Vh45de swap into my 1997 Q45?

[jarred15801]

How hard would it be to swap a vh45de into my car? I found a motor for about $500 bucks and figured i could sell mine for around the same and break even. The reason ia sk is i was thinking about supercharging my car but after i did some reasearch and read around on the forums it seems like the vh45 is a much better platform to start with. How hard would it be to swap in? Clearance issues? wiring? transmission? will it bolt up?Any help would be a appreciated. thanks

[konatown]

There isn't going to be any clearance issues. But the 1990-95 VH45DE is an OBD I motor, the 96 VH45DE is an OBD II motor but lacks the VTC and makes significantly less torque. So you'll have a wiring/electrical nightmare.

[SuperHatch]

Motor mounts are in a different location and the bellhousing to engine bolt pattern is different. Sumps are the same shape, so crossmember clearance shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure if the bell length is the same between the two cars, but if it is you can use the VH45 bell on your stock trans, then use whichever torque converter you'd like.

If you're really interested in this swap I could do it for you.

Another option is to put a VH45 crank and pistons into your VH41 to make it 4.5L. I have a spare 97 VH41 block that I could build to 4.5L if you'd like.

[jarred15801]

Motor mounts are in a different location and the bellhousing to engine bolt pattern is different. Sumps are the same shape, so crossmember clearance shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure if the bell length is the same between the two cars, but if it is you can use the VH45 bell on your stock trans, then use whichever torque converter you'd like.

If you're really interested in this swap I could do it for you.

Another option is to put a VH45 crank and pistons into your VH41 to make it 4.5L. I have a spare 97 VH41 block that I could build to 4.5L if you'd like.

Just by swapping the crank and pistons of a vh45 into vh41 still wouldn't make it any more reliable under boost and more hp though would it? Aren't there other differences? By the way this is a usdm vh41 i have.

[maxnix]

VH41DE don't have the cradle reinforcement.

For supercharging, I always thought the 1996 VH45DE would be best to tune, but you would have to provide the ECM or crack the OEM ECM encryption. I think the cam lift and timing is different also.

Could be a whole lot of money to do it right.

[SuperHatch]

VH41DE don't have the cradle reinforcement.

For supercharging, I always thought the 1996 VH45DE would be best to tune, but you would have to provide the ECM or crack the OEM ECM encryption. I think the cam lift and timing is different also.

Could be a whole lot of money to do it right.

The cradle from the 45 can be put in a 41 if you use the 45 main bolts... The JDM 41's have girdles.

I agree on the 45 statement.

[jarred15801]

Starting to sound pretty expensive if i swapped to a vh45. Any idea how much boost i could run on my motor stock? I can get it tuned very well by someone i know so i won't have to worry about bad tuning destroying it. But what kind of numbers could i expect and how much boost you guys think i could run? Supercharged, supercharged and intercooled, supercharged and meth injection, supercharged intercooled and meth injection?

[Carl H]

turbo is much cheaper...also does this person have the capability to tune the ecu...its a flash based ecu iirc.

[jarred15801]

Why would it be much cheaper? With supercharging you don't have to run an intercooler or redo the exhaust. Just supercharger, intake tube, bracket, couple oil lines, belts, and pullies. I would imagine we would be able too. He tunes pretty much everything, is a teacher at Wyotech in Blairsville, PA, has his own shop and some other s*** too.

[Q45tech]

The Federal Clean Air Act PROHIBITS swaping in a larger displacement or older year engine in any car produced since 1990.They ignore 90-95 since they are tested for emissions on a dyno but 1996 and newer are easy to spot by reading the VIN vs ecu identifier by the States computer.

[AZhitman]

If you MUST have more reliable power in the Q, skip all the above. Get an LSx-series front clip and go for real N/A power.

Regardless of the route you take, you're looking at a big-money project.

[jarred15801]

Well how about this, how much power is my usdm vh41 good for? How much boost could it run without worrying about it? 6 psi 8 psi? how big of injectors?

[AZhitman]

You're asking about uncharted waters here.

