Tire Shopping.. F50 Still stock at 245/45/18

[DBrown2]

I have read the Sticky in the main forum. But that gives me basic ideas of tires.

I want a Goodyear F1, or Michelin PS2 but pricing plays a big roll in my decisions. Its been 10 years since I actually bought a new set of tires, I always seem to find some new used set, or a buddy sells me a set. Something about paying 1K for tires on 18" burns me up...

What sizes have you guys played with. I still have the factory Chrome Wheels off a 05 model, mine is a 02. Current set is a Goodyear RSA set that previous owner bought.

I am looking for a good long life tire, with performance in mind.

To get more lip.. should I go 255 or 265? Should I drop the height some to a 40?

I need first hand experience, not my brothers cousin, bought some Goodyears off a nova and loves them.

Edit... What about sticking stock 245/45/18 upfront and a bigger tire in back. Sort of a Stagger just in tires... Or just a more fat tire in back..


Modified by DBrown2 at 9:15 AM 12/26/2008

[Unnatural1]

If you want long tread life forget about Goodyear F1's. http://www.tirerack.com is a good place to go. They review/rate the tires they sell and you can read customers comments about each tire. Michelin makes some long lasting tires and something in the Pilot line-up will be performance based. Also check out Kumho, Hankook, and Sumitomo, they have all been rated well at Tirerack.com.

I've found with tires you don't necessarily get what you pay for in every case. In my experience, some tire company's tires are just expensive because of the name not the quality.

[marlin29311]

Are you looking for summer tires or for all seasons?

For the all season's, the Goodyear Eagle F1 a/s are very good tires, and last for a good amount of time - however, being performance driven, they won't last as long as an RS-A or equivelent. The new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus' are also amazing, and have a treadwear rating of 500 while still being a ultra high performance tire. When you are looking a good brand tires in the sizes for your wheels, you are unfortuantly going to be paying 200-250 each tire...

[maxnix]

I am looking for a good long life tire, with performance in mind.

High wear (a hard rubber compound) and high performance are mutually exclusive. Q45tech's posts have some very interesting discussions about tire manufacturing standards, what happens to tire carcasses as they wear, and how tires age.

Are you replacing the wheels also? That is what "lip" is all about. Might check out the new Ferraris, Maseratis, MB AMG, BMW M, Audi R, etc. to see how hip lip is. Note most wheels with large lip (deep outer rim width) won't accomodate large brake rotors if you ever wish to upgrade significantly.

[maxnix]

1.) Also check out Kumho, Hankook, and Sumitomo, they have all been rated well at Tirerack.com.

2.) I've found with tires you don't necessarily get what you pay for in every case. In my experience, some tire company's tires are just expensive because of the name not the quality.

1.) These tires are 3rd tier Asian manufacturers. At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse.

2.) I would say exactly the opposite! In tires you get exactly what you pay for. The top technology costs more, but that is why it is top technology and the tire companies have to amortize their investment in that technology.

$1K for a set of first rate tires is the price one pays to play. My question for those who don't think it is worth it is, if you stop 6' shorter and stay out of someone's trunk, how much is that worth in real dollars, now and in the future?

[marlin29311]

1.) These tires are 3rd tier Asian manufacturers. At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse.

2.) I would say exactly the opposite! In tires you get exactly what you pay for. The top technology costs more, but that is why it is top technology and the tire companies have to amortize their investment in that technology.

$1K for a set of first rate tires is the price one pays to play. My question for those who don't think it is worth it is, if you stop 6' shorter and stay out of someone's trunk, how much is that worth in real dollars, now and in the future?

+1! Paying for a Michelin, Goodyear, etc is more expensive because of the vast amount of R&D they throw into their tires. Michelin's are revered as the best tire on the road, and getting the best means that you have to pay for them. I, for one, am not a fan of "cheaping" out on my tires as this is by far the most important component on your car. People spend hundreds on intakes, exhausts, upgrades, etc, but tires are often left in the dust and cheap ones are used, being regarded as "hey, they were cheap and rated good on tire rack by the guy with the civic."

Don't cheap out on your tires, you pay for it in the long run.

