:twitch: Is it safe to run the car without an intake filter? :twitch:

[Reno]

well i forgot to turn on my electric fan and my car coolant was bubling and it fell in the intake cone. so i had to park at a ford dealership (grass) and i had to remove the cone so it wont studder and lag. cause it melted the cone and made it all hard. so no air commin in. so i took the rubber from the back of the cone and forced it in my maf. fits snug, but i got an open pipe with the rubber holding the (AITS) air intake tempiture sensor. oh and its a short-ram. and happy thanksgiving all.

[Reno]

i was wondering if its like the itb?..

[naed240sx]

Yeah a lot of people with itbs or turbos do not use filters. I am sure that in the long run you will get more buildup in your engine, but it's not like you will destroy your engine if that happens. I am having trouble understanding your post, but it sounds like you only did it for several minutes? Even if you drove it all day like that, I would't worry too much about it, unless you drove through a locust filled desert.

[Reno]

okay on my way to a corp. office to pick up my shirt my car almost overheated, coolant was bubling and it had melted my cone solid... my car was running like crap so i took off the cone and ran the car filterless. and i have a mufflershop intake pipe like 9 inches long bent towards the passenger headlamp.

so its cool then?

[naed240sx]

Yeah just don't drive it for too long like that. It could gunk stuff up. Just buy a cheapy from autozone for the time being.

[TheOne]

yeah its not bad for like going to a shop and getting 1, but you would want to get 1 cause if some dust and what not clogs into the MAFS, that can get expensive.

[Bosrudorfer]

According to my official owners manual it states "Operating the engine with the air cleaner off can cause you or others to be burned. The air cleaner not only cleans the air, it stops flames if the engine backfires. If it isn't there, and the engine backfires, you could be burned. Do not drive with it off, and be careful working on the engine with the air cleaner off"

[Reno]

so... how do you explain itb's... and i dont got money 2 buy a new 1....

[naed240sx]

you can get one off ebay for like 20, or just pick up a cheapy from autozone like I said. 10 bucks. no biggie.

[Reno]

.....lol i dont even have that.......

[naed240sx]

jeez. Well in that case Im sorry. Try not to drive your car untill you have the money i guess. Im sure somebody could help you out.

[Reno]

man my first day of work tomorrow...... 40 min drive...

[Touchdown038]

How are you gonna drive back and forth to work with no money? No offense just curious...

I would try and find some way to come up with the money for a new filter. Seriously it's only 10 bucks.. sell something on ebay or something...

[TheOne]

or get a sock(s) and put it where the filter goes, that'll filter some...just don't get 1 thats dense enough to give less air, it should filter some, but in case of backfire it'll probably start burning(but if the car is running fine why would it backfire anyways)

i know of a friend that ran it like that for weeks in her eclipse and the engine still runs to this date.

"try it at your own risk, am not responsible for any damages",lol, also this would be temporary only, till you sell some cans and get $10 to buy a filter.

[Ichi-Go]

I have never seen a KA backfire... Plus if it does your head isnt going to be right there on the maf.

Also if you suck sand and dust into the engine it can score your cylinders. You wouldnt take 100 grit sand paper to your piston rings would you? If you cant afford the 20 bucks for a filter avoid dirt roads, road construction, following trucks, dusty areas, windy days, gravel, small children and any hazardous enviroments.

[Nissan_240sx]

dude, i had a similar problem lol, coolant on filter. easy temp. fix man, panty hose haha, no seriously

if your gonna go with socks, find the thinnest one you have, my friend used a sock once and the car idled like crap, wasnt getting enough air

goodluckMatt

[Nissan_240sx]

LOL try it at your own risk, i made sure that panty hose stayed put lol, yes this is a disclaimer

[Reno]

im doining it :P works so far

[Kenrik]

Bunch of idi0ts...

Socks... pantyhose...

Buy a godam filter it's $10!

[InsanityInc]

Running without a filter for a while will **** up your engine. Doesn't take much to get into the combustion chamber and score your cylinder walls.

[Chezedik]

It will not immediately f*ck up your engine, it's reason for being is to keep does out of the upper cylinder and to prevent wear. It does not matter if you get dust in the MAF because it runs a cleaning cycle. Although, it may keep a flame from travelling to the air box, that is INCREDIBLY unlikely in any event. How much vaporized fuel is in the intake, certainly not enough to burn all the way up with a flame of long enough duration to burn you. They have been known to travel back, and it has happened to me with starting fluid, but you won't be hurt. This is just Nissan being cautious. Also, if your engine backfires regularly enough that this is an issue, you have a serious cam timing or ignition timing problem. Probably, the most important reason in the immediate future to use one will be that Nissan MAFs are very sensitive to the unprotected airflow, and it may send a reading to the ECU to add fuel for air that isn't coming. And just like an atmospheric blow-off in a turbo setup, the car will stumble and can die. But nothing catastrophic.Now, why do you not want to run one? Everyone is right, they are too cheap to take the chance. Ditch the craptastic foam cone and get a K&N. Tried and True. Nuff Said.

[TEKs240sx]

You all thought about grit (which the filter does not keep out!) How about a leaf! or tissue. What if you suck the sock through the throttle body? Do you really want to clean melted nylon out of your head or off the valave??? If you don't believe me about the grit, take an old air cleaner (filter) and throw dust, sand, and ash in it. Shake it around and see how much actually makes it through. Then think about how much more suction your engine has. If an air cleaner filtered all dust and all grit the engine would stall from lack of air. The filter is to limit the big stuff, most of the smaller debris is burned off atmospherically when it hits the throttle body.

