Hmm, something is not right. it's so universal in windows, try pasting it into word just to make sure you got the screen copied to clipboard.Edub1 wrote:Does nothing. I'll try it on my laptop.
(UPDATED) All 240 Tuning Options Here!!!
Re: All 240 Tuning Options Here!!! (Edub1)
Here are some sample photos from Rom Edit, the program Edub1 and myself use to tune our stuff.
The program distinquishes between high and low octane fuel and ignition. Don't mistake this for fuel quality. High octane means normal running. Low octane means knock sensor induced defalt map.
Here's a shot of the high octane fuel table. The blue portion of the table depicts the cells in which the O2 feedback is used.
That same table in 3D graph form.
Here's the fuel table depicted in AFR translation. You must be very careful depending on this, however. If the K value is off, then these values can be very far off. Mine is pretty darned close as it is. I'm within a couple of points on the AFR's in real measurements.
High octane ignition table. The blue area depicts the cells in which the knock sensor feedback is enabled.
And in 3D graph.
Here's the global page, where you adjust for injector size, latency, rev and speed limits, etc.
This is the Volumetric Quantization (VQ) scale. This translates the MAF voltage into a useable number for calculating injector pulsewidth. Each different MAF has it's own VQ scale and must be used accordingly.
The program distinquishes between high and low octane fuel and ignition. Don't mistake this for fuel quality. High octane means normal running. Low octane means knock sensor induced defalt map.
Here's a shot of the high octane fuel table. The blue portion of the table depicts the cells in which the O2 feedback is used.
That same table in 3D graph form.
Here's the fuel table depicted in AFR translation. You must be very careful depending on this, however. If the K value is off, then these values can be very far off. Mine is pretty darned close as it is. I'm within a couple of points on the AFR's in real measurements.
High octane ignition table. The blue area depicts the cells in which the knock sensor feedback is enabled.
And in 3D graph.
Here's the global page, where you adjust for injector size, latency, rev and speed limits, etc.
This is the Volumetric Quantization (VQ) scale. This translates the MAF voltage into a useable number for calculating injector pulsewidth. Each different MAF has it's own VQ scale and must be used accordingly.
Re: All 240 Tuning Options Here!!! (WDRacing)
So, you are considering tuning your car’s ECU and you want to know where to begin or if you should attempt it in the first place. The first thing you should know is that tuning, while not insurmountable, is fairly involved and one should have a thorough understanding of engine management before beginning. Also understand that there are a few tuning sites with a good deal of info, one such site is http://www.hybridka.com. This is a good place to search for references to existing write-ups or files. A list of links will follow.
Once you have decided that you are up for the challenge, the next question is weather you have a DE or an E motor. Fortunately for the DE crowd there is a good base of knowledge and a very user friendly devise called a Bikirom that comes with everything you need to hook up to a laptop and tune away. There are also a number of tunes floating around for this motor. This devise comes with a daughterboard which is soldered into the ECU. There are a couple of very good write-ups with pictures that cover this procedure.
Those of us with the E motor have to deal with a slightly less user friendly situation. Our understanding of the ECU code is not as far advanced as the DE, but progress is being made. To add insult to injury, our ECU lacks consult capability (explained later)
The Board:
E tuning will require removal of a chip in the ECU and soldering of a levered zif socket in its place. The socket will be used to inset an EPROM chip that will contain the tune you design. Once again, pictured write-ups are available.
Burning the Tune:
The chip mentioned above is created with a chip burner. This is a device that can be purchased for about $50 for a serial port type and $80 for a USB type - these link to a computer on which the tunes will be designed. The device comes with the necessary software for the file transfer.
Emulators:
An emulator is basically a chip with a cord attached that links to a laptop and will allow you to tune in real time rather than swapping and re-burning chips. These are nice but expensive.
Tuning Software:
There are a number of free tuning soft wares available. The only one I know of that can currently be used is one called RomEditor. This can be downloaded from the aforementioned site.
Once you have this downloaded, you will need to enable Japanese fonts to get it to display properly.
To use romeditor, you will need two files – an address file (adr) and a bin file (bin). The address file is basically a file that tells the software where everything goes and how to make sense of your bin file. The bin is the tune itself.
To begin, you will click “setup, are crowded reading address file.” Then you will select your address file. Now, select “file, load bin” and find your bin.
