tires

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Guys & Gals,long time since my last post.

I have always been running race tires on my 240. Now that I have a baby on the way my car budget is *very* limited and I cant afford tires that wear out in 2 weeks.

So my question is, what street tires do you guys recommend for aggressive use? What sizes?

I have 17x8 fronts and 17x10 rears. I would prefer to stay away from hard compound tires, the stickier the better.... I really want to stay below a tread wear rating of 300 - 280. The more contact patch the better, but, slightly stretched sidewalls does look good and would be preffered.

Budget is limited and I heard Falken & Kumho makes good cheap tires.

Please, only experienced opinions =)

tia,nils

Post by **XCrunner19420** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Wow tires for 10 inch wheels must get expensive, maybe because its going to be a long term thing you could consider smaller wheels, i know the tires will be cheaper. Just my thoughts....

Post by **180fan** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Yeah, the falkens are pretty cheap (cheaper than bridgestone *shakes fist*) and are pretty good. With all seriousness, if you're on a budget, you might want to take XCrunner19420's suggestion and go with smaller tires. My budget tires are falkens rated 400/a/a and surprisingly the 400 isn't bad. They're pretty good and since I got them mounted on stock alloys, I got them cheap too, 220 mounted and speed balanced. Just something to consider.

Post by **NISTECH** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

movin this thread to the tires forum

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

nils, what sizes are you running, that will help whittle down the tire selection.

I assume you'd be running something like a 245-40-17 and 275-35-17 or such, in which case:

try the yokohama AVS sport, not too terribly expensive, and grip tennaciously...likewise, you could check out the AVS ES-100.

falken gr-beta tires would be your other main "low cost, good grip" tire. Im not a fan of kumho, but I have seen NITTO tire hold up nicely on some camaro SS' (the nt-555).

gimme a bit more info, or pop me an e-mil, I'll be more than glad to scour down something perfect for ya

-chet

Post by **Altiman94** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

for cheap I would definitely opt for falken azenis, especially if you like autocrossing

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Sizes please! That way we can see what's available. The Kumho Ecsta MX is a great choice for a sticky tire depending on the size.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

DO NOT buy Kumho's ... in the Austin are we've had 3 of them blow out on cars with suspension. They are absolutely crap for traction/grip too.

Sorry Grant... but Kumho will never get a dime from me.

Altiman ... why would you suggest a tire that's maximum width is a 245 when you know he has 10" rear wheels.

I'd suggest the Yokohama AVS's

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

"Altiman ... why would you suggest a tire that's maximum width is a 245 when you know he has 10" rear wheels. "

I was about to say that

Nils: for my money, check into the gr-beta and AVS series by yokohama. if you lived in GA I would hook you up

give us the sizes you wanna run bro....that will help me a bit in selection. I also am no fan of kumho....-chet

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

A) Like many tire companies. Kumho makes many different performance levels of tires from entry level to all out max performance tires.

B) Tires don't just blow out on their own. If you give us some specifics on the situation we could all make a more informed judgement. Odds are the tires were either over loaded or not the correct type of tire for the car's setup.

C) I would put the MX easily in the top three or four Max Performance tires I have tested for dry traction (and I have driven on every performance tire we sell both on the road and the track as part of my job). Check out our test results for the MX:

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?...h.jsp

Saying a brand is 'crap' is a very broad brush stroke wouldn't you say? If you buy a entry level performance tire and expect it to perform well on a car tricked out with an advanced suspension you are going to get what you pay for. If you have never driven on the Ecsta MX, reserve your opinion until you have one based on experience. The Ecsta MX out performed both the AVS ES100 and the AVS Sport both on the skid pad and on the track. Yeah, if you put those two up against an Ecsta Supra 712 there would be no contest. It is what is is, an entry level performance tire.

