Unhappy with the Q45 forum.. Open to suggestions.

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:32 pm

I admit, I havent spent as much time in the forum as I used to, and I certainly regret that, but not much I can do about it at this time... Over Christmas im going to have some free time so......... I dont know if you notice my absence as much but I know I've not been around as much, main reason why I brought 96Qowner on board..

Anyway, I think a lot of what we think are problems need to re-evaluate and look in the mirror.... Theres been a lot of tension around, and its not going to continue.. This may be growing pains but if theres any problems it needs to be addressed before this turns really sour...

We have basically the same core group of people, and it seems as of recent everyone is at others throats. In other words, the people havent changed (as far as the "regulars" or people w ho have been around for more than a year)....

I am open to any suggestions you guys may have... The LAST thing I want to do is start moderating hardcore.. I want to be a group of friends that sit around and chat about Q45s.. I dont want to be the good cop/bad cop... I dont think that is too much to ask...

There have been a lot of inappropriate comments.. So heres my suggested course of action... ANYTIME you get miffed about a comment, wait 5 minutes before hitting the post button... Cool down for a second...

It is without a doubt the best Q45 forum on the internet, and I would dare say one of the best VEHICLE SPECIFIC forums on the net. One of the things that has kept me in my Q45, outside of being mentally insane for owning one in the first place, is this forum... I feel that I could tackle about any job on the Q45 that I wanted with enough time.

Post by **qship96** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:47 pm

I agree WesI obviously am caught up in the middle of this mess-maybe it is the holiday stress getting to us all?Why dont we start with deleting the entire "upper links" thread that I started-there really is nothing positive or informative about the entire thread needed for future use,other than the Nismo bushings are available and should be tried and evaluated for possible benefit of all of us.What started out as a possible "find" for all to benefit from quickly spiraled downward into the sewer-I for one,regret the entire banter both given and recieved.My appologies go out to Brian,Dennis and the entire Nico membership.

Post by **AlabamaDan** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:58 pm

I've noticed a decline in activity the last couple of weeks. No suggestions other than asking for people to look for the best in others and assume good intentions.

Post by **maxnix** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:58 pm

Wish you had time to moderate, Wes. You made a few mistakes when you were younger in the beginning, but you learned and improved. That's what is critical for any moderator. His role is to defend a standard for the level of posts, not a particular pet fallacy.

Secondly, you didn't tolerate newbies calling long time members names nor asserting untruths out of ignorance or plain laziness. There has always been a respect here for thoughtful discussion and hard facts as evidenced by Dennis' posts. Many of us who came to Q45 when they still cost money would never have taken the leap without the benefit of Dennis' insights from his experience. Now that they are so cheap any monkey can afford one, ......well, either we have a zoo or retain the level of integrity or the the orignal posts of the original members.

Also, the abandonment of forum discipline means many of the old Q45 posts form Infiniti General were never moved, the search tutorial is not evident to the new Member, and now any problem can be posted anywhere. We sure miss Rob and even Ross. Of course originally, there were no moderators of Infiniti General (the only Forum for Q45 at the time) except for AZHitman leaning when he had to.

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:24 pm

qship- I dont want to pin this down on you, but certainly that thread sparked things... Its been a noticeable decline and I figured it was just one of those "times" but its been going on for a while now, so i figured I'd mention it.

I appreciate your apology, thank you very much.

Brian, thanks for the comments. What do you think I did wrong when I first came on board??

I think a search tutorial would be good, let me work on something, worst case I will post something as a sticky.

Post by **Jesda** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:34 pm

Just tell the retards to quit being retards.

If the Q45 section dies NICO is dead to me. This is the last bastion of intelligence, reason, and wisdom on the forum.

Post by **Magnum PI** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:42 pm

Aside from some threads that were hijacked for colorful commentary which "outsiders" like me could not relate to nor care to comment on, this site renewed my personal loyalty to the brand. As a 17 year owner of 2 G50s, this site has saved me alot of time and money, not to mention enticed me to spend more time and money on my 94 Q45. Now I don't want to give it up because I know I will find out how to keep it alive with your help. So don't give up, its a great site and resource for many of us owners. Cut the negative comments and many others will eventually find their way here....

Post by **gammer_ghn** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 pm

Stop flaming Y33 owners Geez we know were stuck with the downgrade in power but damn man last time I felt so much awkwardness was when I went black friends party…. try being the only Armenian or light skinned person in a crowd like that i was considered an alien but wow it was fun in the end... point is yes you guys have the supreme 4.5 but at the end of the day we need help too instead of being made fun of.... that’s all

Post by **bullittandy** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:58 am

Do you/peoplewant real, honest suggestions? Yes? No?

