Universal National Service Act S. 89 and HR.163

[hybrid_flyer]

geez this got all bad real quick anyway I found the Robin William's rant I was looking for hopefully this will attach

[JDMaholic]

This is exactly what other countries hate about us. The arrogance of thinking that every problem in the world is solved by becoming a Christian based Democracy. Values are different in every culture and peace is not achived by crushing those who think differentlly, but by being tolerant and supportive of those differences. By learning what other cultures have to offer, we understand them. War is usually bred by fear and there is no bigger fear than fear of the unknown. Make an effort to get to know someone from every culture, ask them about their beliefs and values, trust me, they will be willing to explain it.

There are radical nut cases in every part of the world and from every belief (or lack of), Ireland-Catholic against Christian; Former Yugoslavia- Christian against Muslim, USA- White Supremasist Militias, Christians killing those who support abortion, etc. It's easier to look at other.

One last point, is this war in Iraq right? No. Is it the troops fault, No. Do I support the war? No. Do I support the troop? HELL YES!

Wow took the words out of my mouth exactly.Oh and I think some situations have to solved with war like WWII where there is not other choice, but it seems many can be solved diplomatically or may not actually be problems. I don't feel that a peaceful solution was attempted hard enough. That's why the UN didn't approve. I do support our troops though there out there getting shot at and it's not there fault.

[w1ngzer0]

geez this got all bad real quick anyway I found the Robin William's rant I was looking for hopefully this will attach

lol nice

[Axoure Dragonkin]

Sad thing is, the second we leave Iraq, no matter who wins our election, the most powerful guy in the country is going to take over again.

At least, with Saddam in power, there was an internal conflict in the Middle East. Saddam being the 'rather' secular Stalin-esk dictator, and Iran being the extremist Islamic block. Unforuntaly, as we have already born witness to, Al-Queda now operates with Iraq where it didn't before (Saddam routed out and killed suspected cells). So, the obvisous conclusion is that an extremist Islamic group will eventually win Iraq and then the **** will hit the fan.

Anyone else notice how this war seems to resemble Vietnam? AKA The memos asking top generals how to fight this war "on the cheap", where the generals wanted to do it right.

[SmithSR]

No, you see, this was dead already and we were going to lay it to rest.

No more politics. The message just does not pass well over the internet. Enjoy whatever news agency best fits your agenda, but don't bring that filth in here. all it does is ruin the friendly atmosphere we work to preserve. Driving a wedge between members is all political discussions do. Nobody accepts anybody else's point of view, they just raise their voice to shout over everybody else, then some body else gets mad and want's their opinion to be heard and accepted, and next thing you know, it's a big shouting match.

Happens every time so it will not be tolerated, period.

[Axoure Dragonkin]

over time i realised that the bible is not for the hardcore pacifist. jesus taught humility in turning the other cheak but he never said dont defend your family and freinds. i have no right to fight back if i am under attack(as my pride would have me do) but i must defend my family with my life(as Christ layed down his life for his bride/the church). the bible is also clear about obeying the government and other authorities.

What if you were your family's only source of livelihood? Would not fighting back then be justified as your death or incapacity would harm them? What about going to war and dying, then President W cutting back your family's money for you being KIA? What about the Vietnam veterans that are being denied health services that the govenment promised them that are being diverted to pay for this war? What about the cutting back of combat pay? What about the war being fought "on the cheap", not having the equipment or men you need to win properly? Is that protecting your family?

I believe the bible is for the hardcore Jew. You still shouldn't eat pork, Sabbath is Fri night to Sat night, and you still need a circumcission. Was Paul a liar? Did Paul teach against Torah, when he said while he was on trial he didn't? That would make Paul a liar, right? Read it, very carefully. Biblical Writing (being the ultimate source of God's word) often conflicts with Doctorine.

Refering to all Presidents, does not the bible say, "It is easier to lead a camal through the eye of a needle than a rich man into Heaven"? Sorry President Bush, sorry Senator Kerry, you both lose the "biblical" morality game.

Whoever wins in '04, we lose.

--Jewish by heritage, Christian by history, Buddhist by lack of genocidal tendencies, Nissan 240sx owner

[sleepyRPS13]

If you don't believe in that... then you are nothing but a coward, and discrace all the men and women that fought for this country for centuries to make it what it is.

fought by lies, pillaging, massacre, taking a country from the natives.sorry, i just saw "500 nations" on discovery channel, makes me wanna puke in thanksgiving.

you can send me to fight invaders aliens from space and killer robots, ill gladly fight, but killing other ppl, ill have bad nightmares.

ill fight killer zombies too

[s13sr20chris]

bro, lets keep this as apolitical and thread related as posible. that being said paul did not lie. jesus was the fulfillment of the law. email me a [email protected] i will explain further. does doctrine not agree with the bible? only false doctrine. i have many examples of this so shoot me an email.

as for being drafted...its simple. i believe God to be all powerfull so if he calls me to fight i must obey. likewise if he calls me to turn the other cheek i still must obey.as the word says, "come, let us reasone together".[email protected] would appreciate the conversation.

