V8 Coupe almost done!!

[LTWON]

if you going to compare, compare apples to apples. Ford 4.6 32valve v8 320hp/340trq non supercharged.Cant forget about the all new "OUTDATED" 500hp Z06 Pushrod motor, that no one can compete with at lemans

[Heavy D]

Freethinker,

What suspension setup are you using? I'm considering a V8 swap of some sort into my 240, but I just bought KYB AGX's and Eibach Pro's, so I wouldn't want them to go to waste. Does the added weight require custom springs/coilovers?

[GrilledCheese33]

nice, that car is gonna be sick when youre done! BTW, where in FL are you at?

[fatboy]

Freethinker,

What suspension setup are you using? I'm considering a V8 swap of some sort into my 240, but I just bought KYB AGX's and Eibach Pro's, so I wouldn't want them to go to waste. Does the added weight require custom springs/coilovers?

you'd definitely need upgraded suspension.

[PalmerWMD]

sarcasim oll the car looks prettyu good but why a v8 swap? why not just buy a american car to do that.?

Its great motor all aluminum too

But most importantly:A nissan V8 is a more more proper and satisfying swap to an Enthusiast.

[SeanDean]

sTm[-HeavyHips]I gug it up cause I made it, I never though id see someone doin it in real life and I think it will look freakin sweet when hes done w/the car.

You mean you put the car in the background...

My friend made the original pic for me using 2 of GP Sports' pictures for their bodykits.

Let's see... I'll try to touch on everyones comments

Cost.... The engine with wiring and MAFS plus a J30 diff and Q45 subframe was $1850. I found a Z33 6spd on ebay for $92 but shipping was like triple that.

transmission is not in the car yet, so I'll know next week how much the tunnel needs to be cut and welded.

I picked the S13 because I really like the body lines, and I like them even more with the Kouki S14 front. To me it looks better than the Kouki S14 as a whole.

BTW a guy in Tampa did a 350Z engine in an S13 hatch, and a couple guys on FreshAlloy have done the Maxima VQ30 with the 350Z 6spd.

West Yokohama makes the original S14 front on S13 fenders and I think the fenders I'm using are probably copies of the West Yokohama ones or maybe MASA.

As for comparing this engine to other engines, it's about average for a DOHC V8. Maybe a little on the low side in HP and torque, but remember it's a 4.1L, not a 4.5. It will be nice on boost anyway

Oh, and the 500hp Z06 motor and LeMans....... not to get too far off topic here but pushrod motors only succeed when the otehr engines are handicapped. If regulated to the same displacement as the other engines and/or the same intake restrictor size, then they will always be beat by more sophisticated engines. If that wasn't true then no one would have ever wasted time developing better technologies like DOHC. Look at the Offenhausers that dominated Indy for almost 20 years, designed in the 50's they still are comparable to modern designs internally. That said, the C6 Corvette team is a great race team and they would have won Sebring too had they not had a few mistakes. The cars themselves were quicker than the Aston Martins, but in racing these days everything is equalized, no advantages allowed. That's why I have turned to drifting. No strict regulations, it comes down to car control... thats pure.

Ok, enough ranting

If you do a V8 swap on your street 240sx be prepared to add some weight. Even if you keep weight out of the front end and maintain your distribution like I have, you're gonna add a little. But keeping the balance should keep your suspension working properly. I think the lightest easily available V8's these days are the LS1/LS2/LS6 series. Around 500lbs, they are supposedly a little lighter than the Q45 aluminum V8 for obvious reasons of the extra cams valves and large heads on the Q motor. Just get your battery in back, run some electric power steering in back and change to carbon hood and fenders. It should offset the difference.

And I live near West Palm Beach. Car will be attending drift events shortly. check http://www.Ter-Tech.com for schedule of places to see the car.

Last but definitely not least, I got it running last night!!!!

http://media.putfile.com/first-run-Video000

Or the direct link if you'd rather save target:http://x700.putfile.com/videos/24501203833.3g2

File opens with QuickTime. Quality is so-so, the only thing we had handy was my friend's camera phone. That's Tim from Ter-Tech doing the throttle as I started the engine.

