Tire Pressure Monitoring System TPMS

[EXceptional]

Now that Winter is winding down... and Spring/Summer is coming on...

What is everybody doing about their Winter to Summer Wheel swaps?

For those of you that have TPMS Sensors in both sets, what do you do after they are swapped out?

Did you have a Dealer initially re-learn them?

Do you have a Reset Tool or access to one?

[ybe4094]

Just use the following procedure. No reset tool is necessary.
http://myg37.com/forums/d-i-y-installat ... -free.html

[CDNicecube]

Well, I purchase this March the ATEQ Quickset tool to do just that. However, I am having problems with it. So I had to get the dealer to install my summer tires and rims last week because this tool will only pull out from the ECU the sensor codes, not read it directly from the rims. So i pulled out the winter rims code the week before (no problem).

This week the dealer installed the summer rims and reprogrammed the TPMS. Yet, when i tried to pull out the summer rim code that the dealer programmed in the ECU, I got the same as the winter codes. Long story short, i am having problems with the ATEQ tool. As soon as I figure it out, i will let you know. I know I am missing a step but does not know what I am doing wrong (the same issue arises with my Honda code).

[EXceptional]

I found a Kal-Tire in Edmonton that charges $49.99 to re-learn the TPMS's.

Is this something I have to do, every Tire-swap... or just once?

I'm gonna re-read that Link a few times, also.

[CDNicecube]

You'll need to do this everytime you swap tires. Our ECU does not store more than 4 codes at once, and unlike some US-made cars, there is no simple way to make it learn new codes. The codes need to be entered each time (altough the link to the other tread above seems to indicate that you can place it in a learning mode - I have not tried it).

How our governments (Canada and US) ever implemented this policy wihout forcing automakers to make the relearning as simple as pressing a button (like some american car companies), I will never figure out. I guess automakers realised this was a money making proposition and acted accordingly.

Using your quote:

$49.99 + HST = $55.99 x twice a year =$111.97 per year. I have two cars that requires reprogramming (Honda) so this is $224 per year! or a 1119.90 for 5 years! Ouch!

The ATEQ tool, if it works, was $169 CND.

BTW The infiniti dearler in Ottawa did mine this year for 35$ but I was also doing an oil change as well.

I'll have to focus on solving the issues I am having with the ATEQ tool and I will get back to you on this,

[ybe4094]

Please just follow the procedure in the provided link. I've done it twice already on my 2010 EX35. It is very simple, all you need to do is pump the tires to the required pressure, activate the TPMS learn mode by grounding the specified connector 5-6 times and drive for about 5-10 minutes.

[CDNicecube]

Will do so if it does not work next fall. So far, the dealer reprogrammed the system so there is no need to do so at this point. But for others, go ahead and let us know.

[EXceptional]

ybe4904... Could you take some pictures of the EX35 Dash and Connector, so that people can relate your Link to what we have to do on our cars?

I'm just trying to make sure, all the info is here for everyone to understand.

I appreciate it, man!

[EXceptional]

After a lot of research, I just bought 4 Pirelli Winter 210 Sottozero's in a P225/55/18 Size.

I wanted Tires that could be rotated in a "X" fashion and had mostly favorable reviews on TireRack.com

4 of them, shipped to me in Alberta Canada, cost $889.00 in US funds... and then converted to CAD funds, they drop down to $847.00... all because our Dollar is doing better than the US one right now.

I recently bought 4 brand-new NISSAN Ultima 18x8 Rims off eBay for $600.00 delivered to me in Alberta, Canada, from Florida, USA.

I also picked up four used Infiniti Center Caps off eBay for $40.00 total. I got them a week ago.

I also picked up 4 brand-new TPMS's off AMAZON.com for $35.00 each. I just got them today.

I don't need to put on these Winter Tires, until Fall... but at least I have everything now and I'll be ready when the time comes.

I bought everything on my terms and at a great price... and everything was In-stock when I wanted it.

A lot of places here locally and on the Internet, aren't stocking Winter Tires anymore. They've moved on to the Summer lines.