At this point I would take some time and get to know the features of the software. Although it is simple software and we are only using a handful of its features there is still too much to go into in detail.
Some key features:
A/F ratio does not work for us.Graphic editing makes things a lot easier to understandFunction, replace VQ map allows instant MAF swapCompare allows you to load another map and compare in graphic view.
Maps:
Notice there are 4 maps entitled “low & high octane fuel and ignition.” The low octane maps are believed to be used in conjunction with the SCV or secondary butterfly valves. This can make tuning quite difficult as the ECU switches from low to high at 2500RPM under load and 3500RPM during cruising. The files I have included disable this function and only use the high maps.
When looking at there tables, you will notice an X and a Y scale – Y being RPM and X being load. The load scale is referred to as TP – it might help to think of it as throttle position although that might not be completely accurate. In the fuel map you will notice some numbers in the high 100s, these are areas of that map that are used for closed loop operation. The others are used to adjust the amount of fuel for the given RPM and load cell. The same is true of the ignition map except it is spark timing rather than fuel.
You will also notice that TP values can be changed. It was previously believed that these should be scaled in the same way K is. This is not the case and these values should be left alone. It might be the case that a few high load values need to be changed to prevent the ECU from running off the right hand side as air flow is increased by turbo. This is yet to be determined.
K value:
K is a base value used to determine injector pulse for fueling. K is adjusted according to changes in injector size and MAF. A good rule of thumb is to first adjust according to the ratio of old injectors to the new ones, say 270cc/460cc which gives ~.58. It is important to know that the K number is in Hex so a number converter (I use Quick Base) is needed to convert to decimal before doing the math and then back to hex afterward. MAF swaps also involve adjusting your K value. For a Z32 MAF this should be around 2.5. So, .58 (injector) *2.5 = 1.45 – this is your multiplier.
6020 hex = 24608. 24608*1.45 = 35681 = 8B61 in hex.
Note this is ballpark. You will need to play with this number until you get it about where you want and then you will fine tune using the fuel map.
As far as we currently know, TTPmin should be scaled according to injector change. From the example above this would be .58
The other values should be left alone at this time.
Timing:
This is straight forward but can be tricky. It is as simple as changing the numbers based on how you want your timing. The trick is knowing exactly where this needs to take place. For a turbo setup you should pull around .75* per lb of boost. Knowing where your turbo will produce boost and how much it will produce at any given point is the tricky part. I chose to avoid this situation and a lot of dyno time by using a BTM which I set to begin pulling timing after 5lbs and then 1* per lb after that.
Tuning:
A good N/A tune can be had by increasing the high load and RPM values by about 5* and leaning out your fuel to 12.5:1. The KA runs super rich in the high load high RPM range. You will need a wideband or some dyno time but it should pep it up quite a bit. Just be aware that this might shorten the life of your cat converter.
Turbo timing has been covered. The correct A/F ratio while boosting is between 11.5 and 11.9 with 12:1 being an absolute maximum. Many people suggest running very rich mixtures in the belief that this cools the intake charge and prevents detonation. While the cooling part is not true, it does decrease the risk of detonation but it does this at the cost of lost power and a mucked up engine. Under extremely high boost levels such measures or water or alcohol injection may be necessary. But, most of us should be aiming for about 11.9:1 and proper timing. Links:
http://www.hybridka.comhttp://www.moate ... wt...iteup
Hope this helps get things started.
Once you have decided that you are up for the challenge, the next question is weather you have a DE or an E motor. Fortunately for the DE crowd there is a good base of knowledge and a very user friendly devise called a Bikirom that comes with everything you need to hook up to a laptop and tune away. There are also a number of tunes floating around for this motor. This devise comes with a daughterboard which is soldered into the ECU. There are a couple of very good write-ups with pictures that cover this procedure.
Those of us with the E motor have to deal with a slightly less user friendly situation. Our understanding of the ECU code is not as far advanced as the DE, but progress is being made. To add insult to injury, our ECU lacks consult capability (explained later)
The Board:
E tuning will require removal of a chip in the ECU and soldering of a levered zif socket in its place. The socket will be used to inset an EPROM chip that will contain the tune you design. Once again, pictured write-ups are available.
