Tolerance: Vice or virtue in political activities, thoughts, and actions.

[Jacko3]

Hes really tryen to prop himself up as some kind of intellectual, distancing him from his own comments/'arguments' and banter with redirects and praise for an opposing view points and criticism. I had respect for this guy(i guess mainly because of his title, but he had been adding somewhat productive posts) but he lost it all today in a few threads.

Im already ignoring his posts.. I suppose thats pretty fallacious but for real, i read that s*** and while i comprehend it, he uses a verbose version of english thats not really fitting in this situation at all. In addition the redirects are so f***ing obnoxious its ridiculous. You bring up a point, and instead of giving you an answer to a point this guy asks you 10 questions. Like. Dude, simple. Respond to the point without redirecting or GTFO.

My advice to you if you feel the need to stay here is get yourself off the pedestal you put yourself up on and be real with yourself. Your no political guru, you might be slightly gifted, but your display today in this forum are generally received as a joke. Take the stick out of your a** and just be real dude. Dont jump on someones dvk who criticizes you while ignoring their point, it just makes you look.. bad.

Modified by 480sx at 11:58 PM 2/24/2009

Excellently said! The emotions your present, the ideas, and thoughts, are exactly an examplar of what a political forum and debate should be all about. It should be tolerated and accepted as a norm for any meaningful and frutiful debate. I applaud your sense of honesty and I welcome more of your candid outbursts and commentary. This is the way it should be. I agree with you. And, a debate is an intellectual dragstrip. We should have the capacity to drag our cars or race them, as we would our minds. Thus, modding out the mind similarly as we mod out our cars for better performance, is a fun and costless activity

In addition, any political forum or forum with serious discuss, requires a devil's advocate. Without such an individual, we are more likely than not to resort to groupthink, which in my opinion diminishes the true potential of members of that group, while further escewing honesty. Again, I applaud your sense of honesty and contributions.

Remember, a well-rounded ability, is one that can appreciate several points of views from several perspectives, even if they don't completely agree with all the points of views. So, i can't help but agree with you when you make very good points. Simply agreeing with those who agree with you or disagreeing with those who disagree with you, is not a great sign of sportsmanship. What do you think? By the way, how are you doing today?

Modified by Jacko3 at 6:41 AM 2/25/2009
Modified by Jacko3 at 6:43 AM 2/25/2009

[Jacko3]

See, while I COULD take you guys to task (DUSRED), I'll just say this. Jacko and I have had more than a few run-ins on the G forums. I have no trouble seeing right through his wall of text. I find it comical that you guys picked on his "high falutin' words" and no one mentioned that the entire first "paragraph" is ONE SENTENCE. Mind you, with MULTIPLE ANDS, when the rules of modern standard English allow for one "and." Good job Jacko. Why dont you stick to the G forums where you can pontificate on the glories of your car, and driving in general. As I've said before to many Johnny come-latelys, Quiet, Men are talking.

Excellenlty said! How is medical school coming along? Lots of work, eh? Any more pictures of places you have travelled since you got into medical school? The last pictures you posted in the G forum a few months ago, were excellent.
Modified by Jacko3 at 6:38 AM 2/25/2009

[marlin29311]

I will help you

Polarization is a kind of glass in sunglasses

phenomenon is a movie with John Travolta

purportedly is the act of intentionally getting fat (portly)

communism is what Russia was

globalization...hell, I dunno what that is

acculturation is what a doctor does when seeing if you are really sick or not

sophisticated is how city folk say they are different than us rednecks

asymetrical is a type of cymbal sued with a drum set

facet is a point cut into a diamond ring

epitome is one of those old record labels from the 50's

stakeholder is the person who holds the stake over the vampires heart. Not to be confused with the steakhitter

intellectually is using big words in order to confuse people into thinking they are smart

I hope that clears things up for you.....

Globalization refers to the fact that the supply chain has broadened to the entire world and that we no longer can self sustain ourselves - markets for all goods and services are viewed in a global scheme, instead of a national one.

That's about all I've got on this thread.

[AZhitman]

And, a debate is an intellectual dragstrip. We should have the capacity to drag our cars or race them, as we would our minds. Thus, modding out the mind similarly as we mod out our cars for better performance, is a fun and costless activity .