-Sean

http://www.Ter-Tech.com

[InsanityInc]

if you going to compare, compare apples to apples. Ford 4.6 32valve v8 320hp/340trq non supercharged.Cant forget about the all new "OUTDATED" 500hp Z06 Pushrod motor, that no one can compete with at lemans

It is outdated. You're forgetting that it's 6L. Go look up the specs on some 6.0L DOHC high performance engines. They make a LOT more than 500hp.

[SeanDean]

7Liters actually

-Sean

[InsanityInc]

7Liters actually

-Sean

The Z06 has a 7L? That's just sad.

I can think of a UK supercar that had a 7.7L engine and had over 1000whp. Yay. Hell, the F430 has 495 horsepower and a 4.3L engine.

But yeah, pushrods are totally the way to go.

Modified by InsanityInc at 3:50 AM 9/5/2005
Modified by InsanityInc at 3:50 AM 9/5/2005

[k6kicker]

i dont care much for hp/liter stats...what really matters is hp/pound...pushrods are still used for a reason (in certain cases)

[Chingon]

The Z06 has a 7L? That's just sad.

I can think of a UK supercar that had a 7.7L engine and had over 1000whp. Yay. Hell, the F430 has 495 horsepower and a 4.3L engine.

But yeah, pushrods are totally the way to go.

Modified by InsanityInc at 3:50 AM 9/5/2005

Modified by InsanityInc at 3:50 AM 9/5/2005

does this dohc engine also weight ~430 lbs fully dressed, measure 20.43" x 18.11" x 9.235-9.245", cost what the ls7 does, and still get good mpg? I'm sorry, but this liter/hp ratio is completely marketing bs now adays.

Snobs may dismiss pushrods as "dinosaur-era" but when GM is building small-blocksthat makes more power, are more fuel efficient, and are lighter, smaller andcheaper than equivalent overhead-cam V8 engines,who's really the fool?"-HotRod Magazine
Modified by Chingon at 9:19 PM 9/5/2005

[Dookie]

I can think of a UK supercar that had a 7.7L engine and had over 1000whp. Yay. Hell, the F430 has 495 horsepower and a 4.3L engine.But yeah, pushrods are totally the way to go.

Yeah, but what those engines do that ferarri doesnt is that they are cheap to make. The 350 and 302 are cheap to find engines that still kick ***. A ferarri engine will cost you and arm, leg, and first born

[Deadrodent]

yeah an oil change in a ferrari probably costs more than making 500whp in an ls1.

CHEVY V8'S FOR LIFE NUKKA!!!

[SeanDean]

does this dohc engine also weight ~430 lbs fully dressed, measure 20.43" x 18.11" x 9.235-9.245", cost what the ls7 does, and still get good mpg? I'm sorry, but this liter/hp ratio is completely marketing bs now adays.

Snobs may dismiss pushrods as "dinosaur-era" but when GM is building small-blocksthat makes more power, are more fuel efficient, and are lighter, smaller andcheaper than equivalent overhead-cam V8 engines,who's really the fool?"-HotRod Magazine

Modified by Chingon at 9:19 PM 9/5/2005

Damnn my thread got totally JACKED!.... But I might as well add a lil bit here. Pushrods are a part of the valvetrain. They don't make an engine inherently different. It's still an otto cycle, 4 stroke, internal combustion, piston V8 engine.

Defending pushrods is fine, but they really don't have any advantages when it comes to performance. If the lower weight and smaller dimensions were enough to make up for the performance penalty of having 2valves per cylinder in a non-pentroof combustion chamber (see I didnt say specifically pushrod), then be absolutely sure that Formula One teams would use it. There is always a tradeoff. Like I mentioned before, if there were not concessions made toward pushrod/2valve engines in racing classes, then no one would use them.

The point is a modern 4 valve engine will make more power and torque from less displacement than the same size pushrod (assuming 2 valve) engine. You can have pushrod pentrood 4valve engines (just look at the aftermarket) but it becomes so complex that it's silly. Put the cams directly over the components they are supposed to actuate and simplify things: rotating mass is much better than reciprocating mass that constantly has to be accelerated and decelerated again and again.

