update on dealer terrible detail job

[abice]

Well I went to get my hood fixed today from the dealership and while there they told me that they saw more wax swirls and buffer swirls along the rest of the car and that they would like to take a whole day to completely polish my whole car. So I'm happy in that aspect and the fact that the kid detailing the car actually saw the same buffer marks that I saw and he agreed they need to come out and told me that he could fix it. I personally sat there and watched him put polish on the car today and how he did it the product he used was a 3M Swirl eliminator. He used the buffer machine to apply the polish and then a microfiber towel to wipe the hood down after applying the polish. He had to keep moving the car from the garage to the sunlight to see the swirls and marks so he could see where to buff them out. I agreed that as far as the wax swirls the polish did a good job, however, from this new buffing jobs I have seen that there has been new hairline scratches added to the hood and I pointed them out to the kid after he did it and he said yeah I can get those out next week when I do the whole car I just need some time to concentrate on it. So this is where I am I know that for a fact the buffer machine they are using is putting hairline scratches in the paint and that my car needs to be completely done again to get the polish from the first detailing job out. I feel like i can trust the kid who was doing it cuz I was sitting there talking with him during the whole time, and the manager said that there getting a new product from a rep next week specially for dark cars, however I just feel that the kid is a kid and not a professional someone who specialized in painting cars and knows exactly how to get thin scratches out and knows what not to do with a buffer machine in order not to completely screw up a car. So i guess now I'm planning on leaving the car with them for the day next week is this a good idea? please i really would like more advice on this cuz i'm all over the map with it and I have no clue what to do...thanks guys

[zozoka1212]

As I mentioned in the original post. I would take it to a pro shop to get it done. Couple of things itchy for me.

He had to keep moving the car from the garage to the sunlight to see the swirls and marks so he could see where to buff them out..thanks guys

If you have a halogen light it shows the swirls more than any sunlight would.

It sounds like he is far from the pro.Not because of his age. Be honest with you I have no problem to give it to a young guy to do the job. As long as he knows what he is doing.

Actually if I have a chance to pick a 35 years experience mechanic or a 5-10 years I prefer the 5-10. I like the one who likes challanges. The one who takes on the job what others would pass. Who is competitive and takes his/her job serious. Same apply to any type of service not just mechanic/detailer.

[pfarmer]

As I mentioned in the original post. I would take it to a pro shop to get it done. Couple of things itchy for me.

If you have a halogen light it shows the swirls more than any sunlight would.

It sounds like he is far from the pro.Not because of his age. Be honest with you I have no problem to give it to a young guy to do the job. As long as he knows what he is doing.

Actually if I have a chance to pick a 35 years experience mechanic or a 5-10 years I prefer the 5-10. I like the one who likes challanges. The one who takes on the job what others would pass. Who is competitive and takes his/her job serious. Same apply to any type of service not just mechanic/detailer.

I would take the guy with 35 years, he has already done the 5-10.

Perry

[zozoka1212]

I knew you or telco will say something about it. Here is my view. The guy with 35 is a little outdated and not as motivated as the 5-10. IU know they are going for training and all if they do. Some dealership don't lioke to spend moneyt on things like that. So somebody who learned all the new technology for years instead of going for a day/days training. I'll ltake somebody with enough experience and school behind the new technology instead of day training.

Another reason I see is the motivation as I mentioned. Look at Steve or Poyzi. They are here to help and learn. How many you see here with 35 years of experience.

Just my .02

[pfarmer]

I knew you or telco will say something about it. Here is my view. The guy with 35 is a little outdated and not as motivated as the 5-10. IU know they are going for training and all if they do. Some dealership don't lioke to spend moneyt on things like that. So somebody who learned all the new technology for years instead of going for a day/days training. I'll ltake somebody with enough experience and school behind the new technology instead of day training.

Another reason I see is the motivation as I mentioned. Look at Steve or Poyzi. They are here to help and learn. How many you see here with 35 years of experience.

Just my .02

I see a difference in work ethic between the average guy with 35 years experience and the average guy with just 5-10.