The problem here, though, is you're not even bringing a car to the drags.You're calling in from 1300 miles away, saying, "Meet me on the track", and not even showing up.

You're not engaging in "debate". Debate requires opposing viewpoints, supported by evidence and presented in a clear, convincing fashion.

In fact, your participation in this thread gives me the following visual: A transvestite figure skater twirling into the middle of a hockey game, throwing a frail punch at one of the players (and missing), and skating away, skirt a-fluttering.... then telling everyone you "beat up" the star scorer.

In addition, any political forum or forum with serious discuss, requires a devil's advocate.

Hate to break it to you, but you're not that guy. Not even close.

It amuses me that you'd even perceive yourself as such.

I'd give that title to any number of other Poli forum posters. 480sx, ishkabibble, helio... take your pick.

[480sx]

The problem here, though, is you're not even bringing a car to the drags.You're calling in from 1300 miles away, saying, "Meet me on the track", and not even showing up.

You're not engaging in "debate". Debate requires opposing viewpoints, supported by evidence and presented in a clear, convincing fashion.

In fact, your participation in this thread gives me the following visual: A transvestite figure skater twirling into the middle of a hockey game, throwing a frail punch at one of the players (and missing), and skating away, skirt a-fluttering.... then telling everyone you "beat up" the star scorer.

+1--------Well said! You will be my best friend yet Greg! Amazing use of visualization and analogies! This display of verbosity at my expense just proves how useful i am here!

[breadbox]

I was a work a couple days ago and a guy asks me a question to which I had no information but told him to email a particular person and then out of nowhere he tells me, "this is one of the most intolerant areas I have ever lived."

I said "You mean our area code?"

"No just south of Williamsburg."

I was confused and he hung up.

When you complain about intolerance, does that make you intolerant?

[Jacko3]

The problem here, though, is you're not even bringing a car to the drags.You're calling in from 1300 miles away, saying, "Meet me on the track", and not even showing up.

You're not engaging in "debate". Debate requires opposing viewpoints, supported by evidence and presented in a clear, convincing fashion.

In fact, your participation in this thread gives me the following visual: A transvestite figure skater twirling into the middle of a hockey game, throwing a frail punch at one of the players (and missing), and skating away, skirt a-fluttering.... then telling everyone you "beat up" the star scorer.

Hate to break it to you, but you're not that guy. Not even close.

It amuses me that you'd even perceive yourself as such.

I'd give that title to any number of other Poli forum posters. 480sx, ishkabibble, helio... take your pick.

Dear Greg, my good friend:

You have presented very interesting metaphors, hyperboles, and perpectives. Nice! We need more of this. Thats the point---dissent is king. Care to re-read my first comment regarding tolerance, again? This is what debate is all about and I love it.

You will agree with me that it takes two to engage in a fruitful debate--receiver and sender of information, don't you think so? Naturally, the sender of information may not necessarily always get the attention of the receiver of the information, or send information in a format that is easily decipherable, sometimes done, either consciously or unconsciously, and depending on the context in which the information was being sent. This is a fact of life in many of endeavors in life, wouldn't you agree?

Hahahaha, your visual re-creation of what I might be, is definitely creative and worthy of introduction as a source of constructive amusement to my person and to the light-hearted. Again, such a hyperbole as you have stated, is key in any fruitful debate or discuss. Again, your participation is very welcome. I love this.

Any evidence to suggest that opposing view points are being suppressed by Jacko? But I never said i was the devil's advocate or perceived myself as such, did I? I am unsure how such a conclusion was reached. I beleive very few of the links I have provided in other threads have been disputed so far. But again, one is entitled to their opinion, and not their fact.

Dear Greg, it would appear that our friendship is strengthening by the minute and by the day. This is a constructive development, don't you think? It would also appear that we are yielding to the ethos of a typical fruitful debate devoid of commentary fraught with obscolesence, as I imagined a healthy community should be. This is great and a welcome change to NICOCLUB.

And so, before all and sundry, I thank you for being a great sport so far. Its all about having fun and having a good play with words and minds, while we learn the intricacies and complexities of tolerance and its associated anchors.

You may not beleive this, but I enjoy sparring with you in a productive and exciting way. You bring a unique flavor to the discussion.