[DBrown2]

Thanks guys, it appears that I was on the right track with the tire choices, but no one is answering... Width and height.

Do I go 255 or 265, or go 40.. that is what I am looking for.

No I am keeping my Stock 18" Chrome Wheels, no wheel change at this time.

[maxnix]

So assuming they are 18"x8", 245/45 is where you want to be. Look at the Tire Rack mounting specifications for those tires.

[Unnatural1]

1.) These tires are 3rd tier Asian manufacturers. At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse.

2.) I would say exactly the opposite! In tires you get exactly what you pay for. The top technology costs more, but that is why it is top technology and the tire companies have to amortize their investment in that technology.

$1K for a set of first rate tires is the price one pays to play. My question for those who don't think it is worth it is, if you stop 6' shorter and stay out of someone's trunk, how much is that worth in real dollars, now and in the future?

That comment was mostly directed at the Goodyears. Michelin Pilots are plenty expensive and you get what you pay for with them. I've had lots of experience with Goodyear tires and wouldn't buy a set for my own car. For example, the RS-A's do not last and are definitely NOT the end all in performance, but you would think so if you looked at the price.

As far as "3rd Tier Asian Manufacturers" go, he said he was not wanting to spend $1000 on a set of new tires. Between a set of used tires versus a new set of Kumho's, I think I'll take the "3rd Tier" tires. If money wasn't an issue like I said I go with the Michelin Pilots as I've had good experiences with Michelins for the most part.

If you want increased width then you will want to reduce the side profile one step typically to maintain the overall tire height. If you click on "specs" for the tire you are interested in at Tirerack.com they will show the tire measures and overall height. This way you maintain your current tire height keeping your speedometer correct, etc.

Going with something as wide as 265mm may not really benefit you as far as actually increase contact patch size. Again, Tirerack.com lists the actual tire tread width and the rim width used to measure it with. If you run the tire on a rim that is narrower than the rim used to measure the tread width than the actual tread width when in stalled on your rim will be less as well. In contrast, if you use a wider rim the actual tread width will increase.

[maxnix]

For a complete line, Michelin far outshines anyone else.

I do not like Goodyear or Firestone either, but I have the F1 D3 GS (German?) on one car now for about 5K and they are doing quite well, much better than the Dunlop Direzza DZ101 they replaced, but not quite up to PS2, which seem to be pretty much in their own universe.

The Firestone SZ50 EP were another excellently (Japanese) made tire, but now sadly discontinued.

Both Goodyear and Firestone drop like rocks to slippery as snot on a hot skillet in their lesser tires, especially the R-SA. Bargain shopping at this level is usually something like "This one is not as bad as that one for the same price." There are no bargains at this level.

I personally always try to dispel the illusion that a couple of hundred dollars in the pocket is a good trade off for compromised performance on the road. I mean, this is about 1.5 hrs. of whop labor at a dealer! Why people cheap it at tires and wheels and brakes pads and rotors is just way beyond me. Assuming your suspension is right, these items are exactly what determines the dynamic performance envelope of the car, other than the drive train in acceleration and of course LSD (and other electronic helpers) in handling.

[DBrown2]

Thanks for thoughts, that is good backed up information.My search has now widen for other tires.

Yes I have used Tireracks guides, and tire choices of measurement.

I was also looking for input from you guys. So far it seems I should stay 245-45-18

[maxnix]

Best bet for fit, ride and the performance is up to your choice.

[mcrews]

Hey,hate to jump in when all the "experts' (who don't own an F50 or have ever bought tires for an F50) have already sounded off.

but here are some FACTS.1. i have 135k miles on my 02 F50. I went to the 255/45/18 Kuhmo asx at 60k miles. I am on my third set as of 2 months ago.I got almost 40 on the first set. and about 37K on the second set.by going w/ the larger size, my highway mileage has increased. I get 24+ on the road. (also no rear muffler)They are very quite, and contrary to what was said in this post, they DO NOT "At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse." that kind of 'chatroom gossip' is really not productive. unless, of course, as one of the moderators always says 'prove it with charts and graphs"If the tire was a piece of crap, it would not get the ratings on tirerack.And if you have ever bought tires from tire rack.....you ub=nderstand this.Tire rack sends uot a followup email on tire purchases a year later. you get a chance to rate your tires not just after the purchase but a year later.