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

I didnt like the way the MX handled at the limit, or how it reacted to high heat stress.....

anyways, nils, both grant and I would love to hear the tire sizez, we'll have an e-mail pow-wow and see if we cant pick you out something good given both our experiences with many, many tires.

difference of opinion is good

it means you're thinking for yourself

hehe-chetalso, my tire sticky outlines my own personal favorites in many sizes. one you may want to check out(without me knowing sizes) is the Pzero nero...I havent had much experience, but form what i've seen its been a nice tire for the money.

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

thx for the replies and input guys.

I am not sure on what size I want to run, that is why I mentioned that I would like large contact patch, but, with slightly stretched sidewalls for an aggressive look. so I need suggestions on the tire sizes aswell. I want the tires to look even, meaning that the side walls look the same size on fronts and rears. I remember back in the day on my old Supra my front tires had severe stretched sidewalls while the rear tires had a flat side wall (tried to go as big as possible for traction), it looked odd.

I have been running the Kumho victoracers at track events for years and they have treated me very good, I guess some of you have had bad experiences with other Kumho tires.

When it comes to street tires I know nothing, I do remember that I liked the BF Goodrich G Force TA KD's that I tested with SCC some years ago... but I want to try something new. I also used to run S-02's a while back that I was very happy with.

I live in the desert, so wet traction is not important. Dry traction is very important. Since it never rains here oil and dust builds up on the roads and they are very slippery here even when dry.

My budget is around $500 or less for the tires. Would consider spending more if it made a 'huge' difference.. but since street tires are so slippery compared to race rubber I dont think they can make that big of a difference anyways.

Here are the options that I have considered so far:Falken GR-B FK-451BFG G-force T/A KDKumho Ecsta MXYokahama AVS sportToyo T1-SBridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole position

Now, I have not really researched prices on these tires.. so I dont know if they are out of my budget or not. I am totally open to any ideas aslong as they provide as good grip, lasts more than 6 months of daily driving and is within my budget.

open to suggestions and comments on tire choice and sizes =)

thx guys!n

Post by **Structure240sx** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

i havent had any problems with my kumho mx's for the past 2000mi and neither has my friend and he has 18's. of course i dont autocross either jsut daily driving an lil faster than most

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

What sizes are you running on these for the track setup? That would give us some sort of starting point for the street sizes. The size of the rear wheel is going to be the sticking point. The choices are very limited in 265 tires that are going to be even close to the stock O.D. (read, that will fit in the wheel wheels). We are going to need more information about your regular track setup.

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Kumho Victoracer V700's225mm x 45mm in the front255mm x 40mm in the rear

n

Post by **Structure240sx** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

i love those wheels

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

thx =)

I forgot to add some important info:H&R Wheel spacers15mm (front)5mm (rear)Nismo 60mm Wheels studsTein coilovers

n

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

With the Kumho set up I had some size play with fenders, could go bigger. Front fenders are stock and the rear are rolled.

n

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

In those sizes I would look at the following for dry traction:

BFG G Force KD $167/$245

Yokohama AVS Sports $137/$148

Bridgestone SO3 Pole Position $166/$204

Michelin Pilot Sport $174/$221

Kumho Ecsta MX $120/$129

The Kumho would be the best value in this performance range. Like the Pilot Sports and KDs they tend to cut loose when pushed too far without much warning. If you are driving on the Victoracers now you already know how they will react at the limit. For your price range they would be the best option. The Yokos are also a great tire and fairly close pricewise. That would be the second best bet.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Grant@tirerack wrote:A) Like many tire companies. Kumho makes many different performance levels of tires from entry level to all out max performance tires.

B) Tires don't just blow out on their own. If you give us some specifics on the situation we could all make a more informed judgement. Odds are the tires were either over loaded or not the correct type of tire for the car's setup.

