Universal National Service Act S. 89 and HR.163

[MainEvent212]

does anyone know what this is all about? from what i understand, the draft will more then likely come back and women and men will be included...can anyone explain this to me?

[Nismo_Freak]

does anyone know what this is all about? from what i understand, the draft will more then likely come back and women and men will be included...can anyone explain this to me?

The only thing you should be thinking is if I get called up, I will go and fight for my country because it is my duty.

If you don't believe in that... then you are nothing but a coward, and discrace all the men and women that fought for this country for centuries to make it what it is.

[hybrid_flyer]

I would go fight if called as well, but not everybody believes in what we fight for. Me personally I think we should butt out of everybody elses problems until we make the US the utopia it should be. Why should we care about what goes on in other parts of the world when we have so much violence in our own country? I mean seriously are we the world's baby sitter sitting around breaking up sibling fights. Screw everybody else, let them solve there own problems. As it is nobody wants our help, all they do is ***** and complain.

[elbles]

I'm sure this thread will get closed with these kind of political and very hard-hitting topics, but before it does, I want to get a word or two in. :-)

I certainly believe our country needs to be able to face our enemies in a time where such a situation occurs that we have to defend ourselves, as determined by our population. The United States is a REPUBLIC, meaning the citizens and their respective interests and rights are represented by their Congress men and women. As far as I can tell, it's been a long time since the interests of the majority of the public have been fairly represented. Not everyone believes we should be in Iraq now; whether or not it is a majority isn't known, but I have to ask why the hell not? I personally don't think we should, and there will be people who think I'm an idiot for saying that, and the same holds true for people of the opposite opinion. Bottom line, people are hardly cowards for saying "No". I sure as hell support our troops, and have the utmost respect for them, but at the same time, I have to respect someone who says "I don't think what we're doing is right"; if you think for a second another Vietnam couldn't happen, you might want to have a look at reality right about now, and at least in my opinion, it's hardly because people are cowards or a disgrace (not discrace) to their country. I'll step off my idealistic soapbox now . . . :-)

[SeVa-S13]

On a not-so-off-topic note, what happens in other countries around the world does affect us, despite what the hippies and the media say. Besides helping those less fortunate and in need (which is a big liberal/democratic thing, right? Or are people outside of your suburban microcosm not human?), the U.S. is trying to help itself aswell. Of course no one really knows what intel was had before and even now in the war, but I'd still like to think we're doing the "right" thing and I would happily take up arms if called upon.

[Nismo_Freak]

Bottom line, people are hardly cowards for saying "No". I sure as hell support our troops, and have the utmost respect for them, but at the same time, I have to respect someone who says "I don't think what we're doing is right"; if you think for a second another Vietnam couldn't happen, you might want to have a look at reality right about now, and at least in my opinion, it's hardly because people are cowards or a disgrace (not discrace) to their country. I'll step off my idealistic soapbox now . . . :-)

So by someone dodging the draft and allowing someone else to fight and die in their place isn't correct? Because they don't "like" it, it somehow makes one persons life worth more than another?

I'm sorry that doesn't float in my book. When you are called, you are called. I'm not a big Kerry fan ... but I do give him major points for actually heeding the call irregardless of his political views. He came back and fought the political fight after serving his country.

[hybrid_flyer]

On a not-so-off-topic note, what happens in other countries around the world does affect us, despite what the hippies and the media say. Besides helping those less fortunate and in need (which is a big liberal/democratic thing, right? Or are people outside of your suburban microcosm not human?), the U.S. is trying to help itself aswell. Of course no one really knows what intel was had before and even now in the war, but I'd still like to think we're doing the "right" thing and I would happily take up arms if called upon.

well i am not saying that other countries do not affect us. Better than goin in and trying to "help" this other countries I think the US should go back to what its good at. Walking in kickin *** and taking over. We need new space to help disperse our over population. I know its a barbaric view, but basically the US is an empire and we might as well start acting like it

[w1ngzer0]

So by someone dodging the draft and allowing someone else to fight and die in their place isn't correct? Because they don't "like" it, it somehow makes one persons life worth more than another?

I'm sorry that doesn't float in my book. When you are called, you are called. I'm not a big Kerry fan ... but I do give him major points for actually heeding the call irregardless of his political views. He came back and fought the political fight after serving his country.

bah, just becuase someone dodges the draft doesn't make them a horrible person they choose not to join the army of robots. Some people are born here not wanting to be here. It's not their choice.

So, dodging vietnam makes them cowards? nope. They lost and a lot of them went nuts.

