:)

[93coupe]

1.) That's nice that they did that, but...

Why is this a point?

2.) What have the people of Haiti done to help the homeless, or the US for that matter? I didn't see Haiti when Hurricane Katrina hit.

What did Haiti have to give during Hurricane Katrina? Since when do you only help people that help you?

3.) It's nice that they're helping out, but they should be concerned about themselves (and everyone who pays their taxes in the US) first.

I think if more people would take others into consideration before thinking about their own needs the world would be a better place.

4.) Is it the homeless people donating, or working people. Where is this money coming from?

Pan handling Who cares, they're giving. Good for them. Try it.

[PoorManQ45]

Eff this whole thing.

It's a bunch of BS.

There are millions of homeless people in this country. Nothing is being done for them... Instead we give money to another county. IIRC the government ear marks like 300 million a year to go to haiti anyways.

Either way, help yourselves. No one should have to hand you $hit

[93coupe]

Either way, help yourselves. No one should have to hand you $hit

Remember that when you are trying to lift blocks off of family members.

[PoorManQ45]

Ugh... I am referring to monetary support.

[93coupe]

Ugh... I am referring to monetary support.

Oooo. Well, have you heard about the new pop sensation to come out of Haiti?

[PoorManQ45]

No, I have no idea who or what you're referencing.

[Otto.]

New Blocks On The Kids, y0!

[ADDirishboy]

Whoa, PMQ is pissy because people are helping other people in a time of need? Since when?

[Jesda]

Your obligation in this universe is to first support yourself and stand on your own feet so you can end your dependency on others. Then, you can eventually think about giving.

There's nothing virtuous or noble about donating when you're homeless. If anything its evidence that a few of the homeless choose it, either by intent or by a series of foolish decisions including the steps taken to degenerate into a life of addiction.

Modern society moves forward not by altruism (not that altruism is bad), but by the prosperity, progress, and utilitarian good that comes as a result of individual actions, voluntary interactions and associations, and an elevated human desire to have more and do more.

Its a privilege to be a functional human being. The gift of human life, whether caused by natural evolution or divine influence, creates an obligation that requires us to reach our fullest potential. Otherwise, we're no better than cockroaches.

And on that note, I've sucked some of the joy out of the thread.

[MinisterofDOOM]

As nice as the idea of giving is, I have to agree with Jesda. Giving away money you don't have is not noble. If the cause were any different an act like this would be frowned upon. Get to a point where you can contribute to society by means other than donating panhandled cash and I'll be impressed. Until then, it's just another disappointing misuse of money someone should be using to get back on their feet. I totally agree with Jesda's point about the homeless often choosing to be homeless. Their lack of ability (whether it be an issue of willpower or common sense) to do anything productive with the money they beg for is extremely disappointing. $15 isn't helping the Haitians. But it sure as hell might buy a few meals for a homeless guy.

The gift of human life, whether caused by natural evolution or divine influence, creates an obligation that requires us to reach our fullest potential. Otherwise, we're no better than cockroaches.

I don't think I've ever heard that idea expressed so well and so succinctly. Hear hear! That's my philosophy on life and sentience and humanity boiled down to two sentences.

[dusred]

2.) What have the people of Haiti done to help the homeless, or the US for that matter? I didn't see Haiti when Hurricane Katrina hit.

They aren't free like we are so they don't have the opportunities like we do. Hell, they can't even stand on their own feet much less help others.

This thread is so screwed up. I think I'll just leave now.

[S13_love]

[PoorManQ45]

They aren't free like we are so they don't have the opportunities like we do. Hell, they can't even stand on their own feet much less help others.

Proof?

[Razi]

They are the poorest country in the northern hemisphere, and probably in the world due to this damn earthquake.

[dusred]

Proof?

Prove that I'm wrong. Did you go to Geography in grade school? Their government is one of the most corrupt and their country is one of the poorest (seems like the two go hand in hand). For instance money is sent by charities to help and it is used by the government to build a palace while there are people on the streets surviving on $2 a day.

edit-

to further prove my point here is a pic of thos in the streets:



and one of where the officials live:

[PoorManQ45]

That proves nothing. The philippines look the same way.