Burning the Tune:
The chip mentioned above is created with a chip burner. This is a device that can be purchased for about $50 for a serial port type and $80 for a USB type - these link to a computer on which the tunes will be designed. The device comes with the necessary software for the file transfer.
Emulators:
An emulator is basically a chip with a cord attached that links to a laptop and will allow you to tune in real time rather than swapping and re-burning chips. These are nice but expensive.
Tuning Software:
There are a number of free tuning soft wares available. The only one I know of that can currently be used is one called RomEditor. This can be downloaded from the aforementioned site.
Once you have this downloaded, you will need to enable Japanese fonts to get it to display properly.
To use romeditor, you will need two files – an address file (adr) and a bin file (bin). The address file is basically a file that tells the software where everything goes and how to make sense of your bin file. The bin is the tune itself.
To begin, you will click “setup, are crowded reading address file.” Then you will select your address file. Now, select “file, load bin” and find your bin.
At this point I would take some time and get to know the features of the software. Although it is simple software and we are only using a handful of its features there is still too much to go into in detail.
Some key features:
A/F ratio does not work for us.Graphic editing makes things a lot easier to understandFunction, replace VQ map allows instant MAF swapCompare allows you to load another map and compare in graphic view.
Maps:
Notice there are 4 maps entitled “low & high octane fuel and ignition.” The low octane maps are believed to be used in conjunction with the SCV or secondary butterfly valves. This can make tuning quite difficult as the ECU switches from low to high at 2500RPM under load and 3500RPM during cruising. The files I have included disable this function and only use the high maps.
When looking at there tables, you will notice an X and a Y scale – Y being RPM and X being load. The load scale is referred to as TP – it might help to think of it as throttle position although that might not be completely accurate. In the fuel map you will notice some numbers in the high 100s, these are areas of that map that are used for closed loop operation. The others are used to adjust the amount of fuel for the given RPM and load cell. The same is true of the ignition map except it is spark timing rather than fuel.
You will also notice that TP values can be changed. It was previously believed that these should be scaled in the same way K is. This is not the case and these values should be left alone. It might be the case that a few high load values need to be changed to prevent the ECU from running off the right hand side as air flow is increased by turbo. This is yet to be determined.
K value:
K is a base value used to determine injector pulse for fueling. K is adjusted according to changes in injector size and MAF. A good rule of thumb is to first adjust according to the ratio of old injectors to the new ones, say 270cc/460cc which gives ~.58. It is important to know that the K number is in Hex so a number converter (I use Quick Base) is needed to convert to decimal before doing the math and then back to hex afterward. MAF swaps also involve adjusting your K value. For a Z32 MAF this should be around 2.5. So, .58 (injector) *2.5 = 1.45 – this is your multiplier.
6020 hex = 24608. 24608*1.45 = 35681 = 8B61 in hex.
Note this is ballpark. You will need to play with this number until you get it about where you want and then you will fine tune using the fuel map.
As far as we currently know, TTPmin should be scaled according to injector change. From the example above this would be .58
The other values should be left alone at this time.
Timing:
This is straight forward but can be tricky. It is as simple as changing the numbers based on how you want your timing. The trick is knowing exactly where this needs to take place. For a turbo setup you should pull around .75* per lb of boost. Knowing where your turbo will produce boost and how much it will produce at any given point is the tricky part. I chose to avoid this situation and a lot of dyno time by using a BTM which I set to begin pulling timing after 5lbs and then 1* per lb after that.
Tuning:
A good N/A tune can be had by increasing the high load and RPM values by about 5* and leaning out your fuel to 12.5:1. The KA runs super rich in the high load high RPM range. You will need a wideband or some dyno time but it should pep it up quite a bit. Just be aware that this might shorten the life of your cat converter.
Turbo timing has been covered. The correct A/F ratio while boosting is between 11.5 and 11.9 with 12:1 being an absolute maximum. Many people suggest running very rich mixtures in the belief that this cools the intake charge and prevents detonation. While the cooling part is not true, it does decrease the risk of detonation but it does this at the cost of lost power and a mucked up engine. Under extremely high boost levels such measures or water or alcohol injection may be necessary. But, most of us should be aiming for about 11.9:1 and proper timing. Links:
http://www.hybridka.comhttp://www.moate ... wt...iteup
Hope this helps get things started.