So ... say.... the government wants to take over canada and mexico to expand (even though it has no reason to being there is still a **** load of areas to expand on), and they start the draft to start pillaging. Thats not a good reason to dodge the draft?

[gabossie]

If the draft was reinstated and you're called, either go fight or be a conciencious objector. Personally, I will not go kill others for something I don't believe in, but I'm not going to run away from it either. If I'm lucky, I'll spend my time in a community service position, if not I'll go to jail and be charged with a felony. Sucks, but I wont fight and I wont run, it's the right thing to do.

[rno240]

well i am not saying that other countries do not affect us. Better than goin in and trying to "help" this other countries I think the US should go back to what its good at. Walking in kickin *** and taking over. We need new space to help disperse our over population. I know its a barbaric view, but basically the US is an empire and we might as well start acting like it

This is exactly what other countries hate about us. The arrogance of thinking that every problem in the world is solved by becoming a Christian based Democracy. Values are different in every culture and peace is not achived by crushing those who think differentlly, but by being tolerant and supportive of those differences. By learning what other cultures have to offer, we understand them. War is usually bred by fear and there is no bigger fear than fear of the unknown. Make an effort to get to know someone from every culture, ask them about their beliefs and values, trust me, they will be willing to explain it.

There are radical nut cases in every part of the world and from every belief (or lack of), Ireland-Catholic against Christian; Former Yugoslavia- Christian against Muslim, USA- White Supremasist Militias, Christians killing those who support abortion, etc. It's easier to look at other.

One last point, is this war in Iraq right? No. Is it the troops fault, No. Do I support the war? No. Do I support the troop? HELL YES!

[w1ngzer0]

One last point, is this war in Iraq right? No. Is it the troops fault, No. Do I support the war? No. Do I support the troops? HELL YES!

thats all that should matter. Damn hippys from the early 70's didn't and they are teh gay.

[D1SR240]

i thought the war was over, why would there be a draft?

[elbles]

For one, you're assuming that another person would go and die in their place. But, that aside, what's the point in going over to fight if your heart isn't in it? How does that benefit anyone? In fact, I believe it can often make things worse. The US has been involved in a few wars since we became a nation, and probably up until Vietnam, Americans were in the wars for very legitimate reasons. We were fighting for our independence, we were fighting a man who was killing millions of people based on their religion, while attempting to conquer the world. Since then, what have we faced? A proxy war in Vietnam because we were scared of the Soviets? Looking back, does anyone actually think that the Soviets were a real threat to us? People may have dodged the draft then for varying reasons, but you'd have to admit it was the first time our country went to war, with quite a few people who believed the reasoning behind it to be wrong. The same is true now; while our economy is suffering, billions upon billions are being spent to fund the wars in the Middle East, with more and more talk everyday of sending more troops over, and for what? To preserve security? I obviously don't believe we should even be there, and so do quite a few others. Why recruit people like me to go over there and possibly die for "our" country, when, depending on what statistic you use, the "country" doesn't support a war out there? I just wish the interests of the people would be represented the way the founders of the country intended, instead of bureaucrats of both major political parties turning it into an election issue, ignoring the voice of the people in the process. When the country starts being run like that, you have to wonder what we're fighting for in the first place . . .

[s13sr20chris]

Looking back, does anyone actually think that the Soviets were a real threat to us?

]

oh

my

gosh

...

are you serious bro?

[nismofly]

...we were scared of the Soviets? Looking back, does anyone actually think that the Soviets were a real threat to us?

ok theres this thing people call m.a.d. it stands for mutually assured destruction and wut it basically means is that the reason we never actually fought the soviets is because both sides knew how much power they had and that the world would have ended if both sides fired off their entire arsenal at one time, in fact the world would have been blown up 24 times over at the peak of the cold war

[nismofly]

o yah and we only lost in vietnam because the government insisted on running the show from washington, they had no idea wut was goin on and they put too many limitations on the military

[Mr1der]

Freedom ain't free homeboys.

you can argue about how we're not truly free all you want.

but hey, our women can walk around without bringing the bedsheets with them.

it's Selective service. They do it so you're on file if the dire need for it ever rises.

You'll probably get a nice razor out of it

[DrifterXRPS13]

they don't bring their "bedsheets" with them, they wear those for religious reasons, not because they're not free, way to be ignorant, at least they're modest unlike the women in this great country of ours that walk around wiith pieces of clothing barely covering any skin, showing off that great "american" ***, way to teach our children how to live in this world, come on, give me a break. Your right though freedom isn't free, because we're taking it away from all the iraqi's right now, but the funny thing is just by being there and doing what we're doing, we're taking away our own freedoms too. don't get me wrong, i love my freedoms, but i'm not fighting for something "I" don't believe in, and i won't fight against "my" own people. say what you will, and i'll say what i will, isn't that what this country's founded on?