[CDNicecube]

Indeed, ybe4904, if you could post a picture this would be great. I am having problems with the ATEQ tool and this would be an alternative to this solution...Thanks ybe4904.

[alloveru]

CDNicecube... did you get your winter tires in Ottawa? what size did you end up using?

[EXceptional]

Let me help you...

I got 4 Hankook I Pike RW11 225/55 R18. I already had rims and tpms sensors.

I had these Hankook on since since December 15 2010. It is now March 14. We had many snow and ice storms, and all that crap we get up here in Canada. I've driven on ice, slush, and 10" of snow (packed and unpacked). Drove about 5000k (3000 miles) on the Hankook .

I can tell you they are great. They are not very noisy - about the same as the OEMs. They wear well and as they wear, they seems to be even less noisy and better on ice. Now, of course, this is my first AWD car so I can't compared other tires and perhaps the performance is mostly AWD but I can turn and stop very well with the Hankook.

FYI I got them shipped for a grand total of $688.04 C$ from http://www.tires-easy.ca (tires ONLY). Each tire was $117.18 C$, incl. taxes.

They seem to be located in the USA. (i am in Canada and they shipped here).
Supplying business: Delticom North America
1306 NW Hoyt St., Ste. 304, Portland, OR 97209

Good luck

[alloveru]

Thanks EXceptional!

[EXceptional]

My new Pirelli's are on the move...

Apr 21, 2011 at 07:00 PM BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED
Apr 21, 2011 at 07:50 PM ORIGIN SCAN SPARKS, NV
Apr 21, 2011 at 10:36 PM DEPARTURE SCAN SPARKS, NV
Apr 22, 2011 at 08:20 AM ARRIVAL SCAN ROSEBURG, OR
Apr 22, 2011 at 08:43 AM DEPARTURE SCAN ROSEBURG, OR
Apr 22, 2011 at 01:09 PM ARRIVAL SCAN PORTLAND, OR
Apr 24, 2011 at 01:29 PM LOCATION SCAN PORTLAND, OR
Apr 24, 2011 at 01:29 PM LOCATION SCAN PORTLAND, OR
Apr 25, 2011 at 02:22 PM IMPORT SCAN RICHMOND, BC
Apr 25, 2011 at 06:41 PM LOCATION SCAN RICHMOND, BC
Apr 26, 2011 at 02:35 AM DEPARTURE SCAN RICHMOND, BC
Apr 26, 2011 at 02:36 AM IN TRANSIT TO EDMONTON, AB
Apr 27, 2011 at 04:25 AM ARRIVAL SCAN EDMONTON, AB
Apr 27, 2011 at 07:00 AM OUT FOR DELIVERY EDMONTON, AB
Apr 27, 2011 at 05:09 PM DELIVERED SHERWOOD PARK, CA

They're here !

[EXceptional]

Overall the experience was a good one, however... i checked the DOT Date Stamp... and my 4 new(?) Tires have a Date of 34-08

According to TireRack.com...

Tires are manufactured by bonding rubber to fabric plies and steel cords. And despite the anti-aging ingredients mixed into the rubber compounds, there is a realization that tires are perishable, as well as a growing awareness that some tires will actually age out before their treads will wear out.

For the most part today's tires deliver more miles and years of service than ever before. In the 1970s, typical bias ply tires lasted less than 20,000 miles and were only expected to be in service for about two years. In the 1980s, early radial ply tires offered a treadwear expectancy of about 40,000 miles during four years of service. And by the turn of the century, many long-life radial tires extended treadwear to about 60,000 miles during four or more years of service. While passenger car and light truck tire technology and American driving conditions in the past resulted in tire treads wearing out before the rest of the tire aged, it may not always be true of today's even longer lasting tires that are approaching 80,000 miles of treadwear.

How many years will tires last before aging out? Unfortunately it's impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone.