Likewise you can have an overhead cam setup that has the same combustion chamber as most pushrod motors (look at the Ford 4.6 SOHC 2v) and hence has only frictional and reciprocating advantages over a pushrod version of the same engine.

Want to see an interesting pushrod engine? Look into the Penske Ilmor Mercedes 2.65 V8 from 1994. Rules that year allowed pushrod engines to run more boost, yet the rulemakers wrote that to encourage use of different engines such and the Buick turbo V6. They never dreamt that a team would go design their own 'outdated' engine from scratch. Well ol' Roger Penske has never been accused of not being a creative thinker

Anyway, my real point is that the fundamentals that the hp/liter argument are based are totally genuine. I didn't see anyone bitching when GM made a DOHC version of the small block for the ZR-1. In fact I'm sure GM marketing tried to twist things and make it out like they had developed some radical new design.... sorry boys, Peugeot beat you to it back in the 1930's. Just like Cadillac is better than others because it has Stabilitrak.... well f***, my Nissan is better than blah blah because it has Nissan... lol.

Grrr, sorry thats just the type of crap that pisses me off about GM, they are always more than happy to blow some smoke up your ***. -In case anyone is confused, stabilitrak is Cadillac's trademarked system for traction control. No **** no one else offers it, they all have their own silly names for it-

Back to teh ZR-1 engine though... with the domestic and pushrod fans it's always a case of sour grapes with DOHC engines until their beloved company makes one, then they rave over it like it's new and noe one ever did it before.

Blah im too tired to go on but in case you can't tell I'm a realist about this stuff, I like technology but I understand compromises. It's too bad American buyers (and journalists too) are too retarded to notice a good thing from home though: The Vortec 4200 inline-6, everyone seems to think that the TrailBlazer needs a V8 when the 4200 is better than any engine GM has ever made..... pity.

yea...

-Sean

[SeanDean]

But yea a little back on topic here..

First video of the engine running!! This was about 10minutes after the first time it ever started.

http://media.putfile.com/first-run-Video000

Or the direct link if you'd rather save target:http://x700.putfile.com/videos/24501203833.3g2

File opens with QuickTime. Low quality, but the only thing we had handy was a camera phone. That's Tim fron Ter-Tech doing the throttle as I started the engine.

-Sean

http://www.Ter-Tech.com
Modified by freethinker at 6:19 PM 9/8/2005

[GhostDriver]

Yeah!

[Dattebayo]

Yuck, Quicktime sucks. Do you have a wma laying around or something?

[Chingon]

But yea a little back on topic here..

First video of the engine running!! This was about 10minutes after the first time it ever started.

http://media.putfile.com/first-run-Video000

Or the direct link if you'd rather save target:http://x700.putfile.com/videos/24501203833.3g2

File opens with QuickTime. Low quality, but the only thing we had handy was a camera phone. That's Tim fron Ter-Tech doing the throttle as I started the engine.

-Sean

http://www.Ter-Tech.com

Yeah, sorry about the thread jacking... I by no means meant to dismiss your accomplishment. I had actually thought about the vh several times as an alternative swap, but the dimensions/transmission issue scared me away.

I agree w/all of your points, but you have to see the advantages of a modern-age pushrod engine as an alternative swap into a predetermined chassis. All race teams can build a car around an engine, and run crazy compression, itbs, race gas to make up for the lack of displacement. But realistically, how many are going the extra mile in their daily driver or even track whore? How many have access to super light weight alloys and 18k rpm 3 ltr engines?

I went a litte far calling hp/liter as bs; but many take it too far now adays. Sure you may have 80-90 horse to a liter, but at what cost? Higher moment of inertia, mass, complexity, arguable reliability issues w/the valve train, etc. It's all about compromising I suppose. You can start w/an engine that puts out great power in stock form, has a torque curve as flat as minnesota, weights little(as far a v8 goes), and can stick it in the most cramped spaces.

I love dohc, and would not pay 80k if there was a pushrod in an m5, but i just feel I have to defend the ugly cousin once in a while. Look at the ultima and what they have accomplished. I guess i'm starting to look at engines as some chunk of metal that powers the vehicle, and looking at the design of the chassis/brakes/suspension as what really makes it fast...