Touch Test - Royal Purple Synthetic Versus Mobil 1 Synthetic

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

would that be something good for my Jeep ... its an 89 with 105k miles?

DJ

[smockers83]

I think Smockers had a comment on RP on some thread as well. http://forums.g37driver.com/zerothread/353047

Not only did I post that info, I did a write up long before that I think on M1 and true synthetics like RP. The search server is down at the moment, I'll try and find it later. However, most of the information then came from here:

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

Mineral or synthetic?

Mineral oils are based on oil that comes from dear old Mother Earth which has been refined. Synthetic oils are entirely concocted by chemists wearing white lab coats in oil company laboratories. For more info, see the section on synthetics further down the page. The only other type is semi-synthetic, sometimes called premium, which is a blend of the two. It is safe to mix the different types, but it's wiser to switch completely to a new type rather than mixing.

SyntheticsDespite their name, most synthetic derived motor oils (ie Mobil 1, Castrol Formula RS etc ) are actually derived from mineral oils - they are mostly Polyalphaolifins and these come from the purest part of the mineral oil refraction process, the gas. PAO oils will mix with normal mineral oils which means Joe public can add synthetic to his mineral, or mineral to his synthetic without his car engine seizing up (although I've heard Mobil 1 is actually made by reformulating ethanol).The most stable bases are polyol-ester (not polyester, you fool). When I say 'stable' I mean 'less likely to react adversely with other compounds.' Synthetic oil bases tend not to contain reactive carbon atoms for this reason. Reactive carbon has a tendency to combine with oxygen creating an acid. As you can imagine, in an oil, this would be A Bad Thing. So think of synthetic oils as custom-built oils. They're designed to do the job efficiently but without any of the excess baggage that can accompany mineral based oils.

Pure syntheticsPure synthetic oils (polyalkyleneglycol) are the types used almost exclusively within the industrial sector in polyglycol gearbox oils for heavily loaded gearboxes. These are typically concocted by intelligent blokes in white lab coats. These chaps break apart the molecules that make up a variety of substances, like vegetable and animal oils, and then recombine the individual atoms that make up those molecules to build new, synthetic molecules. This process allows the chemists to actually "fine tune" the molecules as they build them. Clever stuff. But Polyglycols don't mix with normal mineral oils.

[BigMACKenzie]

I def used RP for my first oil change for teh vert, but it's $7.25 a quart retail in DC. I need to find out how to buy in bulk. I might be crazy, but I heard you are not supposed to use RP for an extended period of time/miles (over 3k) Did mom put acid in my orange juice again or amirite?

[smockers83]

I def used RP for my first oil change for teh vert, but it's $7.25 a quart retail in DC. I need to find out how to buy in bulk. I might be crazy, but I heard you are not supposed to use RP for an extended period of time/miles (over 3k) Did mom put acid in my orange juice again or amirite?

Depends on the situation. If your engine is still under warranty, you'll want to stick to the factory service schedule to keep it under warranty. If its not under warranty and you have a dirty engine from other oils, you should change it every 3000-5000 miles until the oiling system is clean. It also depends on how hard you drive and driving conditions. Most people could extend their change intervals with RP. RP itself says, on a clean engine, one could change their oil once a year or every 12,000 miles, but that's all depending on how you drive.

[zozoka1212]

It also depends from so many other things. Outside temperature, driving habits, how well you do your car maint. Just to list a few. For example if you drive your car hard(track days 1-2 a week) you might want to change your oil more often. Got FI, etc.

zozo

[DevonD]

Someone was talking about how RP somewhat bonds to the metal surfaces in your engine. Will that not start creating sludge build up? Or is sludge build up from something else?

[Jacko3]

Except God comes form heaven, knocks on my door, and tells me its okay to go 5 000 miles, I will always change my oil every 3,000 miles, RP or not. So, that lets me drive my car as hard as i want since I know the oil is going out at 3,000 miles---fresh high performance oil, fresh/clean engine, all the time.

[smockers83]

Someone was talking about how RP somewhat bonds to the metal surfaces in your engine. Will that not start creating sludge build up? Or is sludge build up from something else?

Yes, RP has a substance in the oil that will bond to metal surfaces. This bond that occurs is a proprietary substance that aids in the lubrication process. Its good for cold starts when oil isn't flowing everywhere and it also significantly reduces friction. It is different from sludge buildup.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

Great topic guys..

