Torque Monster?????

[Dattebayo]

Said honda could beat the DOHC 240 judging on the age of the motor. Quite a few S13's are in interesting repair around here...

I know my old motor was pretty well worn out even when I had it at 75K.

[HolyShiznit]

^^^ I guess. Maybe my motor was different as well as all my other friends because all of ours had perfect compression on our S13's.

[kapower06]

This is crazyracer77's friend. My compression is 170 across all cylinders... Its a 89 sohc... That along with 190k mi with bald tires and an open diff. = crappy start. thats why i can beat him from a roll and on the highway. any ways who cares im about 99.9% complete with my turbo kit.

[FliMSiCaL]

i've never lost to any civic in my 89 SOHC. Not to mention several versions of the ford 4.6 liter (could have been luck). I raced a gutted/modded n/a crx and went even with him till about 105, when i let off. My car is almost all stock with exception of intake and some emissions crap taken off. had about 90k miles on motor at the time. Why is everyone doggin the sohc? to me, it seems a bit faster in stock form....but thats just a butt dyno.

[Veriest1]

Not everyone is "doggin" the SOHC. They respond well to boost just like the DE. The only reason everyone seems to be DE crazy is because that's what most people have.

Beating the Ford 4.6 with a stock sock? You're talking about the Mustangs 4.6 V8 right? Sounds like either pure luck or a bad driver to me.

P.S. I've always wanted to call the SOHC a sock so I did and it feels good.

[kapower06]

Im not dogging the SOHC at all. I actually like it more then the DOHC. As a matter of fact im building up what I hope to be a very bad*** single cam. I already have ported & polished head. aftermarket valves, 3-angle valve job. Along with the GB4 cam and solid lifters. I also have a complete turbo kit to go with it.

[jmhalder]

4.6 v8-mustangs? did you let him know you were racing, i LOVE my 240, but lets be reasonable. Mustangs are (fairly) fast, although most of the time their owners are meatheads. the KA IS a faily torquey engine considering its a I4. i have a honda buddy with a sohc d16 with a 6lb flywheel, delta cam, 2.5" exhaust and boosting 6-7psi... will mop my 95 240 all over, and im not ashamed to say it. its game over for him when i go ka-t

[Kansei240sx]

Im not bull****ting when i say this, but i kinda have to agree on that 4.6 liter or is the 4.7 in the 97 stang?

It was an automatic with intake and flow masters and off the line it took me but i came up and whomped it.

As far as civics go, those cars are turds..... Stock for stock an EX shouldnt be able to beat either SOHC or DOHC. nor any other civic except possibly an SI.
Modified by Kansei240sx at 3:31 PM 7/13/2005

[Veriest1]

I wasn't aware of a 4.7 ever coming in the Mustang.

Stock for stock a 240sx shouldn't be able to beat a V8 Mustang. Especially once they're off the line. KA powered 240's are turds at high rpm....

[All_Motor_KA]

I'm sorry, no stock 240 made in america will keep up with a 4.6 mustang.

[Florida240sx]

I smoke them all the time. the 4.6's...But if there is any mods to them then just piss him off.Lot of people aorund here can't drive. When my friend stole my car he raced a a yellow gt and smoked him.from stop and a roll.My 240 is faster thna my friends....it has stock cams and it's not even the "hot cams"No idea my car is a freak.Wish I could of hit dyno before boosting tonight

[4gotn1]

i have raped plenty of cars when stock. and i do have a sohc, which is faaar from stock now. the sohc performs just as well as the dohc. infact it seems to respond better to most mods.

[InsanityInc]

i have raped plenty of cars when stock. and i do have a sohc, which is faaar from stock now. the sohc performs just as well as the dohc. infact it seems to respond better to most mods.

Uhm. No.

The DOHC in stock form has 15 more hp and torque. Not to mention it responds better to any mods I've ever seen a dyno for.

[Kansei240sx]

an automatic 97 mustang is a freaking turd and its a fat whale. it only has 210 hp, and 290 tq. Off the line i got taken, but picked up real quick after where i got taken. Autostang's in that year are just pieces of ****.

