update on dealer terrible detail job

[abice]

No I guess not, I mean I showed up with the car he called the detailer over and himself and I drove the car to the back where he began to wash it and buff it adding the new scratches then he realized that the whole car needed to be done called the service manager back to look at it and he agreed we set up another day for this week to bring it back and then I left. I mean is that a bad thing or good thing. Today I was given advice that I need to go to the representative From Infiniti for my region who is above this dealership and explain my problem and that I don't want this kid to detail my car because I witnessed him scratch the paint more and also I was asked why they buffed the car in the first place because it was a new car and new paint job and didn't need to be buffed. I was told that if it was buff then something must have happened to the car when it was shipped on the carrier whether it was stone chips or something else and it was stripped and repainted and that would have been the only reason it should have been buffed in the first place.

[pfarmer]

No I guess not, I mean I showed up with the car he called the detailer over and himself and I drove the car to the back where he began to wash it and buff it adding the new scratches then he realized that the whole car needed to be done called the service manager back to look at it and he agreed we set up another day for this week to bring it back and then I left. I mean is that a bad thing or good thing. Today I was given advice that I need to go to the representative From Infiniti for my region who is above this dealership and explain my problem and that I don't want this kid to detail my car because I witnessed him scratch the paint more and also I was asked why they buffed the car in the first place because it was a new car and new paint job and didn't need to be buffed. I was told that if it was buff then something must have happened to the car when it was shipped on the carrier whether it was stone chips or something else and it was stripped and repainted and that would have been the only reason it should have been buffed in the first place.

If it was repainted and if poorly done then it should be easy to tell. I would take it to the rep in the area and bypass the dealer. It is also possible that it was parked in a bad area (power plant cooling tower blowdown is one example), but then that should not have been a big issue for a new car like an Infiniti unless they are using an open carrier.

One of the big selling points of an 09, in fact one of the main reasons I would want one over my 08 is the paint. Infiniti makes a big deal out of how much better it is, let them back that up.

Perry

[abice]

strongly agreed thank you very much and bypassing the dealership is something I'm going to do today I'm going to call Infiniti and see who or where I should go, the weird part about this is that the only dealership In Syracuse is this dealership and the next closest dealership is in rochester which is about 80 miles away soo we will see where this leads me. Thanks farmer

[pfarmer]

strongly agreed thank you very much and bypassing the dealership is something I'm going to do today I'm going to call Infiniti and see who or where I should go, the weird part about this is that the only dealership In Syracuse is this dealership and the next closest dealership is in rochester which is about 80 miles away soo we will see where this leads me. Thanks farmer

There is a term for things like environmental damage during shipping. For example sending the car in an open carrier through a sand storm. Parking near a cooling tower at a power plant is another. Parking near a power plant doing steam blows. All sorts of possibilities come up for environmental damage in open carriers. It is even possible in closed containers but less likely. In the case of your car you should be able to get a trail of this possibility. If the car was initiatially delivered to another dealer (like mine was) then the initial protection it had was most likely removed before being resent to the local dealer. I think in my case the car had already gone through one dealer prep since it had a sticker on it for Colorado Emmisions.

Perry

[abice]

hmm well I just talked to Infiniti and they are going to have a specialist from Infiniti call me tomorrow to talk about my situation, it would be nice to know the path of where my car came from so that way I will know if there was possibly environmental damage which would explain why it was buffed in the first place. they asked me what my specific solution would be to fix my car and I really wasn't sure so I just said a new paint job and if that is completely unrealistic then I would settle with just repainting the hood and then having an experienced professional getting the swirls out instead of a kid who is just working at the dealership for a job and not as his profession so we will see what happens tomorrow