[w1ngzer0]

i wish this thread was like france. There is no religion allowed to be shown in public in that country :P

[hybrid_flyer]

i wish this thread was like france. There is no religion allowed to be shown in public in that country :P

i agree and like this idea also

[GEO]

Guys I was joking.. lol.. But I am not going to go and fight someone else's war. We should jsut pull out and let them kill themselves off... and just beef our secuirty up.

[w1ngzer0]

i think the usa is over doing WW1-2. They think if they don't go to every country that seems like they would bomb us, they go to war with them.

If you think about it thats kinda how it is. Before the WW's you notice we built up our military and just stood around while europe was getting raped?

[justmerging]

One last point, is this war in Iraq right? No. Is it the troops fault, No. Do I support the war? No. Do I support the troop? HELL YES!

Those of us in the military thank you for that. We don't ask that you support what we do or why we do it. Hell, half of us don't agree what we are fighting for. We just do what we're told when we're told as the president directs us.

As far as bringing back the draft. I don't think it will actually happen(at least not for the Marines. We have a ton of people signing up everyday so that they can "defend the nation against terrorists". That and I think it would actually harm the military. Let's face it, alot of people just can't handle the military way of life. That's why not everybody joins. I'm not saying that you couldn't survive it or you couldn't actually do it. It's just a totally different way of life that many of you are not used to and it's difficult to adjust. Luckily if I need to get away from it I have people like you guys in the 240 community to take my mind of it.

[hannibal]

If the draft was reinstated and you're called, either go fight or be a conciencious objector.

Conscientious objectors are required to serve as well. THey are placed in noncombat roles, such as maintenance and support or medical services. They can be on the battle front just as other troops are. The ony difference is that they dont give you a gun.

The only thing you should be thinking is if I get called up, I will go and fight for my country because it is my duty.

If you don't believe in that... then you are nothing but a coward, and discrace all the men and women that fought for this country for centuries to make it what it is.

I completely agree with the fact that it is our duty to serve our country adn to fight for what we believe. But if you think that laws passed by a group of individuals known as Congress should override your personal beliefs, then you are a coward, and disgrace all the men and women...

This country was founded on the principles and ideals of a society. We have to remember that society makes these laws; the laws will never make society. America is only as just and moral as its citizens and their leaders. WE make this place what it is. The name America means absolutely nothing without the morals and principles we govern our lives by. America will never be 'right'. America will never define justice. America is not, has never been, and will never be any greater than other countries on this globe. Only the American people can make this claim. Its not about our country, our religion, our wealth. Its about who we are as individuals that make this nation what it is.To end my rant, I'll say that our country is not without blemish. We have made mistakes in the past and I promise we'll make more in the future. What brought us thru those periods was our conviction that good always wins over evil, and morality can defeat the most inhumane enemy. America isnt what you see around you, its the person you see in the mirror.

This is my opinion, not designed to illicit a response from those who disagree. But I'm sure Greg/SmithSR will have this thread locked or deleted soon.
Modified by IWannaS15 at 3:37 PM 9/23/2004

[Drift Machine]

[QUOTE=rno240]There are radical nut cases in every part of the world and from every belief (or lack of), Ireland-Catholic against Christian; [/QUOTE=rno240]

Woah Woah......try not to make any references to things you obviously have no knowledge about their mister. I know what I'm picking at here has not much to do with the overall discussion. But it really pisses me off when people automatically assume that it's a war between Catholics and Protestants, it's not. It's really an ongoing war between the Irish and the English. And the Irish are only fighting back after 700 years of repression and being tortured. Now I'm not saying that I agree with such groups as the IRA or IRB. Since I really don't see how anyone could hope to ever achieve total peace through violence. Just so you know that I'm not speaking out of my ***, yes I do live in Ireland more specifically Limerick and if you know anything about Limerick it's a very anti-english city.

[Altiman94]

we just had a discussion abotu this in my western civ class. More than likely the bill will not even be voted on, however, if we ever do have another draft women WILL be included. That's part of equal rights. If they want equal rights they must also have equal responsibilities. Freedom doesn't come free. Every American should be poised and ready to fight for those freedoms that we so dearly love.

[Cyberkreig]

SmithSR. This thread is suppose to be about HR.163 and S.89.

Do Nico a favor. Quote my post and lock this thread.

[w1ngzer0]

Those of us in the military thank you for that. We don't ask that you support what we do or why we do it. Hell, half of us don't agree what we are fighting for. We just do what we're told when we're told as the president directs us.

As far as bringing back the draft. I don't think it will actually happen(at least not for the Marines. We have a ton of people signing up everyday so that they can "defend the nation against terrorists". That and I think it would actually harm the military. Let's face it, alot of people just can't handle the military way of life. That's why not everybody joins. I'm not saying that you couldn't survive it or you couldn't actually do it. It's just a totally different way of life that many of you are not used to and it's difficult to adjust. Luckily if I need to get away from it I have people like you guys in the 240 community to take my mind of it.

Yah, my friend is in the navy. He wanted to do something with his life, he was a druggy and just fooled around not thinking about a career. So, good for some not good for me

[Anand]

no more political threads....

I don't want to see how ignorant some of you really are...

politics should be disscussed only in person AND with enough beer/Alcohol to last you the whole conversation... otherwise.. no go!