[D Money]

women cant walk around naked though. and we definetly dont live in the land of the free. most european countries are much more free than we are

[GEO]

I for one am not going to die for the US being stupid in this appraoch. EVERYONE over in those arbaic countires are threats. WOmen, CHildern and the MEN. We should just NUKE the **** out of the country and end it. NO more IRAQ.

[SmithSR]

GEO, that would kill the just with the unjust alike.

Not going to happen. Just like this thread will not continue down the slippery slope or else it gets

teh CHOP!

[DrifterXRPS13]

And the award for most ignorant person goes to (drum roll)....GEO, great idea, because of comments like this one is why every other country hates us, congrats!

[Cyberkreig]

S.89 Title: A bill to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes. Sponsor: Sen Hollings, Ernest F. [SC] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (None) Related Bills: H.R.163Latest Major Action: 1/7/2003 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

Here we can see that this bill was introduced in january of 2003. Right, almost two years ago. It had no cosponsors. it was reffered to committee where it died.

H.R.163Title: To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes. Sponsor: Rep Rangel, Charles B. [NY-15] (introduced 1/7/2003) Cosponsors (14) Related Bills: S.89Latest Major Action: 2/3/2003 House committee/subcommittee actions. Status: Executive Comment Requested from DOD

here we can see the related bill. Also introduced in January of 2003. Two years ago. This bill did have a moderate support with two of its 14 supporters comming on late in 2004. Election politics? We can see that the last relevant action on either bill was in Febuary of 2003. This bill was reffered to the DOD for "Executive comment" Meaning that the sub committe found that they needed the advice of the DOD. Advice that has never come

Both bills are dead. This is just stupid Election crap.

[elbles]

OK, I guess I hit a nerve. :-)

The Soviets were no more a threat to us than we were to them. Both sides knew that if we were to go to war with one another, it would be the end of the world, in all likelihood. There were probably Soviet general secretaries/leaders early on in the Soviet era who, if nuclear weapons had existed at the time, might have very well used them, knowing full well what would have happened, but other than that, Khrushchev was the closest the world came to World War III, with the advent of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and that was averted. Looking back on it, the Cold War can be likened more to a rivalry between Yankee and Red Sox fans; always intense, and always something people love to watch because of the fear of an all out brawl among fans and players, but has it ever really happened? (I'll run from any Yankee or Red Sox fans who believe it has, hehe)

Also, when I mentioned what we are fighting for, I wasn't referring to freedom; it's almost ironic that you all assumed that is what I was referring to, because that is how it has been portrayed by the media and the politicians. That the war on terror is to preserve the American way of life (which most people interpret to mean freedom, rather naively, I might add) is a rather narrow minded thought. Sure, we need to preserve freedom, but what I was really referring to was fighting for our right to have a say in a government created by the people, for the people. Freedom of speech is a part of that, yes, and we are exercising that right; the problem there is our speech is being given, but it is falling upon deaf ears, with the politicians utilizing this war on terror as an election agenda, all while ignoring the people whose lives are affected the most by it. I understand that there could be times in the future where the Selective Service system has to be utilized; I registered like any 18+ year old American male has to, without any worries or regrets, because I believed at the time in the fact that it would only be utilized when the people decided it needed to be enacted, not a bunch of bureaucrats who are using the war on terror as an election agenda, while playing with the lives of soldiers in the process. I would certainly hope people would understand my point of view on this now, but I'd love to hear more on the subject . . . it hasn't gotten too political yet, thank god. ;-)

Oh, and GEO . . . the times of imperialistic cultures are pretty much dead. I sincerely hope you don't truly think that "nuking" the entire Middle East is a solution to the problems plaguing the world; there are varying points of views as to who is right, and who is wrong regarding who and what are terrorists or is terrorism, but the solution can't be to get rid of just one side; if that could be considered a solution, I'm just glad as hell you weren't running either the US or USSR during October of 1962. :-)

EDITED about a million times, due to about a million typos, with plenty left I'm sure . . . sue me, it's been a long day, with a lot of classwork, projects, et cetra, heh.

[SmithSR]

Enough with the political cheap shots already.