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and tire manufacturers are currently studying the many variables. Exposure to the elements (sun and atmospheric), regularity of use (frequent or only occasional) and the quality of care (maintaining proper inflation pressure, wheel alignment, etc.) will all influence the answer. So while tire life depends on the service conditions and the environment in which they operate, the difficult task remains how to identify all of the variables that influence a tire's calendar age and attempt to quantify their influence.

The current industry association recommendations regarding inspecting and replacing tires due to age originate outside the United States.

The British Rubber Manufacturers Association (BRMA) recommended practice issued June, 2001, states "BRMA members strongly recommend that unused tyres should not be put into service if they are over six years old and that all tyres should be replaced ten years from the date of their manufacture."

"Environmental conditions like exposure to sunlight and coastal climates, as well as poor storage and infrequent use, accelerate the aging process. In ideal conditions, a tyre may have a life expectancy that exceeds ten years from its date of manufacture. However, such conditions are rare. Aging may not exhibit any external indications and, since there is no non-destructive test to assess the serviceability of a tyre, even an inspection carried out by a tyre expert may not reveal the extent of any deterioration."

More recently, The Japan Automobile Tire Manufacturers Association (JATMA) recommended practice issued May, 2005, states "customers are encouraged to have their vehicle tires promptly inspected after five years of use to determine if the tires can continue to be used (recommends spare tires be inspected as well). Furthermore, even when the tires look usable, it is recommended that all tires (including spare tires) that were made more than ten years ago be replaced with new tires. Additionally, because in some cases automobile makers--based on the characteristics of the relevant vehicle--stipulate in the owner's manual the timing of tire inspection and replacement. Please read and confirm the content of the owner's manual."

Several European vehicle manufacturers of high performance sports cars, coupes and sedans identify that "under no circumstances should tires older than 6 years be used" in their vehicle owner's manual. However, it should be noted that European recommendations must include driving conditions that include roads like the German Autobahn, which allows vehicles to be legally driven at their top speeds for extended periods of time.

While American driving conditions don't include the high-speed challenges of the German Autobahn, Chrysler and Ford Motor Company joined their European colleagues in 2005 by recommending that tires installed as Original Equipment be replaced after six years of service. (General Motors declined to offer a recommendation until a more scientific analysis of driving conditions and tire aging could be completed).

It is important to take into account Original Equipment tires are mounted on wheels and put into service right after being received by vehicle manufacturers, so their calendar age begins immediately. However the same cannot be said of tires properly stored in a tire manufacturers' warehouse or in Tire Rack distribution centers before they go into service. Properly stored tires that are protected from the elements and not mounted on a wheel age very slowly before they are mounted and put into service.

Our experience has been that when properly stored and cared for, most street tires have a useful life in service of between six to ten years. And while part of that time is spent as the tire travels from the manufacturing plant to the manufacturer's distribution center, to the retailer and to you, the remainder is the time it spends on your vehicle.

While most drivers' past experience might not indicate it's necessary, the growing realization that tires are perishable means tires on some vehicles will possibly age out before they wear out. Composed of steel belts, fabric plies and rubber compounds, the structural integrity of tires can degrade over an extended period of time as the result of chemical reaction within the rubber components, cyclic fatigue, abuse and road hazards.

Tire aging isn't typically an issue with vehicles driven frequently, however the lower annual mileages put on sporadically used motor homes, enthusiast vehicles driven for pleasure and collector cars trailered to events could make tire calendar age an important consideration. Tire age is also a concern for the often unused spare tire in a car's trunk, suspended under a pickup's cargo bed or hung off the back of an SUV.

Unfortunately no one is absolutely sure of how long tires will last because of the many variables. Heavily loaded tires on vehicles stored outdoors in sunny, scorching hot climates and only driven occasionally face some of the most severe service conditions and potentially have the shortest calendar lifespan. In contrast, lightly loaded tires on vehicles parked in garages and driven daily in moderate climates experience some of the least severe service conditions and potentially have the longest lifespan.

Then there is the influence of how well drivers maintain their tires (regular cleaning and pressure checks along with periodic rotations and wheel alignments), use and/or abuse them (drive on them when overloaded or underinflated), as well as the possibility of irreversible damage from punctures, cuts and impacts with potholes, curbs and other road hazards. A tire's original durability will be permanently compromised if it is uncared for, abused or damaged.