[SidewaysAndHighways]

Ok, everyone is saying that you need a 3" exhaust and an intake for the must have upgrades. I am putting a straght through 2.5" exhaust from the headers back on my SOHC in a few days. Is that half inch critical? On the intake side of the issue, I read once that new intakes on KA24E or DE can almost lower the horsepower because of all the heat. What intake would anyone recommend? I am not putting on headers on the KA24E because for one, it is a KA24E with 87000 miles on it and for two, I plan to swap the KA for the SR because I have the SOHC version.

[4gotn1]

Uhm. No.

The DOHC in stock form has 15 more hp and torque. Not to mention it responds better to any mods I've ever seen a dyno for.

yup truth. no lie. it really does. ive gotten huge gains out of my sohc as compaired to a few friends dohcs. part for part i am much faster.

oh and 15hp more 2ftlbs more. to correct ya there.

[InsanityInc]

yup truth. no lie. it really does. ive gotten huge gains out of my sohc as compaired to a few friends dohcs. part for part i am much faster.

oh and 15hp more 2ftlbs more. to correct ya there.

Do you have dyno proof? Because everything I've seen favors the DOHC by far. 13+ whp from a 3" exhaust for example. If you're just using a butt dyno or racing, for all you know they could have a busted knock sensor or something that's making them artificially slower. The KA24DE is a FAR superior engine, this isn't even debatable.

[FliMSiCaL]

heh, there have been WAY too many assumptions made from my post. First off, about the 4.6, i distinctly said it could have been luck. It could have been luck, it could have been bad driver, all i know is he and i both ran...his engine wouldn't be screaming to the redline if he wasn't running, right? and i came out ahead. I have run 4.6's with light tuning and gotten smoked. About 240's, I never said which motor performed better WITH MODS, i said that having driven all 3 forms of STOCK 240sx available in the country, that the sohc felt a bit faster. Key word here is FELT, it is not supposed to mean i took them all to a dyno, etc... Please do not make assumptions based off my post, i put those words on there because thats what i wanted to say, there is no reading between the lines. If i wanted to say something else, i would type it and put it on here. I'm not tryin to flame anyone, or say anyone's opinions are wrong. I'm just trying to correct an apparent misunderstanding of what i posted earlier.

[4gotn1]

Do you have dyno proof? Because everything I've seen favors the DOHC by far. 13+ whp from a 3" exhaust for example. If you're just using a butt dyno or racing, for all you know they could have a busted knock sensor or something that's making them artificially slower. The KA24DE is a FAR superior engine, this isn't even debatable.

1. FSM. look it up. there 15hp apart, but only 2ftlbs difference.yes a different style head can cause the slight increase in hp and torque. the bottom end is the same except for pistons. 2. the sohc has far better valvetrain stock. it can handle much more aggressive cams on stock springs and lifters. not to mention that the stock cam dosent even drop off till 6500 in the e's where as the de's drop shortly after 5500. 3. Do you ever see a rebello built KA24DE? nope dont think so. why? because the E is a much better motor for racing. easier to modify, easier to work on.and this actuall is debateable. the ka24e is a damn good motor. after all it did evlove into the de. if it wasnt for the e then there would be no de. i love both motors. but i perfer the ka24e much more than the de. i also feel there are alot of people on here who feel that the e is just as good as the dohc. if not better for being more responcive mod for mod.

[raging panda]

The reason there arent any racing build DE engines is because of a rule book. There was some rule when the 240 started competing that restricted it to a sohc. That is why even the S14 used them in road racing in the US.

Why would anyone give up 1 valve per cylinder? The engine is an air pump, you need more air in and out to make more power. Giving up that 1 valve makes less power than a dohc would with the same research.

The sohc might be easier to work on, but it doesnt make a better racing engine. Don't get it wrong, there would have been a dohc that made more power than the sohc if the rules allowed it.

[InsanityInc]

And NISMO, you know, the motorsports division of the people who MAKE the damn engine, use a KA24DE for their race frontier, and it has 300hp NA.

Also the E in stock form has 15 less horsepower and 8 less ft lbs.