Simply because a guy has 35 years doesn't mean he isn't dedicated to learn new things, the fact that he has the 35 years means he has done this many times. Motivated, many youngsters are motivated by money and in fact they may well need to be since they have young kids of their own to support, housing issues, and so on. Many older people tend to be motivated by using their knowledge and their experiences to do things correctly, the fact they have stayed in the industry this long indicates that more then money has kept them there.

As far as Steve (who I have learned much from) and Poyzi (who I have more limited experience with) both seem to fit the mold of ones who will end up being one of the '35 year vets'. I am confident that in the future tenor they will in fact bring their motivation to the table along with their successes and their failures. I would trust them even more at that time then I do now.

Now as far as girls go, yes pick the young ones, their stories are shorter.

This may work in this one area but 'I trust my car to the man who wore the star.

The fact is you really need a blend in a good shop. Someone who introduces new ideas and someone to slap the xxxx out of those who want to experiment on the prized vehicle of a valued customer when a little bit of learned wisdom would suffice.

Perry

[abice]

lol thanks guys but at this point I would take either a 5-10 year guy or a 35 year guy chances are they know what there doing to detail a car im sure they know exactly the right technique to use the buffer, I took it to the dealership and I'm sure the kid does his job as a detailer washing cars but however, he works at an infiniti dealership and not a professional paint shop and they didn't have uv lights to use or any kind of professional equipment or polish they simply had a buffer and polish name brand polish, this is my only concern with this whole thing, thats its just a kid that went to the dealer for a summer job i'm sure and they said here go detail some cars, so do u guys think it would be in my best interest for my car to take it to a specialist someone who is a professional in either the detailing business or the car painting business?

[telcoman]

Now as far as girls go, yes pick the young ones, their stories are shorter. Perry

My father always used to say, the older they are the more experience they have

Telcoman

[pfarmer]

My father always used to say, the older they are the more experience they have

Telcoman

A good point, however I like being a teacher. Also has some benefits in that they don't know any better, they think it is what it is.

Perry

[C-Kwik]

You can't judge a person on years of experience alone. Seeing them work is likelt the best gauge.

10 years of experience is a whole lot more than a year of experience repeated 35 times.

Not to say that a person with "35 years" of experience is just that, but I would count on it to be the primary metric in determing who gets my money...

[zozoka1212]

You got a good point there.

Also another important thing is the problem solving skill.

[loops80]

You might be making a bad situation worse. I would ask the dealer why they hit your car with a buffer in the first place. Swirl marks are created by a buffer and some kind of abrasive (cutting agent). New cars do not need this treatment, the only thing they need is a quality hand applied wax (non abrasive wax). Your owners manual states this fact. Paint on older cars that has oxidized from exposure to the environment can be restored by polishing with a buffer. The polishing process removes the outer (damaged) layer, thus improving the appearance of the car. Every time they use a buffer on your new car they are removing clear coat paint (3M swirl remover is a cutter). This will definitely affect the long term durability of your finish. If I were you I would get the car back and contact infiniti.

[abice]

hey loops thanks for the straight up answer cuz i really wasn't getting anywhere listening to everyone talk about experience it was actually driving me nuts. I have the car back I never let them take it and your saying I should just go right to the manufacturer instead of through a dealership and ask them what they can do for me, are u basically saying that they have most likely started to strip the clearcoat on my car and that Infiniti is going to have to repaint the car?

[abice]

Also where in the manual does it say that I'm looking for it now, to find it just to prove it to the dealership and manufacturer, cuz i need to base what i say to them with proven facts, so I dont sound stupid.

[zozoka1212]

hey loops thanks for the straight up answer cuz i really wasn't getting anywhere listening to everyone talk about experience it was actually driving me nuts.

As I mentioned in the original post. I would take it to a pro shop to get it done.

Here is my first answer to you from your first post.Also not sure if I would give it to them to fix it. If they couldn't do it right at the first time I don't think they will get it any better the secon time.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I would have to think it would have to be really bad before infiniti paints the entire car!

Just my .02

DJ

[loops80]

Under the "Waxing" heading on Page 7-2 of my 2008 G37 Owners manual it states:

Do not use a wax containing any abrasives, cutting compounds or cleaners that may damage the vehicle finish.