[pfarmer]

hmm well I just talked to Infiniti and they are going to have a specialist from Infiniti call me tomorrow to talk about my situation, it would be nice to know the path of where my car came from so that way I will know if there was possibly environmental damage which would explain why it was buffed in the first place. they asked me what my specific solution would be to fix my car and I really wasn't sure so I just said a new paint job and if that is completely unrealistic then I would settle with just repainting the hood and then having an experienced professional getting the swirls out instead of a kid who is just working at the dealership for a job and not as his profession so we will see what happens tomorrow

Like I stated before don't offer them the solution as that will limit you to accepting what you offered. You want them to offer the solution. If the issue is a defective product then what you want is it delivered back to you in the same condition (or better) as a 'new car'. If that means they have to give you another than so be it. If that means they will paint yours to factory specs (ie self healing clear coat, etc.) then so be it. My belief is that an OEM paint job is most likely going to be better than a replacement paint job to OEM specs. Note I stated OEM, maybe you can actually come out of this with something truly special - a black car with blue metal flake and self healing clear coat.

Who knows at this point.

Perry

[abice]

I showed it to a family friend today and he used to own a body shop and has been with cars his whole life I'm assuming he is like you guys gurus at knowledge with cars, he looked at my car and was shocked that a 45000 dollar car could be let of the dealership with that kind of damage he said that I would probably need a 7000-10000 dollar paint job to fix it and that I should except nothing less than a refund of my money and a new car it has been 30 days today and I'm well under the lemon law and I haven't done anything to void the lemon law as everything I have done to the car has been by my manual. a wash and Hand coat of wax is stated in the owners manual as well as using abrasive cutting polish will scratch the clearcoat is in the manual and as I watched him use a blue polish which means it is an abrasive cutter and it did exactly that scratched the hood more and now he wants to do the whole car with it no no no not happening. So my friend is going to call my dealership today and talk to the manager and add his two cents to the situation because he said it is clear i'm getting bullied by the manager's at my dealership as a 20 year kid they are easily bullying me. In addition to that I will be calling a specialist today to tell them of the situation and also last night we looked at my car under good lights and my friend said its scratched to s*** and this is not a job that kid who is just working to have a job can fix and to get it out would need a new paint job and to be handle by strictly a professional however since its been 30 days I need a refund because the car is brand new.

[pfarmer]

I showed it to a family friend today and he used to own a body shop and has been with cars his whole life I'm assuming he is like you guys gurus at knowledge with cars, he looked at my car and was shocked that a 45000 dollar car could be let of the dealership with that kind of damage he said that I would probably need a 7000-10000 dollar paint job to fix it and that I should except nothing less than a refund of my money and a new car it has been 30 days today and I'm well under the lemon law and I haven't done anything to void the lemon law as everything I have done to the car has been by my manual.

You may want to look at the lemon laws since I don't believe you would be covered just yet.

For example in Washington State basically for non-safety problems I think there is a requirement that you have 3 prior tries at fixing the issue, one of which has to be DOCUMENTED as done during the warranty period.

There are a bunch of other requirements for both parties so you need to get past what your friends, neighbors, family members, and those who are posting here including myself and others when it comes to certain things like lemon laws, etc. in your neck of the woods.

Documentation of everything I think would be important regardless of where you are located and I don't think could ever hurt you in a lemon law case as long as what is being stated is that it is the fault or the result of the manufacturer and not some action you did.

Perry

[abice]

I know for a fact that other than the two washes and hand coat of wax that For the time being til this problem gets resolved I won't be washing or touching the exterior of my car. And I was reading up on the new york state lemon law last night and it says that if the dealership can't fix the problem and won't fix the problem or isn't able to fix a problem on the car during the two year 12000 mile period than there is to be a full refund of the value of the car plus taxes and fees and I know I havent violated the lemon law by having this dealership change the oil at 600 miles and by washing it and hand waxing that that is all in my owners manual

[pfarmer]

I know for a fact that other than the two washes and hand coat of wax that For the time being til this problem gets resolved I won't be washing or touching the exterior of my car. And I was reading up on the new york state lemon law last night and it says that if the dealership can't fix the problem and won't fix the problem or isn't able to fix a problem on the car during the two year 12000 mile period than there is to be a full refund of the value of the car plus taxes and fees and I know I havent violated the lemon law by having this dealership change the oil at 600 miles and by washing it and hand waxing that that is all in my owners manual

In our case it has to do with number of times they have tried to fix a problem.