The VH45 was proven to be fine at 5-6psi without anything more than a fuel pump upgrade (even with stock ECU).

Still, you're in new territory there, and I'd recommend anything you do be monitored closely with a wideband, and be prepared to get into injectors and possibly a standalone EMS. Problem is, by that time, you've dropped a lot of $$$ on parts.

[AZhitman]

Why would it be much cheaper? With supercharging you don't have to run an intercooler or redo the exhaust. Just supercharger, intake tube, bracket, couple oil lines, belts, and pullies. I would imagine we would be able too. He tunes pretty much everything, is a teacher at Wyotech in Blairsville, PA, has his own shop and some other s*** too.

That's how all unfinished projects start.

The word "just" in there tells me you've never built a boosted car, and an aftercooler of some sort is almost mandatory, as is changing the exhaust, if only to allow for better flow.

[Carl H]

having poked and prodded at the vh ecu the stock fuel map is a fantastic base for an FI car...only the ign map would need tweaking...and even then its still a good base.

[jarred15801]

That's how all unfinished projects start.

The word "just" in there tells me you've never built a boosted car, and an aftercooler of some sort is almost mandatory, as is changing the exhaust, if only to allow for better flow.

That's true i haven't built a boosted car but my friends that would help me have done a bunch now. It seems to me when i look at it that supercharging would be much easier then turbo charging, alot less to deal with. I don't see why it's almost mandatory for an aftercooler? For a turbocharger i see why, but why needed on a supercharger? They don't get nearly as hot do they? I allready have exhaust work done, maybe just have to do somthign with the exhaust manifolds, but i still believe that would be cheaper then getting alot of hard bends and welds done to route to a turbo.

[AZhitman]

"Friends" won't cut it. YOU need to comprehend what's being done. "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Read it.

Let me ask you this, and then we'll move forward: Are you prepared to spend $10K? Honestly, just say yes or no.

There is an abandoned S/C Q45 project rotting away in FL - It's there because the owner, who has a substantial income, got sick of pouring $ into it.

There's a couple turbocharged Q45's here and abroad - ask them what kind of scratch they invested.

[jarred15801]

No im not ready to spend 10k. How could it even come close to costing that much?

[SuperHatch]

That's true i haven't built a boosted car but my friends that would help me have done a bunch now. It seems to me when i look at it that supercharging would be much easier then turbo charging, alot less to deal with. I don't see why it's almost mandatory for an aftercooler? For a turbocharger i see why, but why needed on a supercharger? They don't get nearly as hot do they? I allready have exhaust work done, maybe just have to do somthign with the exhaust manifolds, but i still believe that would be cheaper then getting alot of hard bends and welds done to route to a turbo.

If you want the main bearing beam, get one from a 45, get the main bolts from a 45, drop the pan, pull the stock main bolts, then put in the beam with the new bolts and follow the factory torque sequence.

I'd say the US 41 is just as strong at 5-6lb as any of the other VH motors. 5-6lb is barely breathing hard, honda d-series crap lives at that boost level all day and they have no beam, only 2 bolts per main, toothpick rods, etc. As stated, you're venturing into uncharted waters, but I wouldn't even think twice about it.

S/C actually generate more heat than turbo cars, especially roots setups. But from reading your posts, I think you're referring to a centri setup. In that case, you can get away without an aftercooler, but why risk it? In the grand scheme of cost, an ebay FMIC will add ~$300 to your project, do it for the peace of mind.

The US VH41 uses 270cc injectors from the factory, the same as the KA24DE and Phase 2 NA Z32. This leaves very little headroom for additional fuel capacity. At conservative AFRs on pump gas these injectors will give you enough fuel for about 380WHP, whereas the 370cc injectors on the phase 2 VH45s would net you about 500WHP max. Start looking for some injectors.

[AZhitman]

No im not ready to spend 10k. How could it even come close to costing that much?

Because it can.

I don't want to be rude, but just because you see a "turbo kit" on ebay for $249.99, that's not realistic.