Every year we send almost $300 million to haiti.

Filipinos can live on $2 a day too. You can't throw out a dollar reference without diving into the economic makeup of a country.

Also, you made the statement about them being poor and not having opportunities. That means the responsibility lies on you to provide information to back up this statement. I simply asked for that information.

Every country is different. You can not keep referencing the USA as a starting point

[dusred]

Okay. Tell me of an example of where and how they have opportunities like you do. Now that half their country has been devastated by these 2 earthquakes it is 10X worse than it already was.

[PoorManQ45]

I have no idea what opportunities they have as I haven't studied their culture and economy.

I didn't say what they can do.

I was just asking for information to back up your statement

[Razi]

Even though they live in the poorest country in the world, I'm 100% sure they all have the same opportunities as us, why wouldn't they?

I'm sure they can work a job at the nice mall across town, go to a great college, play on their PS3, have food fights, and pick up a small comedy gig with William Shatner.

[PoorManQ45]

You are still making the mistake of comparing them to us!

You can't do that. Their way of life is completely different.

What you're doing is like saying that because tribes in africa live in huts we need to send them a billion dollars because they don't have the same life style as us.

[dusred]

You are still making the mistake of comparing them to us!

You can't do that. Their way of life is completely different.

Yup. And I've already pointed out why their way of life is different than ours. . . because they aren't free like we are and therefore they don't have the opportunities. I don't know about you but I look at our nation as the greatest on earth so why not compare them to us? We have freedom we live in a land of opportunity. They live under tyranny and are all poor and live in desolate conditions. Are you saying that the reason they are poor isn't because they aren't free?

Haiti is an excellent example of what tyranny will do to a nation. Thanks Obama, but you can keep your tyranny and move to Haiti and we will keep our freedom and liberty and stay in America.

[Razi]

Their way of life is completely different.

No s*** Einstein Mr. PHD in Common Sense over here, just blew my mind wide open.

What you're doing is like saying that because tribes in africa live in huts we need to send them a billion dollars because they don't have the same life style as us.

Who said we need to send them a billion dollars because they have a different life style?With that logic we should be sending money to ALL countries, which we shouldn't be doing, and won't be doing because we aren't sending money to people due to their 'different lifestyle'.

You are still making the mistake of comparing them to us!

How is that a mistake?

[PoorManQ45]

I don't know about you but I look at our nation as the greatest on earth so why not compare them to us? We have freedom we live in a land of opportunity. They live under tyranny and are all poor and live in desolate conditions. Are you saying that the reason they are poor isn't because they aren't free?

So then. Since you consider the USA to be "the greatest country on earth", that means that we should be supporting and helping every other country in the world as their lifestyle, living conditions, opportunities, and rights are not on par with ours?

I don't understand the thought process behind that.

Every time the USA tries to help and removes a "tyrant" from a country the situation just gets worse. Refer to Cuba, Peru, and Columbia for examples.

The USA is always sticking its collective nose in other countries business. There is no need for this. Are we so arrogant to think that our way is the best way? It very much seems that way. We have tried to impose our way of life in over a dozen different countries. Look how well that worked out... Vietnam...

How is that a mistake?

You are looking at their everyday lives and then holding it to what we have here. The reference point is completely skewed. Try comparing haiti to nomadic tribes in africa. The Haitians look a hell of a lot better then. It's all about the reference point that you choose. You are choosing to use one of the highest standards and compare it to them.

To tie it in to cars. It's like saying that a 12 second car is slow because a Top Fuel Dragster is so much faster.

[Razi]

You are looking at their everyday lives and then holding it to what we have here. The reference point is completely skewed. Try comparing haiti to nomadic tribes in africa. The Haitians look a hell of a lot better then. It's all about the reference point that you choose. You are choosing to use one of the highest standards and compare it to them.

To tie it in to cars. It's like saying that a 12 second car is slow because a Top Fuel Dragster is so much faster.