C) I would put the MX easily in the top three or four Max Performance tires I have tested for dry traction (and I have driven on every performance tire we sell both on the road and the track as part of my job). Check out our test results for the MX:

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?...h.jsp

Saying a brand is 'crap' is a very broad brush stroke wouldn't you say? If you buy a entry level performance tire and expect it to perform well on a car tricked out with an advanced suspension you are going to get what you pay for. If you have never driven on the Ecsta MX, reserve your opinion until you have one based on experience. The Ecsta MX out performed both the AVS ES100 and the AVS Sport both on the skid pad and on the track. Yeah, if you put those two up against an Ecsta Supra 712 there would be no contest. It is what is is, an entry level performance tire.

Ok, Kumho's Ecsta MX's on a Subaru 2.5RS w/ Tein HR dampers, sways, etc.

This person is VERY anal about tire pressures and has them set to about 34 psi in the front, and 36 psi rear, warm. The car is full cornerweighted and aligned. Weighs all of ~ 2800lbs.

The tire had no bubbles or anything in it.. yet it blew out driving down a perfectly smooth road with the ambient temp about 50 degs. outside and him doing 45mph in a straight line.

These are not the tires he races on and the suspension is kept of full soft for the road. Yet the tire blew out. Not due to something on the road but ripped the tread off the sidewall.

Less than 2 months later... the same thing happened to a friends bone stock Z06 running the same tires.

And even then... month later a friends 300Z has the SAME thing happen to him while driving to Houston.

Now I've done a sustained 140mph sprint on the way to Houston for a good 2-3 miles, road raced down a local road 5 times in one night, and just gone balls to the wall with my Teins on my Falken's and I haven't had any illeffects whatsoever. Not to mention they have more grip than the MX ever will.

That's not a coincidence... that's poor quality.

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

I would shoot for the avs sports, given the pricing. Laso, the Pzero rosso is farly decntly priced at 172 for the rear, its in between the two "budget" yoks and kumhos, and would probably fare better in the high heat enviroment of a desert, and an agressive driver. I ahve yet to blister my Pzeros on the street, even with very agressive runs thorugh helens mountains, they always seems to provide good grip and gets better as they heat a bit, then stays tacky without getting slick. I Also like the more progressive feel the pirellis have lent than my old yoks or BFgoodrich tires.

for my money, it'd be the yokohamas (mostly because Im a big advan/yokohama fan, and I have many m3 owners loving their avs sports) but I personally own pirelli's....need i say more?

-chet(grant and I are discussing this in greater detail through e-mail nils, hopefully we'll get out thick heads decided on a tire for ya)

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

It looks like the Yokos are the best buy contender here. The Pirellis do give you very good consistant feel especally in transition. A bit more money but well worth it.

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Great advice guys!!

thx!

Yokos it is then....

So do you guys think I should stick to the same size as the victoracers I have been running in the past ? go wider?

tia,n

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

Here some of the available sizes in 17" incase you guy have not memorized them =)

215/45ZR17 87W225/45ZR17 90W 235/40ZR17 90W235/45ZR17 93W 245/40ZR17 91W245/45ZR17 95W 255/40ZR17 94WP255/45ZR17 92W 275/40ZR17 98WP285/40ZR17 95W

still go with 225/45ZR17 - 255/40ZR17 ?

tia,n

Post by **Grant@tirerack** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

I don't know how much wider you are going to be able to get away with. The only thing you can do is measure. The sizes you have now give you the most options in tire models anyway.

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

ok, I'll measure and see what fits.

thx for all the help everyone =)

take care,nils

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

nils, that setup should work fabulously(the 225/255 split) with your vehicle, you could on a 10" rim run the 275-40-17, but the OD would be considerably larger, and wouldnt really net you much more benifit over the 255.-chet

Post by **Nils** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

cool =)

Grant & Chet.. thx for the info, you guys have been very helpful.

n

Post by **agentxx39** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

hi grant what do you think of dunlop sp5000 for 93 Q 45 in 225/60/15

Post by **Q45tech** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 am

I tried this tire for 5,000 miles and gave them away, for use on a much lighter car. The symmetrical 5000 are not the tire the tested asyms are!AVS DB2, Michelin Pilot H4/V4, Firestone SZ50EP are proven suitable for the 90-93Q in that size.

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