Machine compound or aggressive polishing on a base coat/clear coat finish may dull the finish or leave swirl marks.

Yes, if the dealer left swirl marks on your brand new $45k car I would say that Infiniti should make it right, I would have a factory tech look at the car. Even with the best of intentions, I'm not sure how your dealer can fix the problem. Swirl marks are scratches in the paint, the only way to remove scratches is to polish them out using abrasives, this proccess removes paint from the car. Having a clean, unmolested factory finish should be an absolute given when buying any new car, especially from a luxury brand like Infiniti. Good Luck

[zozoka1212]

The thing is We don't know if it was actually the dealer or him doing it.As pointed out by Smockey.At his original post he said he used lots of elbow grease and the other post he said he pressed as hard as he could without cracking the hood.

That would leave a nice swirl marked surface.

At this point as I said it before 2 times. I'd just take it to a pro shop get it fixed and move on.

[loops80]

I agree, I was posting under the assumption that the dealer damaged the car. However, swirl marks left by hand and those from a buffer are two different animals, a pro (i.e. factory tech) could easily differentiate between the two. There is a product on the market called Meguires #9 swirl remover. I have used it and it is excellent. Pick up a bottle and apply it by HAND to the effected areas (follow the instructions on the bottle). It will safely remove light swirl marks and scratches. If this stuff doesn't remove the marks with light buffing back off. At that point if you're sure the dealer damaged it then readdress it with them...good chance the #9 will fix it.

[abice]

or if this is just a forum and I'm talking and trying to prove a point and its hard for me to explain what I meant cuz obviously I'm typing a paragraph instead of talking to someone, actually buddy I'm just looking for a little help and all those are f*****s are talking about whether or not someone has 5 years or 35 years of experience and its annoying as hell, all I did to the car was wash it and put a coat of wax on it by hand if i put a coat of wax on it by hand there's no reason why all the wax wouldn't come out and like I said there is buffer scratches now in the car which I witnessed first hand by the detailer at the dealer so therefore there is new scratches in the hood regardless, so i was just looking for a little help thats all you don't have to be an a** about it

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

or if this is just a forum and I'm talking and trying to prove a point and its hard for me to explain what I meant cuz obviously I'm typing a paragraph instead of talking to someone, actually buddy I'm just looking for a little help and all those are f*****s are talking about whether or not someone has 5 years or 35 years of experience and its annoying as hell, all I did to the car was wash it and put a coat of wax on it by hand if i put a coat of wax on it by hand there's no reason why all the wax wouldn't come out and like I said there is buffer scratches now in the car which I witnessed first hand by the detailer at the dealer so therefore there is new scratches in the hood regardless, so i was just looking for a little help thats all you don't have to be an a** about it

First off I don't applicate the tone you are speaking in. Second at NICO we are all grown up and don't have to talk like we are in high school driving Civic's! I am also shocked to understand how someone that can afford a New G yet talks like trailer trash!

The guys here were only offering some opinions and most of us here have quite a bit of experience with cars. We are all Gear Heads, Petro Heads, Motor Heads and any other type of name you can relate to loving cars! If you would take your fingers out of your ears and do a little bit of listening you will see you still have a lot to learn.... based on your knowledge about wax alone I am inferring this about you.

We are all hear learning and helping and if you stick around you will see what I am talking about

Don't take this the wrong way but please try to have some sort of manners and respect when you are in the G forums!

DJ
Modified by Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT at 2:36 AM 6/28/2009

[pfarmer]

You might be making a bad situation worse. I would ask the dealer why they hit your car with a buffer in the first place. Swirl marks are created by a buffer and some kind of abrasive (cutting agent). New cars do not need this treatment, the only thing they need is a quality hand applied wax (non abrasive wax). Your owners manual states this fact. Paint on older cars that has oxidized from exposure to the environment can be restored by polishing with a buffer. The polishing process removes the outer (damaged) layer, thus improving the appearance of the car. Every time they use a buffer on your new car they are removing clear coat paint (3M swirl remover is a cutter). This will definitely affect the long term durability of your finish. If I were you I would get the car back and contact infiniti.