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:22 am

gammer_ghn wrote:Stop flaming Y33 owners Geez we know were stuck with the downgrade in power but damn man last time I felt so much awkwardness was when I went black friends party…. try being the only Armenian or light skinned person in a crowd like that i was considered an alien but wow it was fun in the end... point is yes you guys have the supreme 4.5 but at the end of the day we need help too instead of being made fun of.... that’s all

I certainly dont mean any offense, im just yankin your chain.. You guys have arguably better looking cars (I dont think so but most do) and you certainly dont worry about maintenance a lot less...

Andy, I want honest suggestions... If you feel you shouldnt post them on here, please email.

Post by **Q45tech** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:43 am

Maybe a separate place for 97-01 as really there are so many mechanical differences compared to 90-96. Starter, alternator locations, suspensions, fuel pump control, injectors, TCS, coils,.............nothing interchangable.

What you know on one model is pretty useless on the other except basic theory of operation.

Like mixing cats and dogs...............no pun intended.........................................................................................................................

What drives me batty is the referral to other brands and era.......my grandpa's 1955 Studebaker or my Pinto/Honda/ never had these problems or worse was fixed by wiggling the discombugulator valve, or my I4 [2600#] was so cheap to fix and the V8 [4300#] is so expensive.

What it is, is what it is. It was designed [by the best they had] in the late 1980's for 90's production subsequently they learned how to make things cheaper and almost as good or better in some rare cases.

The early Q was a envelope stretch and as such wear was expected and it was assummed that people who made $100,000/yr back in 1990 would not even consider maintenance and repair cost as germaine. There was no consideration for the used buyers and cost to maintain after warranty just like MB and the other Germans they copied.

Post by **NightRiderQ45** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:36 am

One thing that I didn't like when I first joined the website was the "car bashing" that one guy took when he posted his Y33. People called it a "donk" and a 4x4 and all types of bulls**t. I myself own a Y33 also, but I'm kind of reluctant to post pics, not because my car doesn't look good, but to save my self from being upset if someone tries to bash my Y33 because it doesn't look like the "VIP". People put a lot of time and money into their cars, so for someone to bash it because it doesn't have the "VIP" is stupid. Half of the people on here who bash cars doesn't have pics of their car posted and I can almost guarantee that my is in better condition (interior & exterior) than most hardcore basher.

To sum this up, use the Golden Rule with your posts gentlemen. I understand constructive critism, but some people push it to the limit. And also, if this forum only wants cars that are VIP, then make it to where you can't sign up unless you have that style of car. Until then, this forum will continue to have different styles of Y33s, so stop with the bashing!!

Post by **96Qowner** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:38 am

It doesn't have to be a big deal.

I'm new to moderating (but not to forums and all the other moderators over the years), so I've had to consider what responsibility I want to shoulder for the demeanor of this Forum. Posters are always going to get on each others' nerves - just happens - the written word is NOT the same as the spoken word. I told Wes, when I accepted Moderator, that I would do it because I didn't think I'd have to be breaking up many fights on the Q45 Forum. The little squabbles we've seen recently are NOT a big deal. I've had to edit some posts and delete some others - whatever. I'm sure there'll be others.

The thing to remember is that no one comes here to read about your personal problems with another NICO member. Some members, some posts, annoy the hell out of me, but I always remind myself that no one really wants to read about it on the Q45 Forum, so I just don't post about it. The people who made the annoying posts have already made their impression on other readers - I sure don't need to point a finger at them. Those posts are archived and future readers will make their own judgments about the usefulness of that member's posts. Not my job to "counsel" them or to help them preserve their reputation.

I will edit or delete posts that are clearly out of line, and those that I think sully the reputation of the Forum. It's all about the legacy of this Forum. As Librarian, I have come to know and love the body of knowledge we've assembled here - an amazing archive. The tutorial is a good idea, but people are always going to need help Searching and everyone can count on me to find leads from old threads.

Having said all that, there are three suggestions I'd like to make:

1) I suggest that we all just recognize to ourselves whose posts are helpful and whose aren't and not bother to post about it.

2) I suggest that we all make an effort to provide something useful every time we bother to post. Your opinion of another member doesn't qualify as something useful. Simply telling someone to Search also doesn't qualify. If you're too tired or bored or frustrated to help, then you're too tired to post, ok?

3) I suggest we all make it a priority to ADD whatever we can to the NICO body of knowledge. We need more Y33 threads in the archives. Pictures and how-tos are especially welcome. Tangalora put us all to shame - we could at least try a pale imitation once in awhile. Kudos to those like qsiguy, who have taken the time and made the effort to fully document a fix or mod complete with pics.

Just not a big deal - keep the Drama to yourselves - tell your friend or spouse, not us, and all will be well.