So basically, "They are perfectly fine, don't help them out", is what you're saying?

You don't care that they were in an unstable condition before the earthquake, and that the quake worsened their situation?

So basically, if we see you on the side of the road upside down in a car, don't call 911, since we shouldn't compare our situations (You, dieing. Us, in good health), because surely there are people that are doing worse out there.

[dusred]

So then. Since you consider the USA to be "the greatest country on earth", that means that we should be supporting and helping every other country in the world as their lifestyle, living conditions, opportunities, and rights are not on par with ours?

No. I don't think we should be the world police unless another country is directly threatening us (Iran). I don't necessarily agree with the wars we are fighting. Also I don't think we should try to make other countries like ours by putting our noses in their business and giving them money.

However, we should set the example for the rest of the world showing what freedom will do for a nation. I didn't say "greatest country on earth" I said "greatest nation on earth". There is a difference.

The USA is always sticking its collective nose in other countries business. There is no need for this.

Like I said, there is if another nation is directly threatening us and I gave the example of Iran with their nuclear weapons.

Are we so arrogant to think that our way is the best way? It very much seems that way. We have tried to impose our way of life in over a dozen different countries. Look how well that worked out... Vietnam...

History says that freedom is the road to prosperity. So I think we can honestly way that our way is the best way. BUT, I agree, we shouldn't be trying to force our views on other nations.

You are choosing to use one of the highest standards and compare it to them.

Okay than, what/who do you want me to compare them to?

If you are so displeased with America why don't you, Michael Moore, Obama, and the rest of the America bashers go move to Cuba?

[PoorManQ45]

So basically, if we see you on the side of the road upside down in a car, don't call 911, since we shouldn't compare our situations (You, dieing. Us, in good health), because surely there are people that are doing worse out there.

Ah, the extremist reference.

So basically, "They are perfectly fine, don't help them out", is what you're saying?

You don't care that they were in an unstable condition before the earthquake, and that the quake worsened their situation?

Do you think that this is going to end with us simply giving them food and supplies?

No, Haiti is going to be occupied by the military for the next X years until their "government is rebuilt". It has happened many times and will happen again.

[dusred]

To tie it in to cars. It's like saying that a 12 second car is slow because a Top Fuel Dragster is so much faster.

Ah, the extremist reference.

No, Haiti is going to be occupied by the military for the next X years until their "government is rebuilt". It has happened many times and will happen again.

Teach a man to fish. . . Oh wait, the man doesn't have a fishing pole because his government thinks he is too stupid to run it. And if he is smart enough to fish the government wants him to give them 9/10 of every fish.

This is getting into an interesting political debate. Maybe someone could move us to politics? Thx

[Razi]

Ah, the extremist reference.

I don't get how that was extremist, I was just wondering if that's how your logic goes.

Do you think that this is going to end with us simply giving them food and supplies?

No, Haiti is going to be occupied by the military for the next X years until their "government is rebuilt". It has happened many times and will happen again.

I see.You don't help want to people in need because Haiti will be occupied by the military.

[PoorManQ45]

My reference was to show the equivalence of the previous reference in terms of cars. It was meant to be extreme as the initial comparison is of two extremes.

Teach a man to fish. . . Oh wait, the man doesn't have a fishing pole because his government thinks he is too stupid to run it. And if he is smart enough to fish the government wants him to give them 9/10 of every fish.

Honestly, I am not completely in the know of the situation of the Haitian government and politics. All I can say is that the way of life and government implemented in a country is typically chosen by the people of the country to begin with. So, if we fix something, the people are just going to break it again.

[Razi]

To tie it in to cars. It's like saying that a 12 second car is slow because a Top Fuel Dragster is so much faster.

LOL I just realized how little sense this comparison makes to this topic.

If we want to tie it to cars.We are saying Haiti's fuel tank is running on fumes and our tank has a full tank, so we are giving Haiti some 'fuel'.

You are saying "stop comparing their empty tank and our full tank, it's a mistake, of course their situation looks bad if you compare it to ours, so don't do it!"