I was wondering about the need to use a buffer on a new car. From what I see they basically come in with a series of plastic (at least from a distance looks like plastic) panels that are clinging to the body. To me the most that needs to be done is remove them along with any residue. Give it a good clean job and maybe a quick detail.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I agree, I was posting under the assumption that the dealer damaged the car. However, swirl marks left by hand and those from a buffer are two different animals, a pro (i.e. factory tech) could easily differentiate between the two. There is a product on the market called Meguires #9 swirl remover. I have used it and it is excellent. Pick up a bottle and apply it by HAND to the effected areas (follow the instructions on the bottle). It will safely remove light swirl marks and scratches. If this stuff doesn't remove the marks with light buffing back off. At that point if you're sure the dealer damaged it then readdress it with them...good chance the #9 will fix it.

At this point I would make no attempt at fixing this myself. I would take it to a professional shop but not to have it fixed. I would take it to build a case against the dealer and to exonerate the buyer. While the buyer should not have made any mention of how hard he tried to remove the marks, the shop should be able to tell the difference between hand rubbing and machine. Then as long as things continue to point towards the dealer, then I would persue it directly with Infiniti bypassing this dealer.

Perry

[pfarmer]

Also where in the manual does it say that I'm looking for it now, to find it just to prove it to the dealership and manufacturer, cuz i need to base what i say to them with proven facts, so I dont sound stupid.

Section 7-2

Perry

[pfarmer]

or if this is just a forum and I'm talking and trying to prove a point and its hard for me to explain what I meant cuz obviously I'm typing a paragraph instead of talking to someone, actually buddy I'm just looking for a little help and all those are f*****s are talking about whether or not someone has 5 years or 35 years of experience and its annoying as hell, all I did to the car was wash it and put a coat of wax on it by hand if i put a coat of wax on it by hand there's no reason why all the wax wouldn't come out and like I said there is buffer scratches now in the car which I witnessed first hand by the detailer at the dealer so therefore there is new scratches in the hood regardless, so i was just looking for a little help thats all you don't have to be an a** about it

First off you just need to step back a little bit and realize why you are so ticked off at us, right now you are ticked off at the world because of a problem with your car that should not be there AND I WOULD BE AND I AM CURRENTLY IN THE SAME BOAT. Just keep in mind that we are not what caused your problem.

First off a little advice, don't post too much about what you may or may not have done since this could be used against you by a dealer if at a later date this ends up being some sort of legal action between you and them (ie lemon laws).

Now as far as the car goes. Once back in your possession do not wash or wax it, take it to another shop with a good reputation in your area and have them inspect the finish and give an opinion of what they see, the cause of any scratches, swirls, etc.. If they agree that this was caused by machine (which you have always stated you did not use) then this should help your case since only they used a machine on it. You now have two baselines. The first is the initial inspection by Infiniti which of course they will never state they sent a car with a factory defect in finish. Then you have another baseline at the professional detail shop.

Have a separate opinion about what can be done to fix it but keep this separate from the findings of damage, keep this part in your pocket.

Borrow a high quality camera and take as many pictures as possible. Then put on a circular polarizer so you can adjust pictures to enhance the ability of showing the marks that the detail shop identified. For now keep this in your pocket as well.

Document everything as your memory of events tomorrow will never be exactly the same as your perception today.

At this point I would contact the regional rep of Infiniti and point out what an independant shop found on your new prized vehicle. Let them make their move at this point and decide for yourself if you want to accept it. The only fix I would accept would depend on the damage found and that fix would not be any repairs done in an Infiniti shop or one with an alliance. Do not present the suggested fix from the detail shop until Infiniti makes their offer first and only if the suggested fix from the detail shop exceeds the fix offered by Infiniti.

You purchased a new car, don't accept anything less. I just hope you have better luck then I have had so far.

Perry

[zozoka1212]

Perry,

He lost the case when he signed the paper at delivery. 2 weeks past delivery and 2 wash include a detail by himself and complaining about the finish on the car. Lawyer would love to have a simple case like that.

To the op.