And finally, the SOHC valvetrain is not better. By saying this you have proven you know diddly about valvetrains. For one, it only has 3 valves per cylinder, making it obviously worse. For another, the KA24DE has a cam-on-bucket design, while the 3-valve SOHC is forced to use lifters, making the valvetrain FAAAAR less durable. And the power drops off worse in an SOHC KA. Do you even know what a dyno graph is? Go look some up. Or hell, just use your FSM to look at the power peaks for both engines, and realize that the SOHC is actually even lower than the DOHC.

Go learn something about engines before you try to argue about them, 4gotn1.

[HashiriyaS14]

While this is sort off the path that this thread has started down....

The KA is the 2nd largest 4-cyl I've ever heard of. The 3rd largest would be Honda's H23, and the largest would be the 2.6L from the Mitsubushi Starion.

Does anyone know of any other larger 4-cylinders? I'm really only thinking gasoline car engines here, if someone finds a 6-liter 4-cyl diesel dump truck engine or something, it doesn't count.

[InsanityInc]

You forgot the subaru 2.5L, though, it's a boxer and not an I4.

Also, I think porsche has had some fairly large boxer 4s in the past.

[Red coupe]

also the 944's 2.5L I4 or the 944S2 a 3.0L I4...

[DanCouga]

A list of 'winners' in various areas. It is a wiki so there is a chance of errors(or omissions).

[4gotn1]

really. my power dosnt drop off till 6500. and that is on a dyno. infact it was posted on here a while ago. and my car has a stock cam in it still, for your info.

and the sohc valvetrain is better. it can handle much more lift and duration before you need to change the springs.

i think you are the one who needs to go read a book. and look up some dyno graphs. because you are sadly mistaken.

and it is better. i wasnt refering to the rocker/lifter design. i was refering to the actual spring, they can handle higher lift and duration than the stock dohc can. the stock sohc only flows 30cfm less than the dohc. minor porting can fix that.

[raging panda]

thats fine that your car holds power to 6500, but it still flows less and has less power than a stock dohc, which is a better head. So the springs can take a higher lift cam, that makes it better?

I dunno about you, but i would rather add cams and new springs than have to port the engine and add a cam just to play catch up, but hey you get to keep your stock valve springs eh? And forget the valvetrain design, the springs are better!!!!!!!

[InsanityInc]

really. my power dosnt drop off till 6500. and that is on a dyno. infact it was posted on here a while ago. and my car has a stock cam in it still, for your info.

Then post it.

Quote »and the sohc valvetrain is better. it can handle much more lift and duration before you need to change the springs.[/quote]ooOOooOh, valve springs. The DOHC valvetrain is superior because it's A) more durable and B) capable of higher revs. I mean, seriously, valve springs? You can change those without pulling the head if you're lazy.

Quote »and it is better. i wasnt refering to the rocker/lifter design. i was refering to the actual spring, they can handle higher lift and duration than the stock dohc can. the stock sohc only flows 30cfm less than the dohc. minor porting can fix that. [/quote]Hah hah. Sorry, but minor porting isn't going to make up for having one less valve.

[420Sxpres]

Considering we were talking about the phrase "Torque wins races", practicality is completely irrelevant. Also, while an F1 might "only" run a 9s quarter mile, compare its 0-200 times to those hondas. Oh, wait, those hondas can't GET to 200mph, my bad. If you geared the F1 car for a quarter mile then it would run it faster. Also, modern F1 cars have to be naturally aspirated. The turbo ones were far, far faster (so fast they banned turbos because too many drivers were dying). The fastest all motor honda drag car is 11s, if I recall.

1st off Tacuma SATO (not sure if its spelled right) 224mph BAR Honda F1. Honda has a button on there cars that will let the driver rev an extra 500rpm in a race if need be 17,500 to 18,000 rpm but SATO has blown more engines than any other driver this season. 2nd Erick Aguliar run 9sec all motor all f*ckin day. Worlds 1st to 10 and 9 secall motor front wheel. Come GUYS. Viper to F1 we are talking bout 985 BHP!!!! all motor 1600lb 17K RPM NO ****ING COMPARO!!!!!
Modified by 420Sxpres at 8:28 PM 7/21/2005

[Dattebayo]

I believe there was a 3 liter I-4 as well, I think It was the porsche 968.