So recap: the 255 is the way to go, especially if you do any freeway time. the increase in size is 3.4% and is marginal. Kuhmos are a value and not a trade off.I get at least 35k miles on the min.The tires are quite and handle well.I do rotate and check balance every 7.5K at the installer for tire rackIf there is a weakness, it would be wet handling....but pushing the limit in the rain is foolish anyway

[xerexabante]

+1 Mcrews.

Hey,hate to jump in when all the "experts' (who don't own an F50 or have ever bought tires for an F50) have already sounded off.

but here are some FACTS.1. i have 135k miles on my 02 F50. I went to the 255/45/18 Kuhmo asx at 60k miles. I am on my third set as of 2 months ago.I got almost 40 on the first set. and about 37K on the second set.by going w/ the larger size, my highway mileage has increased. I get 24+ on the road. (also no rear muffler)They are very quite, and contrary to what was said in this post, they DO NOT "At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse." that kind of 'chatroom gossip' is really not productive. unless, of course, as one of the moderators always says 'prove it with charts and graphs"If the tire was a piece of crap, it would not get the ratings on tirerack.And if you have ever bought tires from tire rack.....you ub=nderstand this.Tire rack sends uot a followup email on tire purchases a year later. you get a chance to rate your tires not just after the purchase but a year later.

So recap: the 255 is the way to go, especially if you do any freeway time. the increase in size is 3.4% and is marginal. Kuhmos are a value and not a trade off.I get at least 35k miles on the min.The tires are quite and handle well.I do rotate and check balance every 7.5K at the installer for tire rackIf there is a weakness, it would be wet handling....but pushing the limit in the rain is foolish anyway

[maxnix]

but here are some FACTS.

Like Q45tech abandoned them before 10K because they wouldn't balance anymore?

The self abuse comment applies. As does

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

As far as fitment, Tire Rack is pretty much right on, and most all of the manufacturer's website correlate exactly to their fitment recommendations.

[Unnatural1]

Like Q45tech abandoned them before 10K because they wouldn't balance anymore?

That's one persons opinion. He also changes transmissions in his car like regular maintenance.

I've installed and maintained Kumho's on many cars and I've never had this issue. In MY experience, a quality set of tires will do well if they are maintained properly; correct air pressure, good alignment, and rotation.

[maxnix]

That's one persons opinion. He also changes transmissions in his car like regular maintenance.

No, it is a documented fact.

Like Dennis says,

"Member's standards vary."

The one thing I notice in the peer reviews at Tire Rack is that no one ever changes from a premium tire like a Michelin to a Kumho or other off brand and comments what a great tire it is. Those comments are always from users who are using other inferior brands, and to which they are usually comparing worn out inferior brand to new though still inferior brand. New wins everytime. Surprise!? No!

Most people are blissfully unaware of the gradual decline in tire, shock, and brake performance. Or the increase in shift times, unless you monitor and time them like Q45tech did. Here's a news flash! Transmissions are wear items!

The fact of the matter is, 99.9% of the car owners out there are just happy to be rolling. .1% of us have higher expectations. Vive la différence !

[marlin29311]

It is all personal experience - my friend had a set of Ecsta's on his civic a little while back that he only got about 12k out of...

Hey,hate to jump in when all the "experts' (who don't own an F50 or have ever bought tires for an F50) have already sounded off.

Just because I don't own the car doesn't mean I can't make comments in regards to tires. A tire is a tire, regarless of the car it is put on. Discussion on tread design and quality is independent of specific vehicle application.

but here are some FACTS.1. i have 135k miles on my 02 F50. I went to the 255/45/18 Kuhmo asx at 60k miles. I am on my third set as of 2 months ago.I got almost 40 on the first set. and about 37K on the second set.by going w/ the larger size, my highway mileage has increased. I get 24+ on the road. (also no rear muffler)They are very quite, and contrary to what was said in this post, they DO NOT "At 5K they are severely degraded. At 10K, they are shot unless you have a high tolerance for abuse." that kind of 'chatroom gossip' is really not productive. unless, of course, as one of the moderators always says 'prove it with charts and graphs"If the tire was a piece of crap, it would not get the ratings on tirerack.And if you have ever bought tires from tire rack.....you ub=nderstand this.Tire rack sends uot a followup email on tire purchases a year later. you get a chance to rate your tires not just after the purchase but a year later.