Why not just take it to the pro shop as I suggested and be over with it? Lesson learned. When you take delivery INSPECT your car. That is your last line of defense. Another thing hit my eyes when I read your post. You did clean your car and did no notice the swirl marks. I am sorry but whenever I clean my car no matter how "fast" I am doing it. I see all the new little chips or scratches. Maybe it is just me.

Good Luck with your case.

[abice]

So it took me to get a little upset before I could get some real answers thank you I just didn't understand why I couldn't get answers like this first, and I know that the same kid who detailed my car the other day was the one who detailed my car in the first place, because he said so to his boss right in front of me, and both of them detailer and manager, admit there was swirl marks and there are scratches in it, now as far as telling them what I'm done to the car, I've told them very little other than the fact that I washed it twice and the second time when I put a coat of wax on it by hand that I really noticed all the marks, and this is why I came in, now I have also been in with a body shop nearby, in which my family is friends, when I go to him, I was simply going to ask him to evaluate the situation, and tell me if the dealership is handling this the right way. and as far as just going to a pro shop and putting it behind me, I really don't feel like paying for an expensive detail job when its not my fault in the first place, so why correct it with extra money out of my pocket. And there should not be any legal case involved, the dealership made a mistake they admitted to it and they need to correct it the right way, that's the way I look at it, And maybe I don't have experience as you guys "do" which, is exactly why I am hear asking questions and trying to get realistic answer that will help my case on what I should do to solve this problem, I was never trying to prove that I had experience, cuz I don't I'm 20 and I'm a kid, so all I'm looking for is a little help, from the only professionals I can find right now, And if it took me to fire off a little heated forum message thats what I'm gonna do to get answers that I'm looking for, I'm sure you guys can understand that, it sounds like some of you can, And I was never mad at anyone if that's clear simply irritated and in search of answer I wasn't getting. But like a gentleman I will apologize to you guys including you tampa and zozo I'm sorry for the angry forum message And thank you farmer and loops for the answers and everyone else who chimed in thank you

[zozoka1212]

All cool.

[pfarmer]

Perry,

He lost the case when he signed the paper at delivery. 2 weeks past delivery and 2 wash include a detail by himself and complaining about the finish on the car. Lawyer would love to have a simple case like that.

To the op.

Why not just take it to the pro shop as I suggested and be over with it? Lesson learned. When you take delivery INSPECT your car. That is your last line of defense. Another thing hit my eyes when I read your post. You did clean your car and did no notice the swirl marks. I am sorry but whenever I clean my car no matter how "fast" I am doing it. I see all the new little chips or scratches. Maybe it is just me.

Good Luck with your case.

I don't believe it is as easy as that. The fact he noticed nothing first does complicate things. Note that the dealer seems to sort of blow it as well, that is they do not from what we see so far deny that the swirl marks were left by them, they in fact tried to remove them free of charge and it would be interesting where they charged the time to which should be stated on the paper he got when he took it in for the fix.

This is why the second pro shop becomes important. I doubt he can get it painted unless he can show that there really is damaged that can not be detailed out. But he may be able to have that paid for by Infiniti and this will also set up protection against future issues with the finish.

Do not have it fixed until Infiniti gives you an answer. Once that takes place then have it fixed based on that answer.

Perry

[abice]

When I took it in last week for the dealers attempt to correct the swirl marks they filed no paper work I didn't sign anything I simply got in my car with the detailer and we drove to the back of the warehouse where he washed my car and then attempted to you 3M swirl eliminator, an abrasive polish which loops said, and it did take the wax swirls out however as far as scratches go it just added new ones and did not fix them, now he told his manager when he looked at the car in the sunlight he saw more swirl marks throughout the car and he said that he would like to have a day to do the whole car, the manager agreed and ask me if I could bring it in this thursday for the whole day so they could do the whole car. I'm pretty sure I'm going to bring my car to an auto body shop that is local where I live and see if what the dealership is doing is the right solution and then I will also give Infiniti a call and explain the situation to them and that it states in the manual that abrasive polishes should not be used because it can cause buffer marks and swirl marks which is exactly what happened because of the dealerships actions.

[pfarmer]

When I took it in last week for the dealers attempt to correct the swirl marks they filed no paper work I didn't sign anything

So no work was authorized by you or accepted by you? Interesting.

Perry