Oh, by the way, i day dream about wearing a pink dress, with a tutu, and a ribbon on one side of my long hair, going to work with a brief case (just kidding, LMAO!). A good debater should also be able to poke fun at themself. Its all about having fun, and nothing more.

What do you think?


Modified by Jacko3 at 9:49 AM 2/25/2009

[Jacko3]

When you complain about intolerance, does that make you intolerant?

Excellent question! Bravo!

[heliochrome85]

until you decide to join us in reality, i refuse to read any of the overwrought tripe you put forth. If it were me, I'd have banned you a long time ago. I dont take lightly your condescending approach. Nor do I think you are respectful of the members of this forum. By making this forum a mockery, you have lost any respect or attention I had left for you. Congrats.

[AZhitman]

Dear Greg, it would appear that our friendship is strengthening by the minute and by the day. This is a constructive development, don't you think?

No. In fact, you've lasted longer than the last woman who said such drivel to me.

p.s. You're no debater. Sorry.

[Jacko3]

until you decide to join us in reality, i refuse to read any of the overwrought tripe you put forth. If it were me, I'd have banned you a long time ago. I dont take lightly your condescending approach. Nor do I think you are respectful of the members of this forum. By making this forum a mockery, you have lost any respect or attention I had left for you. Congrats.

The topic of this thread is about "tolerance", isn't it? So, where did i go wrong, according to you? What is condescending about my approach?

[Jacko3]

No. In fact, you've lasted longer than the last woman who said such drivel to me.

p.s. You're no debater. Sorry.

Greg, I like you. You are a great sport.

[480sx]

Well said! You will be my best friend yet Greg! Amazing use of visualization and analogies! This display of verbosity at my expense just proves how useful i am here!

I usually dont laugh at my own jokes but this is just.. priceless.

Dear Greg, my good friend:

You have presented very interesting metaphors, hyperboles, and perpectives. Nice! We need more of this. Thats the point---dissent is king. Care to re-read my first comment regarding tolerance, again? This is what debate is all about and I love it.

You will agree with me that it takes two to engage in a fruitful debate--receiver and sender of information, don't you think so? Naturally, the sender of information may not necessarily always get the attention of the receiver of the information, or send information in a format that is easily decipherable, sometimes done, either consciously or unconsciously, and depending on the context in which the information was being sent. This is a fact of life in many of endeavors in life, wouldn't you agree?

Hahahaha, your visual re-creation of what I might be, is definitely creative and worthy of introduction as a source of constructive amusement to my person and to the light-hearted. Again, such a hyperbole as you have stated, is key in any fruitful debate or discuss. Again, your participation is very welcome. I love this.

Any evidence to suggest that opposing view points are being suppressed by Jacko? But I never said i was the devil's advocate or perceived myself as such, did I? I am unsure how such a conclusion was reached. I beleive very few of the links I have provided in other threads have been disputed so far. But again, one is entitled to their opinion, and not their fact.

Dear Greg, it would appear that our friendship is strengthening by the minute and by the day. This is a constructive development, don't you think? It would also appear that we are yielding to the ethos of a typical fruitful debate devoid of commentary fraught with obscolesence, as I imagined a healthy community should be. This is great and a welcome change to NICOCLUB.

And so, before all and sundry, I thank you for being a great sport so far. Its all about having fun and having a good play with words and minds, while we learn the intricacies and complexities of tolerance and its associated anchors.

You may not beleive this, but I enjoy sparring with you in a productive and exciting way. You bring a unique flavor to the discussion.

Oh, by the way, i day dream about wearing a pink dress, with a tutu, and a ribbon on one side of my long hair, going to work with a brief case (just kidding, LMAO!). A good debater should also be able to poke fun at themself. Its all about having fun, and nothing more.

What do you think?

LMFAO, holy s***, its funny how i took an blatherful essay, before it was written by someone who i really barely know at all, and condensed it down into 3 sentences. Sorry again, i dont mean to laugh at my own joke but that is freaken hilarious to me.

Man i come across as such an ***hole, but ffs, ill take the hit for this one.

A good debater should also be able to poke fun at themself.