Any idea what a good supercharger (or turbo) even costs? Piping? Bracketry? Mandrel bends? Couplers? Clamps? Welds? Intercooler? Oil lines? Pullies? Belts? ECU reflash? Wideband O2? AFR gauge? Injectors? Fuel pump? Pressure regulator?

Let's not forget all the fluids, dyno time, and tons of other stuff that crops up during a build...

Oh, and then you're boosting a car that's probably got a ton of miles on it, hasn't been adequately maintained, and likely needs a trans soon... maybe a rear diff... Cooling system may not be adequate, and the brakes certainly won't be.

Again - Build one (or many) and you'll see how it can add up.

[jarred15801]

Yes i was talking about a centrifugal s/c. Do the 370cc injectors from the vh45 work in the vh41?

[jarred15801]

No i was not referring to a "turbo kit" on ebay. I was just estimating around $2000 to s/c my car. It has just over 100k miles on it, it has properly been maintained and serviced at a nissan garage by the previous owner, i bought it about 10k miles ago and have always changed all fluids regularly, spark plugs, filters, and knock sensors. Dynotime and tuning will not be expensive, my friend just put a turbo on his honda and had probably 6 hours of tuning and dyno time by the guy we know at Wyotech and he only charged $200. So that part wont be an issue.

[AZhitman]

You estimated low.

Hell, the kit for my G35 retails for $5K+ and that's not including all the stuff I added to make it REAL reliable.

Plus, you're gonna need custom fabrication.

Seriously, you have a lot of research ahead. But we're here for ya.

[Carl H]

hondas can be tuned with a salad fork and a ball of twine...there are so many different honda rom tuning programs its not even funny.heres a serious tip, go buy maximum boost by corky bell and have a good read...then come back and tell us you want to do this and are willing to spend the coin to do it right.

to supercharge the vh i'd put material cost for parts and raw materials at atleast 5-6k for good parts.to turbo i'd say 2-3k...then again i have been building cars and tuning them for almost 5 years now.

[AZhitman]

100K miles on a Q transmission means you're past-due.

$3K+ just for a good reman from Level 10, and that's not including an upgraded torque converter (you'll need that).

[jarred15801]

100K miles on a Q transmission means you're past-due.

$3K+ just for a good reman from Level 10, and that's not including an upgraded torque converter (you'll need that).

I agree my transmisson could be working a lil better, but isn't a Level 10 overkill if im just looking for 350rwhp. I found a Q transmission out of a 2000 with 30k miles for $150 bucks by the way. I was planning on buying that.

[jarred15801]

I

hondas can be tuned with a salad fork and a ball of twine...there are so many different honda rom tuning programs its not even funny.heres a serious tip, go buy maximum boost by corky bell and have a good read...then come back and tell us you want to do this and are willing to spend the coin to do it right.

to supercharge the vh i'd put material cost for parts and raw materials at atleast 5-6k for good parts.to turbo i'd say 2-3k...then again i have been building cars and tuning them for almost 5 years now.

I belive you guys, i'm not trying to be an a** about anything. And i know you guys have more knowledge on this matter then i do. Just trying to figure some things out and find out how it could be so expensive.

[AZhitman]

I agree my transmisson could be working a lil better, but isn't a Level 10 overkill if im just looking for 350rwhp. I found a Q transmission out of a 2000 with 30k miles for $150 bucks by the way. I was planning on buying that.

That's 150 MORE rwhp than you have. If you have 100K miles, you may even be lower than that.

You won't see 350 with mild boost, either.

Seriously, we're playing games here - You need to do some reading in ANY of the forced induction forums here on NICO.

Also, search for posts by elwesso about supercharging a Q, we did this dance 6 years ago. I walked away from the project.

[jarred15801]

350 rwhp isn't possible? If i was running 6 psi, and i can get an AEM meth injection kit for $225 shipped, and a front mount for $250 shipped.

Will the 370cc injectors out of the vh45 work in the vh41?

[jarred15801]

Is their software for the vh41 ecu or would i pretty much have to get a stand alone ecu? If so then that'll be expensive and im gonna stop right there.