Did you recalibrate your speedometer? If not, you're not actually getting any better gas mileage, you're just getting an false report. You're speedometer is not displaying the actual speed, and your odometer is not correct either.

Also be aware that tire rack reader reviews are done by individuals that all have different driving skills and abilities - someone may rate a tire very highly because it gets them from home to the grocery store in one piece, but it might be a terrible tire for anything else. Just like you said, it's "chatroom gossip" as it is the same people as you and I posting their own opinions on tires. Tirerack user reviews rated my current tires as decent, but IMHO, they're flaming bags of dog crap.

The Tirerack test ratings (the ones done by their experts) are generally good - but they don't always have ones for every tire.

[Rex]

The idea of keeping "performance tires" on a >4k lb car for more than 10-15k miles baffles me.

If you're shopping for a quiet tire ask people that are concerned about noise.

If you're shopping for a "lasts long" tire, ask people that try to get 40-60k miles out of a set of tires.

If you're shopping for a performance tire, ask some guys that drive a true sports coupe and see if you can find a fit for your car.

If you're shopping for a "low cost tire" ask the guy at the tire shop what's the cheapest tire you can put on the car.

Same things apply to winter tires (Michigan??), rain tires (Seattle??), etc.

I've run Yoko AVS ES100's for ~10k miles and have been pleased. They're horrible in the snow, average in the rain and noisy all the time, but they offer a good mix of normal driving performance, wear and meet the load ratings for the car(s) I've had them on over the last 2 years. I'll be replacing the wheels and tires in the next month or so, but I'm sure there's several people that would gladly use the tires for another 15-20k miles.

It's all about what you want and what you're willing to pay to achieve it.

[Window45]

i have my Bf goodyear tires.. i love them i got the whide white letters.. lol looks clean actually. added my dual exhaust.. put my white letters on ... still only have 17's chrome, from factory.. but it gave my car a real agressive look, along with the deep deep growl it's got

[DBrown2]

Windows45... I sure hope you mean that as a joke, cause I have spent 5 minutes laughing in my office over those comments.

[maxnix]

Also be aware that tire rack reader reviews are done by individuals that all have different driving skills and abilities - ....it is the same people as you and I posting their own opinions on tires. Tirerack user reviews rated my current tires as decent, but IMHO, they're flaming bags of dog crap.

The Tirerack test ratings (the ones done by their experts) are generally good - but they don't always have ones for every tire.

Yep, peer reviews need to be vetted by assessment of the state of the hoi polloi. As I alluded above, owners come with different biases from different experiences.

TR essentially only reviews top performers. Why review mid level tires for happy-just-to-be-rolling types?

[Q45tech]

Using a common name like RSA is designed to confuse, as the internal design varies by size and grades/prices................number of belts. plies, type of materials.etc.

Saying RSA are all bad shows lack of experience with RSA [or HP41 Firestone] Police Tires in very limited sizes. There must be 25 different tires with the same RSA name, yet none of them the same. Many ar garbage, most are adequate, and a few are very superior.

Michelin learned how to create light weight superior strength without using Nylon...................sure it cost a few dollars more [<$5 per tire] to manufacturer but they make retailers rich with MSRP.

"Despite these cutbacks, Michelin still intends to invest 3.6 percent of the company’s revenue in technological research and development — which is more than either of its closest tyre manufacturing rivals, Japanese firm Bridgestone and American giant Goodyear, who invest three percent and 1.8 percent respectively. "

"The higher prices reflect Michelin tires' longer life and better gas mileage, Vialle said.

''All things considered, the overall cost of a Michelin tire is still lower than those of its competitors,'' he said...............The French maker's tires are as much as 15 percent more expensive than Bridgestone products."

[maxnix]

One might reflect that the last two tire manufacturers left standing in F1 before F1 decided on a sole source were Bridgestone and Michelin.