(And now this post will be in the archives for all to judge - I coulda just kept my mouth shut. )

Post by **sdkhalsa** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:19 am

I am a great fan of the site, without which my 94 Q would be too much of a burden to keep. Sometimes the flaming gets a bit out of hand, but I do not find it an overwhelming problem. I would like to see more detailing information and "how to's" on the site. Maybe these could be solicited by Wes and others. For example, I need to change out my rack and pinion unit, and even though it is not rocket science, I would love to see some pictures of someone who has done it. Yes, it is in the shop manual, but not in great detail. Typically you do one of these jobs knowing after the fact that you could have doubled your efficiency with what you had learned.

Post by **Mopar** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:11 am

I want to add a couple of things too.

First of all, I want to say that this is a great site for learning about Q's and even about cars in general!. I don't post much, but I go over every thread that is posted in this forum. I have learned a lot about cars and Q's while lurking around and reading posts.

Now to the suggestions,

Wes, I think it's just internet. With millions of people on the net it's hard to find something or a topic that satisfies everyone. Some people like 20+ inch rims some like the classy stock look. SO WHAT! there is no need for name calling and adding fuel to the fire by saying "thug lifer" or whatever just because someone got that "pimped" out look on their car. And most of the people that do have that kind of cars are "young" age grouped people and obviously they are not going to shut their mouths to much older age group's criticism. At the end, the person has spent a lot of time and money to make that car look like that and they just want to share. There is nothing wrong with not commenting if you don't like it.

We should not judge people if they are a "noobie" or an "old timer" either. A moderator should be blind to those things and judge by the usefulness of the post.

For me personally, I don't care about other people's comments about the car. Overall it's MY car and I make it look like the way that I want it to be. But if you post a picture of your car online, you should be open to criticism, because not everyone is going to like it.

Overall, I haven't seen enough of tension in the forum to stop coming here for information, but I have to agree it's starting to take the point away.

What can we do? Just stop the name calling and hurting other people's feeling about their cars and such. Some people are too attached to their cars and insulting the car is well insulting the owner. So please play nice.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my thoughts.

Good luck everyone.

Post by **Haitian_King** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:54 am

Not to nitpick, but I resent the "monkey" comment and feel that it's out of line.

We've come to a point where there is an age gap. Sure, some of you old-timers bought Q's when they were recent. We members of the younger crowd have always admired the cars and were ecstatic the day we got them. (At least I know I was.)

Just because you purchased yours for $42,000 and someone else bought the car for $3500, doesn't mean that the level of appreciation and commitment to the car are any different. I absolutely love my '92 and I wouldn't trade it for the world. I've always loved Q's and I'm proud to be an owner.

I think that we all need to remember that at one point and time, we were ALL ignorant of Q45's. No one was "born" an Infiniti Tech. I've been on the board less than a year, and I know MUCH more than I did upon joining. I'd never done any sort of repairs/modifications on my previous car. I was proud when I took apart the center console, installed a new HVAC, assembled the console and added a Burl kit. Nothing I love more than working on the Q and making it better, be it dusting the dashboard or tinkering around under the hood.

Some of the older gents need to get off the pedestal and remember that they are mortal. The younger guys (myself included) need to stop being so rash and impetuous.

Nobody's perfect.

Post by **NightRiderQ45** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:51 pm

brymax wrote:
Not that there's anything wrong with being tarded.

Or black.... Or a woman..... Or gay!Or even... A retarded black gay woman.

Just tryin to keep it PC round here!

I resent this comment... but I guess the mod think this statement is ok.

Post by **laidbackblk45** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:55 pm

Let me just say this. I have only been on this site for a very short time compared to many of you and I have to say that this site is GREAT!!!!! I have owned 3 Infinitis (Qx4, G35, Q45), 2 Nissans and I have always loved the Qs. Yes they are expensive to maintain but isn't everything that is worth it.

I have found out more in the short time from this site then I have at any Infiniti dealership and I have had the pleasure of dealing with some great dealerships. But we should not spend our time talking a/b ourselves (G50 vs Y33, etc.). We should leave that to the MB and BMW owners to talk a/b us. Infiniti has had technologies in their cars for years that the competitors are just now getting. How many times have we seen someone driving a MB or BMW and giggled to ourselves thinking idiot. And how many times have you seen a nice Q no matter what type (G50, Y33, F50, whatever) and said "man, thats a nice car"

Let's just work together to keep our cars on the road and not looking rundown like so many of the MB's and BMW's I have seen lately.

Post by **laidbackblk45** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:00 pm

What's up Nupe (NightRiderQ45)! I would love to send pictures of your car. Disregard that comment. I think he was just trying to make a point by having us be more PC in here but sometimes we can read something on this board and it can come off different then what what meant regardless of how many emoticons we put.

