Timing Guide & Royal Purple
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JT_MONEY_2004
- Posts: 409
- Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:14 pm
- Car: 1990 Q45, Pearl
Timing Guide & Royal Purple
OK, this is my 2nd Q, both 90's. Both were bought used and i have no idea weather or not the timing guides were replaced. The first had about 165k when i sold it. This new one has about 73k on dash, but on the ride home from dealer i found out the odometer has a problem, it works sometimes, so the mileage isn't exactly accurate. However, i'm sitting here today and thinking about the guides and how to circumvent or delay the problem. I simply dont have that type of money now to do the job. From what i understand, the problem it that the timing chain "chew" the plastic and they break. So i'm thinking if i use a very good/slick/durable oil like Royal purple it may allow less friction between the chain and guides and prolong it's life. Is this wishful thinking??? I called a dealer in ATL, and spk to a service tech about the guide problem some wks ago and he told me, The cars that experience that problem are those that get poor oil changes, any truth to that?Do these guides typically break around a certain mileage or what?Thanks for any feedback!!
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
At 165k your at boirrowed time already.. Jesda with a 92 Q waited what I thought way too long, at 185k... It really varies but it seems around 120k-180k.... Jesda's Q was running perfect and his could have slipped any time.....
T3 is in atlanta georgia, and they'll hook you up with $1000 guides done, if theres no pieces in the pan..... Hopefully that is the case., because that will add another $500 or so...
IMO your already overdue.....
T3 is in atlanta georgia, and they'll hook you up with $1000 guides done, if theres no pieces in the pan..... Hopefully that is the case., because that will add another $500 or so...
IMO your already overdue.....
Wear on the guides has very little to do with them breaking. Age, temperature and fatigue are the primary causes IMO and could be accelerated by poor maintenance I guess. The guide pieces that came out of my oil pan have very little actual wear on them..maybe < .1"? They were recovered at 190k. Also saw guides with 180k, still intact, with about as much wear.http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....12551
Damn!!!No wonder you are a Q fanatic you have been with them since day one.
Well I am the one who bought the other Q with 167,000 on it.
Also as per previous posts I am investigating on whether to try to fix my current engine (blue smoke) or am I looking at putting another engine in it.
I love the Q, and dont get me wrong the car runs like a prize horse.
I believe JT's question is whether or not using the royal purple will extend his time frame on getting the guides replaced.
I would also like to know if anyone has used it and what has been their experience on it.
Well I am the one who bought the other Q with 167,000 on it.
Also as per previous posts I am investigating on whether to try to fix my current engine (blue smoke) or am I looking at putting another engine in it.
I love the Q, and dont get me wrong the car runs like a prize horse.
I believe JT's question is whether or not using the royal purple will extend his time frame on getting the guides replaced.
I would also like to know if anyone has used it and what has been their experience on it.
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:52 pm
- Car: 94 Infiniti Q45t 5 spd
2007 BMW M Coupe
2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
- Contact:
This is the way I see about oil additives... There are a few (and I mean literally like 3) that I would use, and 2 of those are for right before an oil change......
If it was so good, why wouldnt they just put it in the oil to begin with.....? if it makes the oil "slicker" why wouldnt they put it in there..... Something cheap like that to increase lubrication qualities would be a no brainer for the oil companies..... IF IT didnt have some side effects on longevity, etc....
Pito, honestly I think that you should look inot a new engine... I would be ALL over the T3 swap...
If it was so good, why wouldnt they just put it in the oil to begin with.....? if it makes the oil "slicker" why wouldnt they put it in there..... Something cheap like that to increase lubrication qualities would be a no brainer for the oil companies..... IF IT didnt have some side effects on longevity, etc....
Pito, honestly I think that you should look inot a new engine... I would be ALL over the T3 swap...
Well it would be nice to drive into T3 and say hey can you put that engine in my car.
But in order for me to be all over the T3 deal I would need for $4000 to be all over me.
By the way, honestly if I had that kind of money I would sell the Q for the little extra and get a lower mileage car period. I might even sell out and get the grilled 94.
But in order for me to be all over the T3 deal I would need for $4000 to be all over me.
By the way, honestly if I had that kind of money I would sell the Q for the little extra and get a lower mileage car period. I might even sell out and get the grilled 94.
elwesso wrote:This is the way I see about oil additives... There are a few (and I mean literally like 3) that I would use, and 2 of those are for right before an oil change......
If it was so good, why wouldnt they just put it in the oil to begin with.....? if it makes the oil "slicker" why wouldnt they put it in there..... Something cheap like that to increase lubrication qualities would be a no brainer for the oil companies..... IF IT didnt have some side effects on longevity, etc....
Pito, honestly I think that you should look inot a new engine... I would be ALL over the T3 swap...
I was under the assumption that royal purple was a synthetic oil not an additive.
Also there is nothing CHEAP about royal purple.
No, they break first- then MAYBE get chewed up (or the engine self destructs a few milliseconds after the chain slips)
it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict if royal purple will give you one extra mile over what you'd get without.
Mine were cracked at 170k. Probably had been broken for prior 20k at least. Pieces were still pretty much in place, but out of alignmnet and ground down. I'd owned it since it had 14 miles on the odo.