Re: All 240 Tuning Options Here!!! (Edub1)
Stock bin file. Manual Transmission.
Maybe not.
Modified by Edub1 at 10:37 AM 12/17/2006
Maybe not.
Modified by Edub1 at 10:37 AM 12/17/2006
Re: (Edub1)
Thanks for that information, 'Dub. I wasn't aware of that difference.
I'll read your article later, I'm in a bit of a rush, so I'm just skimming.
I'll read your article later, I'm in a bit of a rush, so I'm just skimming.
Good writeup, Edub, but I have a couple inquiries.
According to Gabe @ HybridKA (deviousKA) the TP scale must be adjusted with the K value adjustments. I know that the other Nissan tuning site says this isn't so, but I go with what Gabe says on this. Currently, he's probably done more in-depth research and code cracking on the SOHC setup than anyone in this country.
Additionally, I recently rescaled for larger injectors, using the K and TP rescaling calculations (yes it's a DOHC, but same ECCS functionality in terms of TP calculation) and my stuff works great. I'm in the proper load cells, and, contrary to what we've read over on ecu2.cc, the car runs great. I'd like to experiment more with that, doing some map tracing with different TP scales, to verify this for sure, if you'd like to get together with me about it. Maybe you could also do some logging to compare?
The TP is a load scale, but it's not related to throttle position at all. I think it would be important to explain that it's truly a theoretical pulsewidth (hence the abbreviation TP) to achieve lambda (14.7:1) at any given rpm and weightflow of air.
Then, of course, you should go on to explain that the ECU references the correction table for a given TP and RPM to find the fuel correction factor to obtain a desired modified AFR (which could be rich or lean of lambda, depending on the number in that particular cell).
As I understand it, the engine uses throttle position input only for calculating throttle tip-in and decel leaning.
I saw a flow chart over on eccs.hybridka.com that was from the US patent office, depicting the ECCS function. It's a pretty cool chart.
By the way, good writeup, and thanks for taking the time to cover it. I know there are some differences between the DOHC and SOHC functions. I think we could put our heads together and come up with a pretty comprehensive writeup for both, arranged for proper article posting on this forum.
According to Gabe @ HybridKA (deviousKA) the TP scale must be adjusted with the K value adjustments. I know that the other Nissan tuning site says this isn't so, but I go with what Gabe says on this. Currently, he's probably done more in-depth research and code cracking on the SOHC setup than anyone in this country.
Additionally, I recently rescaled for larger injectors, using the K and TP rescaling calculations (yes it's a DOHC, but same ECCS functionality in terms of TP calculation) and my stuff works great. I'm in the proper load cells, and, contrary to what we've read over on ecu2.cc, the car runs great. I'd like to experiment more with that, doing some map tracing with different TP scales, to verify this for sure, if you'd like to get together with me about it. Maybe you could also do some logging to compare?
The TP is a load scale, but it's not related to throttle position at all. I think it would be important to explain that it's truly a theoretical pulsewidth (hence the abbreviation TP) to achieve lambda (14.7:1) at any given rpm and weightflow of air.
Then, of course, you should go on to explain that the ECU references the correction table for a given TP and RPM to find the fuel correction factor to obtain a desired modified AFR (which could be rich or lean of lambda, depending on the number in that particular cell).
As I understand it, the engine uses throttle position input only for calculating throttle tip-in and decel leaning.
I saw a flow chart over on eccs.hybridka.com that was from the US patent office, depicting the ECCS function. It's a pretty cool chart.
By the way, good writeup, and thanks for taking the time to cover it. I know there are some differences between the DOHC and SOHC functions. I think we could put our heads together and come up with a pretty comprehensive writeup for both, arranged for proper article posting on this forum.
Re: (KATwo40)
I'm not exactely sure what the TP is for the E. I do know that I have tried it both ways. Scaling TP values caused the car to run horribly while leaving them stock seems to work best. I do not have consult working but I did run dozens and dozens of tests and wasn't able to accomplish anything by altering them. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe they don't do anything along the lines of what we think and the ECU looks to those columns regardless of what the TP is. This would also explain why observing the map with consult would make it appear on the money. I know Gabe is a wiz with this stuff but the fact that the SAFCII works without changing TP is strong evidence. I think changing the MAF values makes the new MAF appear stock to the ECU also. It would be interesting to set the last few columns to about 200 and see if you ever hit them.
