Torque Monster?????

[240crawler]

This may sound stupid, but is the ka24de really a torque monster? My 240 is the first N/A 4 cyl that I have really driven. I have had a turbo Integra that I bought already boosted, and I know that the high strung motor was not a good reflection of I4 power. My friend drove me home from the club last night, and was impressed with the power of my car. He never revved past 3500, and wanted to know if it was inline or v6. I told him it was a 2.4 I4, and he opened the hood in disbelief. He said that for a 4 cyl, it had alot of torque. Can you tell me if the 240 is really that much stouter bottom end than other 4's. I am curious, because I am disappointed in the power output of my car. He offered to let me drive his corolla when I sobered up to compare. He said that his car is dead below 5000rpm. I would like more top end, but I am afraid to intake and exhaust because my Honda friends(not many) say it will kill all bottom end. Help!!!

[Crazyracer77]

i got a 98 civic ex, its lower and has wheels, but the motor is stock, i can beat my friends 240 from stop light to stop light, on the hwy he can beat me, the 240 is faster because of how much torque it has, hondas dont seem to pull to hard on the hwy because the lack of torque, well the single cams dont have much torque at all, i just bought a 240 and plan to turbo it here soon

[All_Motor_KA]

Intake and exhaust is ALWAYS a good thing no matter what. The KA is one of the few inline four cylinder non turbo motors to make more torque then horsepower. Intake, header and full exhaust and you will experience how the KA was meant to be. And the KA is one of the few engines that make horsepower off a 3'' exhaust when non turbo. I believe it is one of the best 4 cylinders ever made.

[InsanityInc]

This may sound stupid, but is the ka24de really a torque monster? My 240 is the first N/A 4 cyl that I have really driven. I have had a turbo Integra that I bought already boosted, and I know that the high strung motor was not a good reflection of I4 power. My friend drove me home from the club last night, and was impressed with the power of my car. He never revved past 3500, and wanted to know if it was inline or v6. I told him it was a 2.4 I4, and he opened the hood in disbelief. He said that for a 4 cyl, it had alot of torque. Can you tell me if the 240 is really that much stouter bottom end than other 4's. I am curious, because I am disappointed in the power output of my car. He offered to let me drive his corolla when I sobered up to compare. He said that his car is dead below 5000rpm. I would like more top end, but I am afraid to intake and exhaust because my Honda friends(not many) say it will kill all bottom end. Help!!!

Well, your honda friends know roughly d!ck about cars (unsurprisingly so...). I've never seen an intake or exhaust system reduce torque compared to stock by any meaningful amount. Generally there are gains everywhere. Torque-wise, yes it does have a lot compared to other I4s. An integra LS for example, has about 110 ft-lbs of torque. The KA24DE has 160ft-lbs of torque. This is largely due to the larger displacement, but also due to the longer stroke and long intake runners (and secondary butterflies, if you have an S13).

[TheOne]

i have to say.......yes the ka is sorta a torque monster for a 4 cylinder, i could be in 5th gear at ~70mph, press the accel 3/4 throttle and it'll go up the mph quite faster than other cars.(unlike the automatic mitsu eclipse RS that you'd have to wait a long time to get up the rpms in first gear)

[s1ndicate]

TheOne, the quotes in your sig are awesome.

[InsanityInc]

TheOne, the quotes in your sig are awesome.

The second one is also blatantly wrong.

The first is also fairly wrong. A dodge viper isn't going to beat a moden F1 car.

[TheExaltedS14K]

Intake and exhaust is ALWAYS a good thing no matter what. The KA is one of the few inline four cylinder non turbo motors to make more torque then horsepower. Intake, header and full exhaust and you will experience how the KA was meant to be. And the KA is one of the few engines that make horsepower off a 3'' exhaust when non turbo. I believe it is one of the best 4 cylinders ever made.

Is that true, i know someone who said he could hook it up with a full exhaust system, but the only thing was it would be flowmaster. Was deciding on 2.5 but since you said 3" gains on n/a, im just curious if this is true...

[InsanityInc]

Is that true, i know someone who said he could hook it up with a full exhaust system, but the only thing was it would be flowmaster. Was deciding on 2.5 but since you said 3" gains on n/a, im just curious if this is true...

3" gains quite a lot on NA actually. THere's 2 legit dynos floating around of a 13 and 15whp gain from just a 3" exhaust.

