UAW eyeballs Nissan

[Jesda]

You depict a world in which unions get to do whatever the heck they please and a poor old employer is simply in shackles

And you depict a labor environment that hasn't existed in three quarters of a century.




Unions -- that includes skilled trades, teachers, public employees, airline employees, grocers, and other specialties -- their value depends entirely on the particularly industry, the working conditions, and the competitive environment.



The UAW, however, has nothing to offer Nissan employees.



As for Opel, do some reading.

[IBCoupe]

Even forgetting for a second that the recession and unemployment are but blips in our history, I'm not sure that this (which I recognize is a commonly pushed meme) rings true:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/2 ... 51576.html

http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/14/smallbu ... /index.htm

http://www.jsonline.com/business/102677514.html

Many express disbelief that such a disconnect exists, Prising said. "Some go ballistic and say you are crazy when you say there's a skills shortage," he said.

Employers throughout Wisconsin and the nation's industrial heartland feel the gap acutely. In Manpower's 2010 poll, the U.S. jobs that were most in demand were skilled trades - electricians, welders, mechanics, boilermakers and other skills that often require a at least two years of technical college. In 2009, the No. 1 in-demand occupation in the U.S. was engineers, which fell to No. 8 this year.

"We continue to be very disappointed and frustrated at Bucyrus in trying to fill almost 150 highly paid vacancies with skilled labor," Sullivan said.

Milwaukee has launched several innovative apprenticeship training programs in recent years tied directly to the needs of Bucyrus and other local industry.

"Notwithstanding all our best efforts in attempting to fix the system with recent improvements in workforce development, the pipeline is broken," Sullivan said. "The fact that virtually all (kindergarten through 12th grade) education in southeastern Wisconsin is based solely on a college prep curriculum, with no exposure to industrial arts, means we are not feeding the market with the right skill sets."

Which is all a long way of saying: American manufacturing isn't dead, it's just different.

[Jesda]

Which is all a long way of saying: American manufacturing isn't dead, it's just different.

Absolutely. It requires more skill and training to acquire a high-earning job in US manufacturing than it did decades earlier. Labor supply shortages have resulted in six-figure incomes for some.

[IBCoupe]

And you depict a labor environment that hasn't existed in three quarters of a century.

In what way do I do this?

Unions -- that includes skilled trades, teachers, public employees, airline employees, grocers, and other specialties -- their value depends entirely on the particularly industry, the working conditions, and the competitive environment.

As does business success generally. I think maybe you're getting close to saying the same thing I just did.

The UAW, however, has nothing to offer Nissan employees.

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but I'm okay with letting them continue to make the pitch.

As for Opel, do some reading.

Or you could answer a simple question. "Exceedingly high" were your words, and if you don't know whether you were saying "exceedingly high in comparison to North American factories" or "exceedingly high in comparison to European factories" or "exceedingly high in comparison to factories worldwide," I think that tells me just about everything I'd need to know.

[IBCoupe]

Absolutely. It requires more skill and training to acquire a high-earning job in US manufacturing than it did decades earlier. Labor supply shortages have resulted in six-figure incomes for some.

Which is sort of the opposite of the legal field.

And it backs up completely what I wrote earlier to Bex.

[Jesda]

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but I'm okay with letting them continue to make the pitch.

Or you could answer a simple question. "Exceedingly high" were your words, and if you don't know whether you were saying "exceedingly high in comparison to North American factories" or "exceedingly high in comparison to European factories" or "exceedingly high in comparison to factories worldwide," I think that tells me just about everything I'd need to know.

Sorry, I was worried you were willing pulling Poormanq45's "well, Google it for me" nonsense.


German labor costs are 7th-highest in Europe.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 49003.html

High labor costs can be sustained for high-end goods like Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Porsches sold primarily to wealthy American and Chinese customers.

Volkswagen, for its lower-end cars, has localized its manufacturing, including the plant recently opened in Tennessee. VW has several high-end brands including Audi and Bentley that sustain high German labor costs, but GM's Opel brand, which for comparison purposes is somewhere on the level of Buick or Oldsmobile, doesn't have the large price tags to offset high production costs.

GM ideally would be able to downscale its German manufacturing operations while expanding in Eastern Europe where costs are significantly lower (VW, for example, owns the Czech brand Skoda). Unfortunately, if talks with labor fall through, Opel may be phased out entirely.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/ ... 5020120716


You may have noticed that GM has been pushing Chevrolet in the EU harder than before, most likely as a way to compensate for the decline of Opel. Chevrolet in Europe is primarily an extension of GMDAT in South Korea, though a handful of US-built cars (Volt, Camaro) are now sold in the EU under the Chevrolet badge as well.

[Jesda]

As for the UAW, they're obviously free to sell their services to whomever they want. Their failure to organize transplants has to do with their inability to offer workers and employers anything useful in a modern American manufacturing environment.