You have no idea what makes a good debater. While i may agree that the ability to self analyze and laugh at ones own mistakes and make light with some self-defecating humor has political advantages in the eyes of the masses, it gets old, really quick. Once in a blue moon, sure, everyone slips up, and the ability to make a quick witted remark at ones own expense can save a lot of face. However as a pattern, this is not what someone wants in a politician, debater, or a man of influence/power.

Its all about having fun, and nothing more.

To you it is. To us men, this is about the world we live in. This is about the government we have problems with. This, while occasionally having undertones of humor to break the mood is a deathly serious issue. If you think political debates are all about fun your a fool and you wont last here. Your jovial tone about everything, your lack of respect for this sub-forum, your lack of knowledge of politics in general, your misunderstanding of the true meaning and nature of debate have made me lose all respect for you in the last 2 days. Im sure im not the only one who feels the same way.

This is saying nothing of your struggle to use the fringe of the English language to prop yourself up as an intellectual. Its annoying. It doesnt promote good communication. It doesnt spur good debate. It doesnt help you in any way shape or form. In my opinion, it makes you look like a self conscious wanabe intellectual who is tryen really hard to put himself up on a pedestal.

I will give you a tiny bit of ground however. Political debates, especially in this forum can be unbelievably fun for some. I have a great time letting some of my ideas flow, and having my points attacked. The chance to defend my position is a blast. When i run, my armpits barely sweat, my whole body sweats. When im throwing game at girls, i dont sweat. When im involved in a good mind exercising political debate be it on this forum or in PLS class, my pits are like Everest in the spring.

I usually dont like getting personal in the politics forum, but i do so in this case for your benefit. This is my take on you so far. You know it yourself, you arnt being well received in this forum. Either change your way of thinking or find a philosophy forum. In your current mindset, i dont think you have what it takes to engage in any 'fruitful' political discussion. You might pick some here and there for your own personal benefit, but for the rest of us, its all rotten apples.

[AZhitman]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Methinks our boy J equates navel-gazing with debate.

Debate involves defending a position. GOOD debate involves doing so with parsimony.

Debate does NOT involve asking theoretical questions without an eventual point. It does not involve pandering to (or slobbering on) your fellow debater. It does NOT involve allowing the debate to go off-topic, nor does it exist for your personal entertainment.

Some of Jacko's posts actually remind me of an autistic kid I used to supervise in a group home....

Whenever someone would speak to him, he would grin broadly, stick his hand down the front of his pants, and start whacking away furiously.

Unnerving at the least. His illness ensured that his contact with the outside world diminished with every occurrence.

See a doctor before it's too late.

[Jacko3]

I usually dont laugh at my own jokes but this is just.. priceless.

LMFAO, holy s***, its funny how i took an blatherful essay, before it was written by someone who i really barely know at all, and condensed it down into 3 sentences. Sorry again, i dont mean to laugh at my own joke but that is freaken hilarious to me.

Man i come across as such an ***hole, but ffs, ill take the hit for this one.

You have no idea what makes a good debater. While i may agree that the ability to self analyze and laugh at ones own mistakes and make light with some self-defecating humor has political advantages in the eyes of the masses, it gets old, really quick. Once in a blue moon, sure, everyone slips up, and the ability to make a quick witted remark at ones own expense can save a lot of face. However as a pattern, this is not what someone wants in a politician, debater, or a man of influence/power.

To you it is. To us men, this is about the world we live in. This is about the government we have problems with. This, while occasionally having undertones of humor to break the mood is a deathly serious issue. If you think political debates are all about fun your a fool and you wont last here. Your jovial tone about everything, your lack of respect for this sub-forum, your lack of knowledge of politics in general, your misunderstanding of the true meaning and nature of debate have made me lose all respect for you in the last 2 days. Im sure im not the only one who feels the same way.

This is saying nothing of your struggle to use the fringe of the English language to prop yourself up as an intellectual. Its annoying. It doesnt promote good communication. It doesnt spur good debate. It doesnt help you in any way shape or form. In my opinion, it makes you look like a self conscious wanabe intellectual who is tryen really hard to put himself up on a pedestal.