I could be wrong but I just finished a great tune with stock values and increasing TP did nothing. It does keep going to 10.8:1 but I think I can pull that from the maps. That and the damn tires keep breaking loose around 4000rpms in second.
I could be wrong but I just finished a great tune with stock values and increasing TP did nothing. It does keep going to 10.8:1 but I think I can pull that from the maps. That and the damn tires keep breaking loose around 4000rpms in second.
Re: (KATwo40)
It sounds like you are saying that the TP represents a stoich cell value, is this correct? So, if I set that whoe column to the corresponding TP I will be stoich and if I put in a higher number I should be that much richer?
It would be nice if that is the case. i did notice a trend in this direction as I found myself creating a flat spot in the upper RPM range. Almost like the ECU was multiplying the MAF reading times the cell value and going ever richer as rpm and therefore MAF reading increased.
It would be nice if that is the case. i did notice a trend in this direction as I found myself creating a flat spot in the upper RPM range. Almost like the ECU was multiplying the MAF reading times the cell value and going ever richer as rpm and therefore MAF reading increased.
Re: (WDRacing)
Great thread, and lots of info so far! Is there any way to get links to the separate threads put in here, or some way of navigating to the different write-ups in progress?
I am anxiously awaiting the finished articles. I am just starting to source parts for my KA-T build, so hopefully there will be more progress in a few months. This thread will definately give me a good starting point. It seems that a proper tune is the most important, yet least understood part of a well built, reliable turbo set-up. It is much easier to understand the mechanics and visible components than to fully understand all those maps and hex values.
I am very interested in the Mega Squirt system because of the potential, but that might be over my head this time around since I wouldn't really know where to start making a completely new harness. Maybe someone will post up a good how-to that will shed some light on it. Is bikirom tuning similar to the "DSM Link" that is used on Eclipses?
I am anxiously awaiting the finished articles. I am just starting to source parts for my KA-T build, so hopefully there will be more progress in a few months. This thread will definately give me a good starting point. It seems that a proper tune is the most important, yet least understood part of a well built, reliable turbo set-up. It is much easier to understand the mechanics and visible components than to fully understand all those maps and hex values.
I am very interested in the Mega Squirt system because of the potential, but that might be over my head this time around since I wouldn't really know where to start making a completely new harness. Maybe someone will post up a good how-to that will shed some light on it. Is bikirom tuning similar to the "DSM Link" that is used on Eclipses?
Re: (Zion8561)
I've never messed with DSMs. Bikirom is for the DE motor. It comes with software and is fairly user friendly from what I understand.
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Re: (Zion8561)
Yeah, I'll just copy the related stuff and make new threads for them...
Re: (WDRacing)
I need help with these questions:
1. Which 240sx are OBD0, OBD1, and OBD2? and what are the tuning options for these? All I heard is separating between E and DE motor. Are these both OBD1?
2. I did some reading in ECCS but I need to know which ECU board where we need to remove the stock ROM and put a ZIF socket instead, and which ECU do we use daugther board in?
3. Does Bikirom only work with certain daughter board? where can I get these daugtherboards?
1. Which 240sx are OBD0, OBD1, and OBD2? and what are the tuning options for these? All I heard is separating between E and DE motor. Are these both OBD1?
2. I did some reading in ECCS but I need to know which ECU board where we need to remove the stock ROM and put a ZIF socket instead, and which ECU do we use daugther board in?
3. Does Bikirom only work with certain daughter board? where can I get these daugtherboards?
Re: (Edub1)
Great link Edub. I have also been searching the Hybrid KA link you posted, and it has some really good info there too. Now I am really considering just going with BikiRom since it appears you can change anything you want (as long as you know what the hex address is).
Re: (elpiar)
The DE is used in the 91 and up 240sx. If your pulgs go through the valve cover it's a DE.
The DE ECU can use Bikirom or a daughter board. The E has an EPROM. This chip is the one with the sticker with numbers on it. There are a couple of writeups with pictures floating around on the solder work.
The DE ECU can use Bikirom or a daughter board. The E has an EPROM. This chip is the one with the sticker with numbers on it. There are a couple of writeups with pictures floating around on the solder work.