Maybe that could change later on, but for the past few decades it hasn't.

[Jesda]

And it backs up completely what I wrote earlier to Bex.

And I primarily agreed.

[IBCoupe]

Sorry, I was worried you were willing pulling Poormanq45's "well, Google it for me" nonsense.

Jesus, I have been gone too long. The memory of me is blurring with PMQ45.

German labor costs are 7th-highest in Europe.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/bus ... 49003.html

High labor costs can be sustained for high-end goods like Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Porsches sold primarily to wealthy American and Chinese customers.

Volkswagen, for its lower-end cars, has localized its manufacturing, including the plant recently opened in Tennessee. VW has several high-end brands including Audi and Bentley that sustain high German labor costs, but GM's Opel brand, which for comparison purposes is somewhere on the level of Buick or Oldsmobile, doesn't have the large price tags to offset high production costs.

GM ideally would be able to downscale its German manufacturing operations while expanding in Eastern Europe where costs are significantly lower (VW, for example, owns the Czech brand Skoda). Unfortunately, if talks with labor fall through, Opel may be phased out entirely.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/ ... 5020120716

Thanks for the clarification. Do GM's Opel plants produce cars for other markets, or just Europe? I would have assumed they had localized in the way that VW did, but that might not be a safe assumption.

If they're localized, and the labor costs are still relatively high for other nearby manufacturers, GM probably needs to grow some balls and beat back the local union. If they're not localized, then GM needs new management, because unless you're building a car that can afford to be over-priced (for example, any Ferrari or the new BRZ/FR-S), you need to be building cars for a price that makes sense to your anticipated customer.

Speaking of the BRZ/FR-S, if Nissan revived the Silvia here in the States in a Tennessee factory, you'd probably quickly see this "We're going to build all the cars in Japan and ship them to you" nonsense end.

You may have noticed that GM has been pushing Chevrolet in the EU harder than before, most likely as a way to compensate for the decline of Opel. Chevrolet in Europe is primarily an extension of GMDAT in South Korea, though a handful of US-built cars (Volt, Camaro) are now sold in the EU under the Chevrolet badge as well.

Do you know off the top of your head whether GMDAT services China, as well?

From what I've heard (but haven't looked too much into it), Buick is considered a luxury brand in China and is selling incredibly well (at least by GM standards). I wonder if they couldn't adapt whatever it is they're doing in China to markets elsewhere.

[Jesda]

I think Dan Akerson has steered GM into trouble. I am completely baffled by the $400m they invested in Peugeot which they've recently admitted was a huge mistake.



Buick's resurgence is arguably limited only to China. Its popularity there has to do with the brand's association with Chinese royalty more than half a century ago. Buick in China sells everything from the S-class-sized Park Avenue down to Korean-made hatchbacks.

In the US, the Regal is down something like 50% just a year after its introduction and the once-successful Enclave is withering away, not updated in five years. The Regal is a great car, designed and engineered by Opel, but the US version was somewhat neutered. Buick no longer offers a full size sedan (perhaps to avoid stepping on Cadillac's toes) and the Verano's middling fuel economy makes it difficult to justify the small size and somewhat high price. The Encore CUV might offer a boost.
I don't think GM has a clue what to do with Buick but they can't get rid of it because of its dominance in China. Like Mercury, Olds, Saturn, and Pontiac, it suffers from "in-between-branditis."


As for GMDAT, it technically isn't called that anymore but I've been typing it that way for years. And yes, they do export to China, the EU, North America, South America -- the whole world, actually. Cars from GM Korea that are sold in China are badged as Buicks. The ones sold in the US/Canada have been branded as Chevrolets and Suzukis. The ones shipped to Australia are called Holdens.

[IBCoupe]

I didn't realize Suzuki was a Chevy brand.

[Jesda]

They had a partnership that began in the mid 80s and slowly fizzled out after GM sold its shares. It was a tiny stake by 2008 (2009?), something like 2-4%.

The Chevy/Geo Metro was probably the most well-known North American product of the partnership.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I thought the metro was a corolla. The tracker was a suzuki.

[IBCoupe]

I thought the metro was a corolla.

It was; I had a '97 Corolla and I always saw them. The head and tail lights were different, but that's about it.

[Jesda]

Metro was a Suzuki Swift
Nova was a Toyota Corolla
Prizm was a Toyota Corolla
Tracker was a Suzuki Sidekick
Spectrum was an Isuzu I-Mark/Gemini

[Mr1der]

I thought the metro was a corolla. The tracker was a suzuki.

they were.

Living around the Smyrna plant and knowing people that work there. UAW won't ever get in. They've tried before and been voted down.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah Smyrna is on lock down, but the Canton plant is the one they are trying to get.

[AZhitman]

Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't, but I'm okay with letting them continue to make the pitch.

As am I - as long as it doesn't include any government concessions, additional legislative support, or outside influence.