 100HP just by basic mods plus a tune?

[SpecDRacing]

You might be slightly mistaken. My mention of 350 wheel HP is WITH the high rev pistons installed to my engine. Thats not a bolt on. While everthing else I have done will put a regular VQ35 at 300 to the wheels (most I've seen or heard of at this time is 285hp), to reach the 350 mark, your going to need a bit more. Im not saying it cant be done. For example, when the 12A rotory engine came out in the RX7, it was said to not exceed 200hp, yet now we build them regularly to 250+ with stock rotors. For a VQ it will require a bit more work.

First, the lower intake manifold will need some serious work. It should be opened up as much as possible while retaining the correct taper in order to keep port velocity high enough for fuel vaporization. The 35th anniversary lower plenum would need a nice extrude hone, and the bells polished out, as well as the plenum areas to allow for maximum port velocity exhange (the shift of pressure from one cylander to the next when the valves open/close). The cylander heads could be cut to match the lower manifold if its hogged out, but not much, they are already pretty close. Choice of cam would be above 260 degrees, but not more than 280. The higher duration cams tend to have a bit more lift, and the stock valvetrain wouldnt handle it. The upper plenum could use the spacer, or a nice aftermarket unit, but again would need polishing. The throttle body would need to be changed, maybe from a 4.0 or 4.5L. Even the intake piping from the filter would need to be the correct diameter and length for proper volume control. The exhaust would need to be a very nice piece of art. The headers would need to be made specific for this build, and only after having the heads and intake manifolds flow benched. By doing this, a very close estimate of the amount of exhaust produced, could be used to determine specific tubing diameter and length, in order to scavange the cylanders properly. Finaly, after all that was done, the computer would need be the stuff dreams are made of. Cam timing is a key component, and if you have the later model VQ35DE engines (06 manual trans), you get to play with the exhaust valve timing too. Tuned right, this can produce a sort of false compression bump, which allows for plenty more power. Throw on the lightweight flywheel and underdrive pulleys and you might just make 400hp from the VQ35DE. That should equate to about 330-345 wheel hp.

[SpecDRacing]

UPDATE

So the question had been raised as to if an auto ecm will work. I installed one this week to see. First, I thought it might work just fine. The car started fine (after programming my key), idled fine, and even reved nicely. On the road it was a different game. While the initial tip in was better, and partial throttle was better, this was due to the intake timing advance, which I dont have with the 06 ecm (because I dont have exh valve timing on the motor, which the ecm is looking for...since its not there, the int valve timing is cancled as well). Full throttle sucks. Throttle angle and timing are retarded. Since the ECM is not recieving any signals from the transmission control unit, it can not determine if the TCC (torque converter clutch) is enganged, as well as what gear or shift point the transmission is in. Since it is not recieving these signals, it governs the throttle angle and timing, in an attempt to not damage the transmission.

Needless to say I was not thrilled, having to drive around for 3 days while this ECM learns my engine, only to find out it was all in vane. I'd say the hp and torque loss was near 40%. I could have been spanked by a Civic DX.

So yes, you can get your VQ running on an Auto ECM, but no, it will not be fast, and no it will not work properly.

The 06 ECM is back in, and 5th gear again chirps on the freeway!

[Soravia]

To my knowledge, all the VQ35DE swaps require the hood to be modded for clearance. Is that correct?

[irax]

unless some one makes an intake manifold just for it but yes, you do have to modify the hood or just use hood spacers.

[Soravia]

That's why I'm thinking VQ25HR instead.

[SpecDRacing]

No, the hood does not have to be modified if you use lower engine mounts, trim the cradle about 1" and reweld it, then shorten the oil pickup and put a flat lower pan on. It will sit within the engine bay. We have done this recently. With the KA removed, cut into the cradle/crossmemeber about 1.25 inches, from the center out 6" both directions. By lowering the top of the crossmember, you can sit the engine lower. All the power steering lines need to be moved down, but it will work. Just make sure the new steel top is welded in good, and is thick enough to handle the presures that are on the crossmemeber. After thats done, the hood will still need to have the bracing removed, but it fits in its normal location.

[SpecDRacing]

Hey gang,

Another new development. Maybe someone has done this, but I havent found anything on it yet.

So, for you guys who want the 5 lug conversion, with bigger rear brakes (J30 or 300Z), and want to keep the parking brake setup used with these rotors, here's the best way I have found to do it.

Three steps!!!!

1) Go to the Junk yard and find a 94 or newer Infiniti J30. Unbolt the axle from the differential. Unbolt and unhook the parking brake cables above the driveshaft (they need to come with the spindles). Unbolt the struts, upper arms, sway bar end links, and lower control arms from the spindles. Remove the spindle with the axle. Keep the rear rotors and calipers from the J30.

2) Remove all the same crap from your 240.

3) DIRECTLY bolt on the J30 spindles, axles, parking brake cables, struts, rotors and calpers.

You now have a rear 5 lug conversion, with bigger brakes, a functional parking brake and you didnt even have to change the rear struts (300Z spindles require you to change the rear struts).

If you want to use the two piston rear calipers, just install them instead of the J30 calipers.

Also, the 93 and early 94 J30 parts can be used, but you cant use the axles from those years unless you install the J30 LSD from those years. Its a five bolt flange rather than a split 6 bolt flange. Your stock 240SX axles will fit the J30 hubs if you need to change the J30 axles out.

So there it is, a bolt on solution for the rear 5 lug/big brake conversion, all in one.

I paid $65.00 for both rear spindles (minus axles) and cables from the junkyard. Once I get them on, I'll post pictures. Also, those pictures will inlude the removal of the Maxima caliper/J30 bracket brakes that I had on there for the 4 lug setup.

The front 5 lug for my car is coming new from Nissan for the S14 SE model. They cost me $88.00 each (ouch!!!), but atleast the whole 5 lug conversion is only costing $261.00, and I get bigger brakes that work perfectly in the rear!!!!

Later gang!!!!

[irax]

No, the hood does not have to be modified if you use lower engine mounts, trim the cradle about 1" and reweld it, then shorten the oil pickup and put a flat lower pan on. It will sit within the engine bay. We have done this recently. With the KA removed, cut into the cradle/crossmemeber about 1.25 inches, from the center out 6" both directions. By lowering the top of the crossmember, you can sit the engine lower. All the power steering lines need to be moved down, but it will work. Just make sure the new steel top is welded in good, and is thick enough to handle the presures that are on the crossmemeber. After thats done, the hood will still need to have the bracing removed, but it fits in its normal location.

yeah, but thats a lot more work than just putting on hood spacers and calling it a day.

[Neejay]

yeah, but thats a lot more work than just putting on hood spacers and calling it a day.

Yeah, especially for a DIY-ish/Drop in swap.

[SpecDRacing]

I agree, but if your able to do all the fabrication this swap requires, then dropping 1" off of the crossmember wont be hard. But for just droping it in, yeah, you'll have to bulge the hood like my car.

[Soravia]

After spending $7K in a swap. I don't think a nasty drag racer style hood is a good idea on a sleeper car.

Fabbing a cross-member is a better idea.

Which would be easier? Modding the S13 crossmember or modding the Z33 crossmember?I'd put in the Z33 double wish-bone, cross-member, struts and brakes if I was doing a swap like that.

After all that you're doing on the S13, won't the car be too light for the 330HP and 280 Torque something engine you'll end up with?

350Z weights up to 3600lb. Your S-13 will weight less than 2600lb, maybe even 2500lb.