[D-UNIT]

The first is also fairly wrong. A dodge viper isn't going to beat a moden F1 car.

What about a Dodge Viper that weighed 1400 lbs.

[Zydeco]

Sorry...An F1 car would still smoke it, with out a problem.

[D-UNIT]

I guess.....

[TheOne]

actually, if the viper weighted the same as the F1, the viper would be able to win from a stand to maybe 60mph.(then the F1 would pass it cause of its higher rpm and better gear ratios, believe an F1 does more than 60mph in first gear)

[Florida240sx]

I don't see how the stock honda is beating a 240 stop light to stop light....Must be the driver.I've never lost to a honda and I'm pure stock.My buddy had a handa ex dropped with intake exhaust and chip and still couldn't touch me.Stock 240's are 15.5-16 depending on location,driver, and motor.Stock civics run 16.7

[All_Motor_KA]

The second one is also blatantly wrong.

The first is also fairly wrong. A dodge viper isn't going to beat a moden F1 car.

A modern F1 car is a pure race car designed for one thing, and one thing only, raceing. You can not compare it to a a car that was designed to perform well on the street. Besides, horsepower equals torque multiplied by RPM devided by 5252. So torque really does win races .

[InsanityInc]

A modern F1 car is a pure race car designed for one thing, and one thing only, raceing. You can not compare it to a a car that was designed to perform well on the street. Besides, horsepower equals torque multiplied by RPM devided by 5252. So torque really does win races .

Hm, so you mean car design wins races, not torque? Why, that's preposterous and certainly Mr. Shelby would disagree with you.

Also, considering he said "horsepower sells cars", I'm quite sure he wasn't referring to the horsepower produced by the application of torque over time.

[BaliLover]

I had an H22 (rated at 210hp by Honda) with automatic trans and factory LSD swapped into a 4 door honda accord. Vtec x-over was set at 4800 RPMS. I often ran a friend that had a 5 speed Ka24de with intake/exhaust. From a dead stop the KA would pull on me until I hit vtec, at which point I would pass and just keep putting on distance.

This makes me wonder how a civic EX (rated at what, 110 hp?) is taking a 240 from stoplight to stoplight since it would take a motor rated at 90hp more through most of 1st gear. That is unless the 240 is running the SOHC with no mods and the civic is modded.

[Crazyracer77]

my civic is stock, he has a 90 240 thats just has a muffler, i have beat him before stop light to stop light, i raced this other 240 about amonth ago and beat it from a dead stop aswell, but like on a 65 roll he pulls on me, but im sellin the civic now cause i just bought a 240

[InsanityInc]

actually, if the viper weighted the same as the F1, the viper would be able to win from a stand to maybe 60mph.(then the F1 would pass it cause of its higher rpm and better gear ratios, believe an F1 does more than 60mph in first gear)

It would win before that. F1 cars have 300-400 horsepower on a viper. Also, my money would be on the F1 car to 60, simply because the F1 driver probably wouldn't need to shift out of first gear to get to 60.

[D-UNIT]

I beg to differ. A Viper gts ( the old one) can hit 62mph in first gear. I know. I actually thought the car was weak because first gear took so long. Until I looked how fast I was going. You can yank 2nd all the way to 95 mph. 3rd goes to one 135!! I don't know how fast it can go in fourth because I only hit 161 mph @ 6000 rpm! Redline is 6500 rpm. Still with 5th and 6th gear in waiting. And that was the old 460hp one. By the way it does a 12.5 1/4 mile an weighs 3420 lbs.

So now your telling me that a SRT-10 with 500hp and 525ft - lbs of torque , that is put on an almost 2000lb. diet will get smoked by an F1. Maybe... but bear in mind that F1 car only hit about mid 9 sec quarters. There are HONDAS that can smoke that.

[raging panda]

Yes, the srt10 will always lose to an F1 car. Except in functionality, try starting an F1 car on your own, see how much fun that is. Or driving in traffic. Performance wise, the viper will always lose, weighs too much, too little power, weaksauce brakes (all in comparison to an F1 car). Those Hondas that run 9s or less, even worse. It might beat it in a drag, but add a chicane at the end of that straight, the honda will plow right through it, or if it stopped accelerating half way down track, it probably still wouldn't be able to take the chican with any kind of speed. F1 is the ultimate race car, thats just how it is. You guys are comparing apples to ballpoint pens to elephants.