[Reno]

hmmm

[guyaverage]

K&N's are tried and true alright, tried and true to not be even close to being the best filter available, claiming wildly optimistic HP gains, not to mention the rediculous price.

A cheap Purolator paper filter, hell even a Fram is worth the money compared to running without anything, which in my opinion is about as lazy as it gets. How are you affording $2.50/gallon gas when you cant afford a cheap replacement filter?

The throttle body is barely hot enough to melt butter. I dont know some of you guys get this crap. The throttle body is intentially heated to prevent ICE due to the dramatic drop in temp as the air pressure drops past the butterfly. It sure as hell isnt going to vaporize dust and grit.

Stop the nonsense and get a filter.

[Reno]

did i

K&N's are tried and true alright, tried and true to not be even close to being the best filter available, claiming wildly optimistic HP gains, not to mention the rediculous price.

A cheap Purolator paper filter, hell even a Fram is worth the money compared to running without anything, which in my opinion is about as lazy as it gets. How are you affording $2.50/gallon gas when you cant afford a cheap replacement filter?

The throttle body is barely hot enough to melt butter. I dont know some of you guys get this crap. The throttle body is intentially heated to prevent ICE due to the dramatic drop in temp as the air pressure drops past the butterfly. It sure as hell isnt going to vaporize dust and grit.

Stop the nonsense and get a filter.

did i say throttle body? NO i said coolant.. coolant man.. i usualy jump from job to job. im steady now. 18$ an hour. now i can sell my 240 and buy a 95+

[InsanityInc]

You all thought about grit (which the filter does not keep out!) How about a leaf! or tissue. What if you suck the sock through the throttle body? Do you really want to clean melted nylon out of your head or off the valave??? If you don't believe me about the grit, take an old air cleaner (filter) and throw dust, sand, and ash in it. Shake it around and see how much actually makes it through. Then think about how much more suction your engine has. If an air cleaner filtered all dust and all grit the engine would stall from lack of air. The filter is to limit the big stuff, most of the smaller debris is burned off atmospherically when it hits the throttle body.

If that were true, all filters would just be simple mesh screens. If your filter is letting visible dirt through, the only thing that proves is that you need to switch filter brands.

Quote »The throttle body is barely hot enough to melt butter. I dont know some of you guys get this crap. The throttle body is intentially heated to prevent ICE due to the dramatic drop in temp as the air pressure drops past the butterfly. It sure as hell isnt going to vaporize dust and grit.[/quote]No. Go start your car and run it for an hour, pop your hood and touch the throttle body. The whole intake tract is extremely hot for no other reason than being attached to the engine and being metal. Also, air temperature INCREASES as speed increases, which is why the intake charge is so hot (300+ degrees). The TB has coolant flowing through it so it doesn't freeze shut in cold climates while parked.

Also, don't actually touch your throttle body after your car has been running that long, because you will get quite literally burned.

[Reno]

the TB or intake mani gets hot because of the coolant running through it, but i plugged mine up so it doesnt get hot at all.

[InsanityInc]

the TB or intake mani gets hot because of the coolant running through it, but i plugged mine up so it doesnt get hot at all.

Then go touch it. Hell, just put your hand by it.

It's metal. it's connected to your intake manifold, which is also metal, which is connected to your engine. Even if he was right about the temperature drop (which he isn't), the TB would become extremely hot simply because metal is a good conductor.

[Reno]

i actually put my face on it all the time...................................... dont ask why please...............

[guyaverage]

Also, air temperature INCREASES as speed increases, which is why the intake charge is so hot (300+ degrees). The TB has coolant flowing through it so it doesn't freeze shut in cold climates while parked.

The rest of your post was so good, but things got screwed up right about here. Your intake air is never that hot, except in a non-intercooled turbocharged application. But even then the turbocharged air is that hot because it is COMPRESSED, NOT because of its velocity. You can increase air velocity by heating it (i.e, a jet engine afterburner), but you will not heat air by increasing its velocity unless you COMPRESS it!

As the air flows through the TB (past the butterfly) the pressure decreases dramatically. As pressure decreases, SO DOES TEMPERATURE. Any humidity in the intake air will freeze on contact, potentially freezing the butterfly in position (very dangerous) and choking the engine in the process (gradual drop in power). It doesnt need to be very cold out for this to happen.

If temperature increased with velocity, then the air coming out of the tire pump at the local gas station would be super hot as it comes out. But even in hot weather, that air will come out cool because it is going from a high pressure environment (the compressor tank) to an area of lower pressure (outside air). This is exactly the principle that makes an air conditioner work.

Yes, the thottle body will be hot after a while, for both reasons (its heated with coolant, AND its attached to a hot engine) and yes you will melt butter (that wasnt meant to be taken literally). I was merely trying to explain that not only does the air temperature drop as it goes through the thottle body, but it sure as hell does not vaporize dirt in the process, so you NEED a filter!

Edited to add:

Check out http://www.aircav.com/histturb.html. Scroll down to the "Pressure and Velocity" paragraph, 2nd from the bottom.


Modified by guyaverage at 3:30 AM 11/29/2005