I will give you a tiny bit of ground however. Political debates, especially in this forum can be unbelievably fun for some. I have a great time letting some of my ideas flow, and having my points attacked. The chance to defend my position is a blast. When i run, my armpits barely sweat, my whole body sweats. When im throwing game at girls, i dont sweat. When im involved in a good mind exercising political debate be it on this forum or in PLS class, my pits are like Everest in the spring.

I usually dont like getting personal in the politics forum, but i do so in this case for your benefit. This is my take on you so far. You know it yourself, you arnt being well received in this forum. Either change your way of thinking or find a philosophy forum. In your current mindset, i dont think you have what it takes to engage in any 'fruitful' political discussion. You might pick some here and there for your own personal benefit, but for the rest of us, its all rotten apples.

Amazing and somewhat interesting! Just what I was expecting. Any credible reason why one would speak in such a manner, and in such an angry tone, as it is perceived?? I was just wondering. So, what good has one's irritation, as I perceive it, contributed so far to the idea of tolerance? We are living witnesses and in some cases, specimens, as we write, to the core topic of this thread, which is about "tolerance". This is so much fun, as I perceive it.

I am pleased with the time taken to respond. I think a lot of emotions, however inconsequential, have been well displayed, perhaps productively and on the other hand, in futility. Nonetheless, allowing one's emotion to gush out in either tolerance or less of it, is a first step in achieving the core end of tolerance and diverging views, as this thread subscribes, don't you think so? I do appreciate your heart-felt concerns, however intangible they maybe.

You will agree with me that in some ways, this is an online laboratory of the study of tolerance. We can choose to either be witnesses or be specimens in that effort. What do you think?

Furthermore, how would you define "tolerance" and what core elements or factors do you feel would primarily influence the act of "tolerance". What typologies do you suggest towards this end? These questions are designed to further the discuss on the nature and form of "tolerance" relative to the environment we engage. Is it a vice or a virture? What do you think?

NOTE: First rule of a debate is to always control one's emotions. It appears one has allowed emotions to get the better of them. In this case, it appears emotions has become a vice in this instance of more or less tolerance.

[AZhitman]

Must....not...press... BAN... button....

[Jacko3]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Methinks our boy J equates navel-gazing with debate.

Debate involves defending a position. GOOD debate involves doing so with parsimony.

Debate does NOT involve asking theoretical questions without an eventual point. It does not involve pandering to (or slobbering on) your fellow debater. It does NOT involve allowing the debate to go off-topic, nor does it exist for your personal entertainment.

Some of Jacko's posts actually remind me of an autistic kid I used to supervise in a group home....

Whenever someone would speak to him, he would grin broadly, stick his hand down the front of his pants, and start whacking away furiously.

Unnerving at the least. His illness ensured that his contact with the outside world diminished with every occurrence.

See a doctor before it's too late.

My Dear Gregg:

As always, you present very credible thoughts and ideas that may or may not require a smidgen of insignficant refinement. Great thoughts!

Parsimony is highly subjective to the style of the debater. Some like it cold and others like it hot. However, the term "parsimony" as used in the context you have suggested, can be helpful if the subject matter would allow it. What do you think?

On the contrary, a debate is like a erecting a structure. Sometimes the erectlon may be straightforward, and at other times, the structure's architects may make unforeseen adjustments during that building process. What do you think?

Whether an argument becomes theoretical or not, may be a matter of the quality of the receiver of information and the quality of the sender of the information. No judgement is being made here. Of course, other unsaid and unstated factors, may also contribute to this effect, as in this instance, as I am also sure you will agree, won't you?

As part of my life experiences, I have found many autistic kids to be worthy of their weight in gold than those of us gifted with the seeds of normalcy. Its amazing how far an autistic child will go to be the best. God bless their wonderful souls.

Have you spent time with an autistic child before? They are sweet and godly, and filled with only the innocence this existence can provide.

So, again, and in reference to the topic at hand---"tolerance", should we extend our tolerance to the less fortunate in our society or not? Are ideas best presented within invisible walls of oppression and oppressive stances?

Tolerance is a very interesting topic that is not only theoretical but practical. And sometimes we all choose to be witnesses to that experiement or be specimens in it.

Nonetheless, your comments were very interesting. Don't you think so?

[heliochrome85]

PLEASE BAN HIM. good god. PLEASE.