Therefore every tire's life expectancy ultimately depends on the environment in which it operates and its individual service conditions. The difficult task remains how to attempt to quantify tire life based on calendar age. Arbitrarily replacing tires prematurely based simply on age may result in tires being discarded before their time, contributing to increased operating costs, as well as waste disposal and recycling concerns.

Since Tire Rack sells tires manufactured in North and South America, as well as Europe, Africa and Asia, it's common for us to receive new tires directly from manufacturers that are already six to nine months old. Since we rotate our inventory, most of the tires we ship are less than a year old.

However some low volume tires in sizes for limited production vehicles can only be efficiently manufactured periodically where one short production run may produce more than a year's worth of global supply. In some of these cases, Tire Rack might receive new tires directly from the manufacturer that are already several years old.

There are also some occasions where we work with a tire manufacturer to help them clear out their inventory when they discontinue a tire line. While this may uncover some new tires that are several years old, these clearance tires are typically offered at a discount and will wear out before they age out.

Tires are stocked in Tire Rack distribution centers under favorable storage conditions. Protected from exposure to direct sunlight, moisture and hot and cold temperature extremes, our inventory leads a sheltered life compared to the tires mounted on wheels, installed on vehicles and exposed to the elements, road grime and brake dust.

Tire manufacturer's replacement tire warranties begin when the tires are purchased and typically last 4 to 6 years from that date. This allows the tire manufacturers' limited warranty to accommodate the time it takes tires to be shipped from the manufacturing plant to the warehouse or distribution center, to the retailer and to the consumer, as well as the time they spend in-service on the vehicle.

Keeping tires properly inflated is probably the most significant action a driver can take to prevent tire failure. For example, driving a vehicle with a significantly underinflated tire can permanently damage the tire's internal structure in ways invisible to external visual inspections. A U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) tire aging field study revealed that 30 percent of spare tires observed were significantly underinflated when first checked, Putting underinflated spare tires into service before being properly inflated would greatly increase their risk of catastrophic tire failure. The inflation pressure of spare tires should be checked monthly along with the rest of the set.

Vehicles equipped with a full-size matching wheel and spare tire should use the vehicle's five-tire pattern at every tire rotation. Not only will this prevent the spare tire from sitting idle, it will keep all five tires' tread depths roughly equivalent throughout their life and extend the tire replacement intervals (if rotating four tires would result in 40,000 miles of service, including the full-size matching wheel and spare tire into the rotation pattern would result in 50,000 mile replacement intervals).

The NHTSA tire aging field study also indicated a strong correlation of the speed rating with tire durability, with higher speed-rated tires losing the least capability with increasing calendar age. Drivers living in hot climates may want to consider purchasing higher speed rated tires than those that came as Original Equipment.

Our experience has been that when properly stored and cared for, most street tires have a useful life in service of between six to ten years. And while part of that time is spent as the tire travels from the manufacturing plant to the manufacturer's distribution center, to the retailer and to you, the remainder is the time it spends on your vehicle.

[EXceptional]

Dear Sir,

Thanks for your email. Unfortunately dedicated snow tires are manufactured and sold in much smaller quantities than "all season" tires, which often leads to inventory remaining at the manufacturer's warehouse longer than one would hope. Pirelli's warranty against defects starts from the date of installation, so you are protected regardless of the manufacture date. Speaking from personal experience, the three vehicles I equip with snow tires are currently on tires manufactured over six years ago and the tires look great. The best thing you can do is place the tires in plastic bags and keep them away for direct sunlight and high temperatures (better to store in a basement than an attic, for example) to minimize any age related issues. Hope this helps !

If you have any other questions, please contact me directly.

Best Regards,

TireRack

[ArcticBlue]

Well, that is certainly a plethora of non-information, isn't it ! My conclusion is, tires will be shot when they are shot, and "too bad if the tires we sold you have been sitting on our shelf unsold for years, but you are sucking wind."
Nice folks, they are! NOT!