[qship96]

i have my Bf goodyear tires.. i love them i got the whide white letters.. lol looks clean actually. added my dual exhaust.. put my white letters on ... still only have 17's chrome, from factory.. but it gave my car a real agressive look, along with the deep deep growl it's got

[Infinitiguy19]

i have my Bf Goodyear tires.. i love them i got the whide white letters.. lol looks clean actually. added my dual exhaust.. put my white letters on ... still only have 17's chrome, from factory.. but it gave my car a real aggressive look, along with the deep deep growl it's got

Can I see pictures Please, Seriously.

[maxnix]

Can I see pictures Please, Seriously.

Hey, this is a family friendly forum!

[StarPD]

No, it is a documented fact.

Like Dennis says,

"Member's standards vary."

The one thing I notice in the peer reviews at Tire Rack is that no one ever changes from a premium tire like a Michelin to a Kumho or other off brand and comments what a great tire it is. Those comments are always from users who are using other inferior brands, and to which they are usually comparing worn out inferior brand to new though still inferior brand. New wins everytime. Surprise!? No!

Most people are blissfully unaware of the gradual decline in tire, shock, and brake performance. Or the increase in shift times, unless you monitor and time them like Q45tech did. Here's a news flash! Transmissions are wear items!

The fact of the matter is, 99.9% of the car owners out there are just happy to be rolling. .1% of us have higher expectations. Vive la différence !

Brian is absolutely correct. Not many drivers have the tactile ability to feel the difference in a truly good tire in the first place. Why then should they be able to discern the degradation in handling and performance as the tire ages, where tread depth changes and age alters the composition? The fact is that not many drivers, even among Q45 owners can even feel what tires are doing when pressed, much less actually take tires to their limit safely. Determining whether tires are "good" is actually beyond most drivers.

As a sidenote, note that TR tests their tires on short light cars like BMW 318, which also don't even have the power to weight ratios of the considerably heavier Q45 and similar cars. Further, they have comparatively firmer suspensions. While TR's test and evaluations have merit, they cannot be taken as Gospel, especially when looking for tires for a 4250 lb performance luxury car. Every car has different chassis dynamics. Trying to apply test results and evaluations of one car to a completely different one is futile. Considering that no one can test every tire on every car, the best we can hope to do is buy tires that are reputed to have a good rep for R&D, performance, and overall quality. Then, if we like them, buy 'em again; if not try something else.

Case in point:I drive an '05 Q45 with 18 x 8" wheels, correct offset. It has 245/45Z18 W100 Bridgestone RE050A "Pole Position" tires. TR evaluations rate it almost dead even against the Michelin PS2 (on BMW 318s). I can assure you, that unless the PS2 suffers from mediocre design, it's considerably better than the Bridgestone. Now, maybe on a BMW 318 they might be very close, but the Bridgestones on my '05 Q are no better than the Yoko AVS DB2 I had on my '94 Q45t. Interestingly enough, although my Bridgestones have a UTG of only 140, I now have over 15K on them and there appears to be approximately half or more of the tread left. Go figure!

FWIW, when the Bridgestones wear out, I intend to replace them with PS2s.

[qship96]

George, whats the status of your handling issues you were chasing down?Also wondering if your oil consumption has changed since you thought your long trip a few months ago my have "seated the rings"??? We need an update!!!!

[StarPD]

George, whats the status of your handling issues you were chasing down?Also wondering if your oil consumption has changed since you thought your long trip a few months ago my have "seated the rings"??? We need an update!!!!

Hi Qship.After I came back from my trip, went in for a routine annual physical. Ended up needing a triple bypass, done Sept 2, then had post-op complications and developed sciatica, which made the exercise so necesary to healing very difficult. Just now starting to get on the mend. That's why you haven't seen much of me lately.

Still intending to pursue the understeer issue, although for some strange reason, the complete wheel alignment done by the dealer after the trip and setting tire pressures to 35 PSI cold F&R seem to have mitigated the problem. I'll chase it down when I'm healed a little more, but it looks like that might be another 6 months or so.

Car is undergoing an oil consumption test by the dealer right now. I WILL report on both of these issues as soon as I have some good answers. It'll be interesting.