[Jacko3]

PLEASE BAN HIM. good god. PLEASE.

How are you doing today? How is school coming along?

[dusred]

My Dear Gregg:

I think before you and Greg (notice it's only one g) will become friends you'll have to learn how to spell his name.

[480sx]

NOTE: First rule of a debate is to always control one's emotions. It appears one has allowed emotions to get the better of them. In this case, it appears emotions has become a vice in this instance of more or less tolerance.

This is not a debate. My emotions are in check. Your last post does piss me off however. I was trying to build a bridge with you in a backwards way and you spit it back in my face. I figured with your vast intellect you might be able to see that while my tone might be abrasive(because thats how i am by nature), it was forward, to the point, and was kinda joking with you at times, albeit, mainly at your expense.

Greg brings up a point that i had missed with my war like ways of dealing with this forum. He now has me questioning the very thing he is questioning. You are disturbing.

[Jacko3]

I think before you and Greg (notice it's only one g) will become friends you'll have to learn how to spell his name.

I agree! Thanks for the correction.

Greg, I am sorry for misspelling your name. It won't happen again. and most of all, thanks for being understanding with my misspelling of your name.

[Jacko3]

This is not a debate. My emotions are in check. Your last post does piss me off however. I was trying to build a bridge with you in a backwards way and you spit it back in my face. I figured with your vast intellect you might be able to see that while my tone might be abrasive(because thats how i am by nature), it was forward, to the point, and was kinda joking with you at times, albeit, mainly at your expense.

Greg brings up a point that i had missed with my war like ways of dealing with this forum. He now has me questioning the very thing he is questioning. You are disturbing.

Well, I am sorry if I misunderstood your stance. I am not perfect and I have never claimed to be one, even if I come across that way. So, what say you about the questions posed about "tolerance"?And, by the way, how are you doing today?

[AZhitman]

PLEASE BAN HIM. good god. PLEASE.

Democracy: Preventing beheadings since 1776.

[Jacko3]

Democracy: Preventing beheadings since 1776.

Greg:

Excellently said! Exactly! I am in total submission to those few and powerful words.

Is there a place on the political forum thread where those powerful words you just said, can be placed for all who come into the forum to see, of course, with your name affixed to it? That is a very powerful statement.

[heliochrome85]

sometimes i love you. sometimes i hate you.

on a side note, did democracy save that lady in buffalo from being beheaded??!?

sometimes, you just gotta swing that axe.

[480sx]

Im doing fvking great.

Jacko, you come across as a very bizarre and kinda disturbing person. Believe me, you dont come across as anything near a perfect person, you dont have to worry about that. While it might have been a joke, i dont really care, you still give me the creeps.

I dont really feel the need to comment on your op post because i have no respect for you at this moment in time. As others have tried, failed, and noted afterwords, you are a waste of time to try to get into a discussion with. In addition, the gloves have come off at this point. You might notice me being a gigantic ***hole(if you havnt already), this is a side effect of your personal attacks on me, and your persistent condescending tone. I could make a list but, i feel that i already have gone over it all with you. Someone of your purported mental capacity should be able to understand my reasons for ignoring you at my discretion.
Modified by 480sx at 7:40 PM 2/25/2009

[G_whizz]

sometimes i love you. sometimes i hate you.

on a side note, did democracy save that lady in buffalo from being beheaded??!?

sometimes, you just gotta swing that axe.

I heard about that. That was more based on personal belief and "honour" then democracy IMO.

Damn...I swore I'd stay out of this forum...

[heliochrome85]

I heard about that. That was more based on personal belief and "honour" then democracy IMO.

Damn...I swore I'd stay out of this forum...

whatever sean, you know you love it.

on a side note, im "enjoying" watching the G forum turn into the new 240 forum. CAN I GET A 2003 G COUPE FOR LIKE 5K?!?! IZ DAT A HOT DEAL?!?

[G_whizz]

LOL... I have a hard time keeping my emotions in check when it comes to certain topics... that's why I'm never in here.

Yeah, you had to know that was going to eventually happen as the older models become more affordable to the youngins. It's ok, we keep the flaming in check so it won't become a Romper Room.

Nice to hear you're still perusing in there, even if it's Ninja style