Anyways, It is true that some hondas will lose some hp when you change out the intake, i think the integra type R loses power when aftermarket intakes are used, but I dont think anything from nissan will ever see that kind of problem. Intake and a 3" exhaust will add some fun with no loss in power at all. Go nuts. Kinda funny what you said about the corolla dying under 5K rpm, because thats when your car is going to start dying. Wanna fix that, get cams.

[InsanityInc]

Considering we were talking about the phrase "Torque wins races", practicality is completely irrelevant. Also, while an F1 might "only" run a 9s quarter mile, compare its 0-200 times to those hondas. Oh, wait, those hondas can't GET to 200mph, my bad. If you geared the F1 car for a quarter mile then it would run it faster. Also, modern F1 cars have to be naturally aspirated. The turbo ones were far, far faster (so fast they banned turbos because too many drivers were dying). The fastest all motor honda drag car is 11s, if I recall.

[bendychicken]

Well said Insanity.

[D-UNIT]

The turbo ones were far, far faster (so fast they banned turbos because too many drivers were dying). The fastest all motor honda drag car is 11s, if I recall.

You're right , but you really can't compare a $5000 engine to a $200,000 engine. Anyway an F1 is tuned for optimal everything so if you changed the gearing it probably run slower. Also the new F1 engines are getting so much more efficient that they are almost just as fast if not faster than the old turbo cars.

I also take back what I said about the Viper. Even a 1000lb viper would get smoked by an F1. F1 is the ultimate racecar. 780(avg) hp and only 240 tq. would own all , plus it can weigh as little as 1322 lbs including driver!!. Did you know that an F1 can exceed over 5G's of lateral aceleration. Amazing.

Horsepower owns Torque

[HolyShiznit]

Ok you guys should start a different thread about Viper vs F1 car.....as for the topic AT HAND:

Don't listen to any of your friends, my suggestion, don't bother building the KA N/A unless you are strapped on funds. Buy a 3'' exhaust and then go turbo and never ever regret it. Don't bother tryign to keep up with the Honda guys, just turbo your KA (assuming its in good condition) and obliterate them.

And for the guy that said he beat a 240 with his stock Civic, sounds like you beat a SOHC/tired/old/bad driver. Try a DOHC that doesn't have a billion miles on it with a decent driver. My 240 bone stock down to the tires ran a 15.3 @ 91.2 which is currently faster than ANY civic EX stock has ever run.

[All_Motor_KA]

Had to be a SOHC. No twin cam will ever lose to a stock civic EX. EVER. Si's need intake and exhaust to keep up.

[InsanityInc]

You're right , but you really can't compare a $5000 engine to a $200,000 engine. Anyway an F1 is tuned for optimal everything so if you changed the gearing it probably run slower. Also the new F1 engines are getting so much more efficient that they are almost just as fast if not faster than the old turbo cars.

The old turbo cars were making well over 1000 horsepower. Even the best NA engines in F1 are still a few hundred behind. Also, changing the gearing would make it run faster in the quarter mile as you could design the gearing to be as short as possible to allow it to just reach it's trap speed at redline in top gear. F1 cars have to be geared fairly wide to reach speeds of 200+, whereas they could be geared shorter if they were only being run for a 1/4 mile, where their trap speed probably wouldn't exceed 150.

And yeah, the 5Gs is pretty nuts, and apparently they could build the cars to handle more Gs, but the drivers wouldn't be able to stay concious.

Quote »Don't bother tryign to keep up with the Honda guys, just turbo your KA (assuming its in good condition) and obliterate them.[/quote]So sorry anjin-san, but the whole "NA is for hondas olol" is a stupid myth. In a built engine, VTEC means absolutely d!ck, because I can run a cam just as wild as your top VTEC cam in my fixed cam engine, I'll just have to move my idle up. VTEC allows a crazy cam to be used while maintaining emissions, daily drivability and fuel economy, none of which are particularly relevant in a race.

[HolyShiznit]

^^^ You quoted me but I think you went off on a random tangent, I was just telling him to just turbo his KA and he will have an insanely powerful engine at his disposal, I never once got into a discussion about fuel economy and cams....

Besides if you are worried about fuel economy buy a goddamn Geo. REAL power = lots of fuel

[Fenvy]

torque monster? according to my butt dyno, it sucks

[InsanityInc]

torque monster? according to my butt dyno, it sucks

It is, relatively speaking. It's obviously not a 427.