Nobody can convince anybody of anything. Except me. If I lock your thread, then I am the evil dictator, legislating from the bench(or in this case, my pimp italian leather swivel chair) and not allowing the people their right to free speech..

So please we can either talk about the issue at hand or we can spin the issue into a long-winded partisan diatribe that nobody will read or care about.

I admire a guy who has so much to do on a school night, but would rather spend time posting on the internet message board of record. So, from now on we will not take cheap shots or I'll get out the eraser and wipe the chalkboard of forum political topics clean with but one fell swoop and you'll all be angry. but probably still won't register to vote.

[elbles]

Enough with the political cheap shots already.

Nobody can convince anybody of anything. Except me. If I lock your thread, then I am the evil dictator, legislating from the bench(or in this case, my pimp italian leather swivel chair) and not allowing the people their right to free speech..

So please we can either talk about the issue at hand or we can spin the issue into a long-winded partisan diatribe that nobody will read or care about.

I admire a guy who has so much to do on a school night, but would rather spend time posting on the internet message board of record. So, from now on we will not take cheap shots or I'll get out the eraser and wipe the chalkboard of forum political topics clean with but one fell swoop and you'll all be angry. but probably still won't register to vote.

Talk about your cheap shots right there . . .

For one, I had finished my work, and getting on NICO to unwind, a good debate of factual issues is interesting to me . . . don't care too much if no one cares to hear it. I fail to see where I made any cheap shots, other than possibly the 1962 shot on GEO, but given what was said, I think that might have been justified.

Bottom line, a draft is very unlikely to happen, but if it were to happen, I could find justification in "dodging" it, if the purpose is for the same as it would appear likely to be today. No reasons necessary, I think I've explained myself well enough above. And, for what it's worth, though I doubt you care SmithSR, I am registered to vote, and have not decided which of the two realistic canidates is the lesser of two evils, though my vote will be heard.

[Cyberkreig]

its like i post with invisible ink.

[SmithSR]

Elbles don't roll your eyes. Notice I was giving big ups to NICO, pointing out that you've got so much going on but you still would rather put the time into NICO. But the time/energy would be better spent posting about cars, not politicians.

Cyberkreig i read where it says both bills are dead. So the rest is just, election year pandering/politiking, lie, cheat, and steal. We do not allow such antics!

Elbles why would I not care if you register to vote, if I take time away from my personal life, to post a motivational comment about "quit internetting and go register and excersize your right to vote" but as you have posted, you are registered already. Bravo! Be an example, and help others do the right thing by registering and letting their voice be heard at the election day poll...where it matters, and counts.

[s13sr20chris]

i agree with smithsr went from two dead bills to some lib vs con arguing quick. maybe we keep talking about the dead bills eh? i will share how my views have changed over the years and you can(or not) relate.

3 years ago when 9/11 happened i was pretty much the same as now. i was however a peacenik. i had never served my country(nor have i now) because i considered myself a pacifist(sp?). that was not biblical but i thought it was. please forgive my references to the bible and stuff. it may not govern your thought process but it does mine. i was only 21 at the time and many people mentioned that i might be drafted if it was reinstated. i told them that i was a pacifist with a wife and two cats to support. i said i would not leave my wife for any extended period of time like that. thank God for his grace in not giving me what i deserved in that cowardly moment. i would not listen to reason.

over time i realised that the bible is not for the hardcore pacifist. jesus taught humility in turning the other cheak but he never said dont defend your family and freinds. i have no right to fight back if i am under attack(as my pride would have me do) but i must defend my family with my life(as Christ layed down his life for his bride/the church). the bible is also clear about obeying the government and other authorities.

so there you have it. if you dont want to fight, thats fine. just dont anyone use the reasons i used(though im sure few of you would). this is NOT an attempt to "convert" anyone. i just dont want to see you make the same mistake. i am ashamed of my cowardice and i live with the comments i made. can we not be so political right now? there is an election coming and i want to argue as much as the next guy. lets save it for after the election when we are less riled up.

[elbles]

Sorry, I was pretty tired at the time, and I was pretty sure you were being sarcastic in saying how I had so much to do, yet was almost wasting time on NICO. It's been a long few weeks, hehe . . .

Same thing with the voting comment, it just sounded sort of negative to me at the time. I obviously have my opinions on certain subjects, and am not at all passive regarding how they affect the country. Because of that, I certainly plan on voting. NICO obviously might not be the political forum of the Internet, but around election time, it always seems inevitable that it comes up, and I'm Irish . . . come on, of course I might speak my mind. ;-) Enough of the politics then, heh . . . no hard feelings. :-)