Post by **96Qowner** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:13 pm

NightRiderQ45 wrote:
I resent this comment... but I guess the mod think this statement is ok.

There's nothing to resent - I'm quite sure brymax had a big grin on his face. But I will sure delete it since you thought it was worth posting about - twice.

Now maybe we can dispense with any more drama? You can call me a retarded old fart, and I'll feel bad because you insulted me directly, not because you used the words retarded and fart. OK??

Post by **Jesda** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:42 pm

LOL, brymax was joking about political correctness. Thats the irony of your complaint.

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:32 pm

Thanks for the comments guys, now I hope we can all practice what we preach..

Post by **Haitian_King** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:57 pm

I'll give it the old college try.

Post by **ScottJackson** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:05 pm

What we have is a mix of people here. From people who've memorized the FSM to people who want bling to people who just bought the car from their neighbor but don't know what to think of it yet. There's bound to be disagreement in all of it. The problem is that people take it all too seriously. These are cars. They have wheels, engines, and they get us from place to place. I may poke fun at times in mods that aren't functional (like extreme camber to fit really wide tires... what's the point of a wide tire if only one edge of it touches the pavement?) but it's still just a little teasing. People need to realize that these cars are cheap cars now. Some parts are expensive and it's unfortunate when nice cars get trashed due to neglect, but they're just cars and it's not like it's a living thing being abused. We've got immature people and growly old farts. Not a good mix. I think we'd all get along much better if we could just let things slide. As for retardation, it's a real condition. So is homosexuality and race. Those shouldn't be offensive yet people still think just mentioning those things is offensive.

Post by **Woot!** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:22 pm

OK, I just got done reading all of your posts. If there were more mods like Wes and 96Qowner in the general chat section of this forum than I would enjoy being here alot more. Over there than anything goes, nobody stops before expressing their opinion.

Coming back to the Q45 section is like Heaven. I myself am a joker and have given offense unintentionally at times. When people bash me and my car than I think that it is their problem; bash away....see if I care, but not many others think the same way as me.

I personally like the G50 look better than the Y33 look but that doesn't mean that I hate the Y33 or see any need to bash it. There are 3 Y33's in this small town and I am the only one with a G50. The reason the other 3 people bought the Y33's is because the reliability ratings are way higher. They all bought them after seeing mine.

One big problem is when people return from the General Chat section to this forum and act in the same manner here as over there.

Post by **Q45denver** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:40 pm

If possible combine Infiniti Online Mechanic Forum with a Pre-1996 Q45 forum. The quality of recent postings and attitude of members does appear to have recently degraded and I think this would help. Plus I'm not too interested in the newer models.

Post by **szh** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Jesda wrote:If the Q45 section dies NICO is dead to me. This is the last bastion of intelligence, reason, and wisdom on the forum.

And I try so hard in the M35/M4 section to maintain that same level of sanity.

Just kidding, of course ...

Z

Post by **szh** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:10 pm

Woot! wrote:OK, I just got done reading all of your posts. If there were more mods like Wes and 96Qowner in the general chat section of this forum than I would enjoy being here alot more. Over there than anything goes, nobody stops before expressing their opinion.

Point well taken. Yes, General Chat is a bit wild, and some of us Mods do try to be balanced about how much "moderation" we do there (I try to spend a lot of time there to watch over things). We won't let obvious wrong-doings slide, but try to let things die out rather than be too heavy-handed from the start.

Woot! wrote:One big problem is when people return from the General Chat section to this forum and act in the same manner here as over there.

Something to avoid, yes.

Z

Post by **hal90000** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:24 am

My 2 Cents worth:

I read many user groups on the internet from political groups to scientific groups to environmental groups to inifiniti groups and there is always something in common. The anonymity of the internet unleashes behavior that civilized people rarely encounter. For some reason the filter that exists between thought and speech gets removed and you end up with blather, sometimes.

I've never really seen an effect way of dealing with it. In other groups the worst offenders are usually transitory and the cores users continue the core values of the group. It is hard to maintain a tent big enough to hold all points of view on any one subject. But from what I have seen the successful groups use a large does of patience, the ability to ignore as necessary, a sense of humor, judicial use of banning users and a motivation to see the group go forward.

Post by **superuber** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:06 am

elwesso wrote:Thanks for the comments guys, now I hope we can all practice what we preach..

I think another problem is we really don't know the guy we are blasting.I met Wes and Greg at Carlisle and found them to be two great guys!Like anything if we all knew each other our attitudes, I think would change.

Guys, it's a PRIDE thing! We don't like it when someone knows more than us. Some may not like this, but the fact is Tech REALLY knows his stuff.I believe if I met him I would feel the same about him as Wes. Except Wes could be my son! Thanks Wes for the concern. We will all try better. But our sin nature will probably win out!