To me the time period and the miles should not really come totally into play since it could be beneficial for the dealer to just run the time out. Note how that thought is handled in Washingtons Lemon Law. As of right now my car may well have qualified for the first part of the requirements for its starting problem and it acted up a little bit today again.

Washington's:

What Is A Lemon?Your vehicle may qualify as a lemon if it has one or more substantial defects that have been subject to a reasonable number of attempts to diagnose or repair the problem(s) under the manufacturer's warranty. A reasonable number of attempts has occurred when one or all of the following are true:

1. Diagnosis or repair of the same serious safety defect has been attempted two or more times, and the defect continues to exist. At least one attempt must occur during the warranty period. A serious safety defect is a life-threatening malfunction that impairs the driver's ability to control or operate the vehicle, or creates a risk of fire or explosion. 2. Diagnosis or repair of the same nonconformity has been attempted four or more times, and the defect continues to exist. At least one attempt must occur during the warranty period. A nonconformity is a defect that substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the motor vehicle so as to make the vehicle unreliable, unsafe or diminished in resale value for comparable vehicles.

3. A vehicle has been out of service for diagnosis or repair of one or more nonconformities or serious safety defects (whether or not repaired) for a cumulative total of 30 calendar days, with at least 15 of those days occurring during the warranty period.

At the arbitration hearing, the arbitrator will ask you which of the above criteria applies to your vehicle. You can claim one or more of the criteria listed above as long as you can prove to the arbitrator that they apply to the defect(s) in your vehicle.

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What Is The Warranty Period?To determine whether you have a claim under Lemon Law you will have to determine whether at least one attempt to diagnose or repair each defect occurred under the manufacturer's warranty and within the warranty period. It is important to understand that, for purposes of arbitration, the warranty period may be different from the actual manufacturer's warranty. The law requires that the manufacturer's warranty cover at least 1 year or 12,000 miles (whichever occurs first). An extended service contract is not an express manufacturer's warranty under most circumstances.

When determining whether an attempt to diagnose or repair a defect meets the requirements for eligibility, the warranty period covers a diagnosis or repair occurring within 2 years from the original delivery date and 24,000 miles of operation of the vehicle.

The following are examples of how to determine whether a diagnosis or repair attempt occurred during the warranty period.

1. If the manufacturer provides the minimum warranty of one year or 12,000 miles (whichever occurs first), an eligible defect must have been: diagnosed or repaired at least once under the manufacturer's warranty within 12 months and 12,000 miles; OR out of service for a total of 30 or more cumulative calendar days due to diagnosis or repair of one or more defects that are covered by the manufacturer's warranty; at least 15 calendar days must have occurred during the manufacturer's warranty coverage of 12 months and 12,000 miles. 2. If the manufacturer provided a longer warranty (e.g. five years or 50,000 miles) an eligible defect must have been: diagnosed or repaired at least once under the manufacturer's warranty and within two years and 24,000 miles; OR out of service for a total of 30 or more cumulative calendar days due to diagnosis or repair of one or more defects that are covered by the manufacturer's warranty; at least 15 calendar days must have occurred within two years and 24,000 miles.

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While New York's may well be different make sure you are reading it correctly in regard to the warranty period which as you can see in Washington changes.

Also in Washington's law there is an 'offset of use'. Basically the more you drive it the more you have to pay to the dealer in the case of a replacement vehicle or in the case of a refund, the less you get.:

The offset for use is computed by multiplying the number of miles directly attributable to use times the purchase price (in the case of a lease, purchase price is the vehicle's capitalized cost if disclosed in the lease or if not disclosed then the manufacturer's suggested retail price) and dividing by 120,000 (Note: divide by 25,000 for a motorcycle).