[EXceptional]

I was concerned that my Tires sold to me are dated 2008... but they look in really good shape.

What am I going to do... send them back ?

[ArcticBlue]

Not being a tire engineer, I surely don't have a definitive opinion, but I doubt there is a problem at hand. My "collector car" has nine-year old tires with less than 5000 miles on them, and I have no qualms about driving it in a relatively spirited fashion from time to time. No doubt tires sitting in the Arizona sun deteriorate more rapidly than seasonal tires stored in a relatively cool environment out of the sunlight, so I have every confidence you can look forward to good use of your tires for years to come. Don't worry - be happy!

[EXceptional]

All ready to go, for next Winter...

[lowbeez]

.......I also picked up 4 brand-new TPMS's off AMAZON.com for $35.00 each.........

Hi ECxeptional, do you have the part numbers for the sensors you picked up from Amazon ?

To all members, I think Infiniti changed sensors in the middle of MY2010 so the sensors used in vehicle manufactured before Mar 30, 2010 and after that date are different...anyone have the OE part number for the sensors that are installed in the vehicle manufactured before Mar 30 ,2010 ?

Thanks for your help....

[EXceptional]

These are the ones I ordered...

http://www.amazon.com/Orange-Electronic ... &carId=001

Now be warned... I won't officially know for sure that they work, until I swap the Wheels over this coming Fall.

They fit the Rims well and the way the Valve Stem connects to TPMS Body, it conforms to the Rim shape and should be out of the way of any Tire Installation Process.

[Mephisto75]

Indeed, ybe4904, if you could post a picture this would be great. I am having problems with the ATEQ tool and this would be an alternative to this solution...Thanks ybe4904.

CDNicecube do u got something new on the ATEQ tool ?
I bought one almost a year ago but couldn't even readout the oem sensors.
I prety much have the feeling that this tool is crap and a waste of $150.
For some reason Tirerack (where I bought that tool from) doen't have them anymore!

[CDNicecube]

Indeed it is frustrating as others say the tools works perfectly on other models (Subary, etc...).

It seems that the ATEQ tool can't read OEM sensors code entered in the car's computer (ECU) by the dealer, but can read aftermarket ones just fine. Indeed, I was able to read my aftermarket winter wheels' tpms sensors for both my Honda (Odyssey - 2007) and my Infiniti (EX35 -2010), but not the OEM sensors: the exact same codes as the winter ones are being "returned" to me when I try to read the OEM summer wheels sensor codes via the ATEQ tool via the car's ECU. ATEQ support can't explain why this is.

Plan A - Over the next few months, I plan to stop at a professional tire store and have them read the OEM sensor code with a reader that reads the codes directly by being placed next to the tire rims (not via the car's ECU).

Come next fall, I will try to push the aftermarket codes I was able to retrieve from the ATEQ tool into the ECU and hopefully this will work.
Next spring, when I go back to the summer wheels, I will try to "push" into the Infiniti (and Honda) the OEM codes read by the tire store using the ATEQ tool.

I am hopeful this will work.

Plan B - I will try to use the other way to reset the TPMS system explained on this forum.

I also hope that ATEQ will update the software to make it compatible. I am running a version 3 "beta" software that came with the tool, with no luck. I tried to use the version 2.xxx.51 that is on their site, no luck either. Oddly, the version 3 does not liste the EX35 but the older version 2.xxx.51 does. ATEQ tells me I can use the FX35 and it will work also.

[CDNicecube]

UPDATE on the ATEQ tool

I edited the previous message and I stand corrected: ATEQ has been very helpful in finding why I could not, apparently, read the TPMS ID sensor code with their ATEQ QuickSet tool out of our EX ECU. Bruno from ATEQ Canada has been of tremendous help.

Cole's Notes:
Success! (And the ATEQ tool works on Infinitis: I can pull out IDs and "push them back in" the car's ECU. However, I do not need to do so anymore - please read explanation below.