Jacko change's oil at 3k miles

just as telcom uses only regular 87 gas

DJ

[Sentientbydesign]

would that be something good for my Jeep ... its an 89 with 105k miles?

DJ

I would try it. Do the 20% mix first, then you can try it a little higher if you want. I used it with the mobil Clean 5000 and Clean 7500. I wouldn't waste the money trying to mix it with any of the high end synthetics though.

I def used RP for my first oil change for teh vert, but it's $7.25 a quart retail in DC. I need to find out how to buy in bulk. I might be crazy, but I heard you are not supposed to use RP for an extended period of time/miles (over 3k) Did mom put acid in my orange juice again or amirite?

Here's some info which supports your non-acid-trip information. It might be biased since Amsoil did the testing, but it's still good info.

As you may know, Royal Purple is well known in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something AMSOIL, Inc. chooses not to use in their oil formulation. One of Amsoil's big selling points is extended drain intervals, such as our 25,000 mile and 35,000 mile oil change intervals. Some additive chemicals such as Moly may cause adverse conditions when used for long periods.

Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most oil producers. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) in their oil formulations at these higher levels.

Moly is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. Over time this may actually clog or partially clog oil filters or oil lines and the remainder normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on Royal Purple involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate. This compares to the AMSOIL TRO with only a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the AMSOIL TRO left a .41mm scar and the Royal Purple oil left a .66mm scar. The lower the scar damage number the better! There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures.

Note: This information was provided by AMSOIL, Inc. Tech Department. An independent lab tested the Royal Purple 20W-50 racing oil against the AMSOIL 20W-50 racing oil. The results are posted above. Test results found Moly in the Royal Purple oil sample.

To elaborate on Smocker's information. Many synthetics use mineral base stocks an attempt to break the molecules down through numerous methods until they have smaller "uniform" molecules which they can reconstruct. This is analogous to making cake batter and trying to extract the eggs (not the greatest analogy, but it makes the point).

The issue in doing this is that, you don't have a person splitting each and every molecule. You have a process breaking down huge vats of base stock. Another issue is that the base stock oil is not all comprised of the same molecules. Variations will occur and those molecules will break down differently when subjected to the same processes. What you end up with is inconsistencies. These inconsistencies are dealt with by using additives.

These additives only provide temporary fixes because sooner or later, they won't be able to keep the oil stable and it will break down.

Pure Synthetics are chemically engineered in a more consistent manner.

Something I just read that's interesting. Wikipedia cites that API Group III Oils (Hydrocracked or Hydroisomerized-The ones that are processed to death) are only allowed to be sold as "Synthetics" in the US. Has anybody else found this information eleswhere?

Jacko,

Why don't you just spend the $20-$40 on an oil analysis at the end of 3k miles to see how the oil is. Then you won't have to wait for God to come tap on your shoulder and tell you you're wasting oil.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

Thanks for the good info SBD... You know what SBD stands for lol Silent But deadly lol

[Sentientbydesign]

Thanks for the good info SBD... You know what SBD stands for lol Silent But deadly lol

Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled with the accronym at first. I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to bring it up.

But on a semi-serious note. When the hell am I silent?

[Mark Linkous]

Hello,Have you guys checked out Bob is the Oil Guy? (BITOG) Really informative site and forum. I am currently using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my M. I had previously been using 0W-30 Mobil 1 which is the factory recommended weight. From what I have read on that forum and a few of the Q folks, 0W-40 is significantly better than most of the other weights. This is the only Mobil 1 which meets the requirements for Porsche, MB, AMG, etc...

This has also been proven with UOA's (used oil analysis) reports as well compared to the other Mobil 1 formulas. RP is really nice stuff as well. Have heard good things about Amsoil as well. Though I have no direct experience with either.Cheers,ML

[Jacko3]

Nate:

Thats one mor ehting I really have to do----dyno my car and do an oil test with RP.

[Sentientbydesign]

Nate:

Thats one mor ehting I really have to do----dyno my car and do an oil test with RP.

I think I'm going to re-dyno my G. I loved, but didn't believe the last numbers.

It would be interesting to see how a different dyno in a different city compares.

[Jacko3]

I would agree.

[G37 Man]

guys please keep us informed as to your findings on RP,before I switch overI would like to hear what the results are from G owners.

I was ready to buy the XPR but at $14 a qt. I will wait.