Example: Based on a purchase price of $12,000 and 10,000 miles attributable to a consumer's use, the reasonable offset for use would be:

($12,000) x (10,000 miles) / 120,000 = $1,000

If you are a second or subsequent owner, a repurchase offset is based on your purchase price and a replacement offset is based on the original purchase price of the vehicle (as you will receive a new vehicle for the used vehicle you purchased).

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In other words make sure you understand what the provisions are and the requirements, a lot of the requirements in Washington have to do with your documentation. Right now from what I have seen you state, you have no documentation that you can show via work orders, etc. In Washington and I bet New York as well this could be a major issue.

Perry

[abice]

Yes I understand and the only time I have been in there was no documentation however the rep from infiniti confirmed with the service manager that they did indeed perform work on it last week and there is a problem with it and they would like to detail it, so therefore that is documented by the rep i talked with today so there is some kind of documentation and confirmation in that respect also today the rep spoke with the service manager and told them my request he replied by saying he and his manager reject my request and will not comply with my request and that the detailing is the final offer, against that I have decided to call the better bureau of business as well as tomorrow i will be getting statements from local body shops and i have gotten a lawyer so he should be able to tell me where I apply to the lemon law and now that my visit last week has been confirmed through Infiniti from the service manager to the region rep there is some kind of documentation well this is what i believe

[pfarmer]

Yes I understand and the only time I have been in there was no documentation however the rep from infiniti confirmed with the service manager that they did indeed perform work on it last week and there is a problem with it and they would like to detail it, so therefore that is documented by the rep i talked with today so there is some kind of documentation and confirmation in that respect also today the rep spoke with the service manager and told them my request he replied by saying he and his manager reject my request and will not comply with my request and that the detailing is the final offer, against that I have decided to call the better bureau of business as well as tomorrow i will be getting statements from local body shops and i have gotten a lawyer so he should be able to tell me where I apply to the lemon law and now that my visit last week has been confirmed through Infiniti from the service manager to the region rep there is some kind of documentation well this is what i believe

Let us know how this goes. Also note if you intended to post a picture you have to uploaded it first and provide that link. The one you have looks like it is on your own system.

Perry

[abice]

hm where do I upload it to?

[tdekany]

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Well I went to get my hood fixed today from the dealership and while there they told me that they saw more wax swirls and buffer swirls along the rest of the car and that they would like to take a whole day to completely polish my whole car. So I'm happy in that aspect and the fact that the kid detailing the car actually saw the same buffer marks that I saw and he agreed they need to come out and told me that he could fix it. I personally sat there and watched him put polish on the car today and how he did it the product he used was a 3M Swirl eliminator. He used the buffer machine to apply the polish and then a microfiber towel to wipe the hood down after applying the polish. He had to keep moving the car from the garage to the sunlight to see the swirls and marks so he could see where to buff them out. I agreed that as far as the wax swirls the polish did a good job, however, from this new buffing jobs I have seen that there has been new hairline scratches added to the hood and I pointed them out to the kid after he did it and he said yeah I can get those out next week when I do the whole car I just need some time to concentrate on it. So this is where I am I know that for a fact the buffer machine they are using is putting hairline scratches in the paint and that my car needs to be completely done again to get the polish from the first detailing job out. I feel like i can trust the kid who was doing it cuz I was sitting there talking with him during the whole time, and the manager said that there getting a new product from a rep next week specially for dark cars, however I just feel that the kid is a kid and not a professional someone who specialized in painting cars and knows exactly how to get thin scratches out and knows what not to do with a buffer machine in order not to completely screw up a car. So i guess now I'm planning on leaving the car with them for the day next week is this a good idea? please i really would like more advice on this cuz i'm all over the map with it and I have no clue what to do...thanks guys

did it look anything like this?