Explanation:
You will recall that I purchase the ATEQ Quickset tool in order to program myself the TPMS sensor on my Honda and Infiniti. The issue explained in the post above is that the ATEQ Quickset tool was "reading" from the EX ECU the same winter AND summer ID codes. I expected to obtain different codes, as they are different wheels with different TPMS sensors.

It turns out that I bought 4 "Orange Electronic" brand TPMS sensors from Canadian Tire, which they install on my winter rims when they installed my winter tires . They are programmable, which I did not know. Canadian Tire programmed the sensors to "emit" the exact same codes as my summer wheels (OEM). Nice, no?

This means I can now swap winter and summer wheels without worrying about reprogramming the IDs, since they are the same! I can confirm this because in an attempt to troubleshoot this, ATEQ sent me their VT30 tool which reads the sensor ID directly from the sensors themselves (you place the VT30 against the tires' sidewall - bypassing the ECU altogether). With the VT30 tool, I read the codes off my 8 wheels and I got 2 sets of (only) 4 codes (winter vs. Summer). My winter and summer codes are indeed the same!

From Canadian Tire's site: "For Asian vehicles, Orange Electronics offers a unique programmable sensor system (OPSS) that updates the sensor, eliminating complicated or expensive vehicle updates to the vehicle TPMS receiver".

So for all of you out there who wants to maintain their TPMS systems when swapping and do not want to worry about expensive reprograms, get yourself the Orange Electronic branded TPMS sensors. These are NOT sold at the dealerships (they want you to come in twice a year and pay for reprograms!). Get you preferred aftermarket expert to program them to the same codes as the OEM and there you go! You are set. Nice new option for all of us.

(Lastly, I bought sensors from the Honda dealership for my other car and they require the ATEQ Quickset to "push" the codes in when swapping tires. But at least I have the ATEQ Quickset to do so without going to the dealership. At 40$ per swap, I will have it paid off in 2 years....)

Cheers all

[EXceptional]

Cool... thats what I bought for my Winter Wheels.

[CDNicecube]

You are set, then, EXceptional.

Just tell your CT to read the OEM codes and program the Orange sensors with the exact codes that are currently in your car's ECU. One last thing, the wheel's location on the car does not matter, just the codes. You can rotate wheels as desired.

Happy motoring WITHOUT the TPMS light on!

PS: It would be nice if car manufacturers would sell OEM "programmable" tpms sensors, or allow the car ECU to "hold" 8 or more different sensor ids. Infiniti and Honda both told me that "you must used our sensors at $120/unit and come twice a year @ $40 per visit because we are the only one who can program these". It pisses me off being lied to, and then taken for a ride. I shall remember that, Honda and Infiniti

PPS. The Orange Electronic TPMS sensors costed me $44 each.

[EXceptional]

Thanks for the tips...

I found 4 brand-new TPMS's off AMAZON.com for $35.00 each, with free Shipping (free Shipping in US only) I had a friend ship them to me, as AMAZON does NOT ship Car Parts to Canada.

I definitely wanted NEW ones... so I can be assured that their Battery Life was (in my mind) like new.

[canuck99]

You are set, then, EXceptional.

Just tell your CT to read the OEM codes and program the Orange sensors with the exact codes that are currently in your car's ECU. One last thing, the wheel's location on the car does not matter, just the codes. You can rotate wheels as desired.

Happy motoring WITHOUT the TPMS light on!

PS: It would be nice if car manufacturers would sell OEM "programmable" tpms sensors, or allow the car ECU to "hold" 8 or more different sensor ids. Infiniti and Honda both told me that "you must used our sensors at $120/unit and come twice a year @ $40 per visit because we are the only one who can program these". It pisses me off being lied to, and then taken for a ride. I shall remember that, Honda and Infiniti

PPS. The Orange Electronic TPMS sensors costed me $44 each.

Great info. What did CT charge you for the programming? Did you have to get tires from them too?

[CDNicecube]

They charged me 20$ but this was alongside the cost of mounting and balancing the winter tires on the rims. Well worth it also.