Rationalize all you want- I don't think it is possible to predict when they will fail, or what to do to slow the process...
Ard
it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict if royal purple will give you one extra mile over what you'd get without.
Mine were cracked at 170k. Probably had been broken for prior 20k at least. Pieces were still pretty much in place, but out of alignmnet and ground down. I'd owned it since it had 14 miles on the odo.
Rationalize all you want- I don't think it is possible to predict when they will fail, or what to do to slow the process...
Ard
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
As lots of oil tests [G35 guys are the new fanatics] are now showing even the best synthetics cannot take much beyond 5,000-5,500 miles in street driving [daily 3-4-6 cranks] due mostly to the small volume designs [4-5-6 quarts] and small oil filters used on Nissans.
Notice the new G comes with an integral oil cooler/heater [uses hot coolant to help oil stay below 212F] and they still recommend 90 day changes for maximum engine life.
Not sure any oil will be protective against the heat cold cycling effects on plastic.
Please get the guides checked/changed at $1000 it is just to risky to pray that a failure doesn't happen.
Notice the new G comes with an integral oil cooler/heater [uses hot coolant to help oil stay below 212F] and they still recommend 90 day changes for maximum engine life.
Not sure any oil will be protective against the heat cold cycling effects on plastic.
Please get the guides checked/changed at $1000 it is just to risky to pray that a failure doesn't happen.
pito11213 wrote:well the consensus is that the guides must be done to have that piece of mind.
I have the thought every time I think about slamming on the gas, just imagining what is going on in there.
So I dont. Fortunately the Q has enough power that I dont have to. Just let the car cruise on up to the speed.
Do you actually believe that this will prevent guide failure?!?!
Perhaps you want to let the Q run 24 hours a day- since start up is one of the more likely times to experience a failure.
It kills me when folks can spend $2000 on god-awful 20" wheels and tires, yet can't spend the $$ on the essentials....
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Timing Guide Inevitable Failure
One way - don't drive it until you can replace them. Budget for oil pan removal and have an oil pump cahin drive on hand.JT_MONEY_2004 wrote:OK, this is my 2nd Q, both 90's. Both were bought used and i have no idea weather or not the timing guides were replaced......This new one has about 73k on dash, but on the ride home from dealer i found out the odometer has a problem, it works sometimes, so the mileage isn't exactly accurate.
However, i'm sitting here today and thinking about the guides and how to circumvent or delay the problem.
All else is gamb|ing, and the house always wins, eventually.
Do you feel lucky?
I didnt say I did that to prevent the guides from breaking, I was just stating that why would I do something that I know can cause some sort of damage. I am glad that you guys can agree on something but hey don't get touchy.
Maybe the people with 20's on dont even know about the guides, I didnt until I came to this forum.
Maybe the people with 20's on dont even know about the guides, I didnt until I came to this forum.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Ignorance of the "CHAIN GUIDE LAW" doesn't get you out of economic prison..........no case dismissed ruling by the judge.
We current have 3 of 4 Q on site having towed away another 3 early this year..........since 1998 that makes 17 destroyed and junked and 15 where engines were replaced and as far as I know are still on the road. Additionally 4 were towed away [by owners] never to be seen again. Plus we have 7 customers where engines were swapped by others in other states /dealers.
That makes 43 Q where I have direct knowledge concerning the situation. I might be off by 2 either way.
41 in an independent in Georgia probably translates to double that number since we don't have data from the 5 dealers who also do work on Q.
Lets be generous and say that 80 x 40 states= 3200 roughly 8% of 90-92.5 Q sold [Have failed], but I surveyed replacement chain guides a few years ago and at least 25% have had the slack side guides changed. Multi thousands of replacement guide sets have been sold by 165 dealers in total.
At one dealer in Florida they averaged one set of replacement guides per week for years.
Without knowing how many Q are still being driven [not totaled] or sitting on used car lots or in corn fields rotting hard to really know the exact failure rate........I'll bet 25% [10,000] minumum are out of service.
We current have 3 of 4 Q on site having towed away another 3 early this year..........since 1998 that makes 17 destroyed and junked and 15 where engines were replaced and as far as I know are still on the road. Additionally 4 were towed away [by owners] never to be seen again. Plus we have 7 customers where engines were swapped by others in other states /dealers.
That makes 43 Q where I have direct knowledge concerning the situation. I might be off by 2 either way.
41 in an independent in Georgia probably translates to double that number since we don't have data from the 5 dealers who also do work on Q.
Lets be generous and say that 80 x 40 states= 3200 roughly 8% of 90-92.5 Q sold [Have failed], but I surveyed replacement chain guides a few years ago and at least 25% have had the slack side guides changed. Multi thousands of replacement guide sets have been sold by 165 dealers in total.
At one dealer in Florida they averaged one set of replacement guides per week for years.
Without knowing how many Q are still being driven [not totaled] or sitting on used car lots or in corn fields rotting hard to really know the exact failure rate........I'll bet 25% [10,000] minumum are out of service.
pito11213 wrote:Maybe the people with 20's on dont even know about the guides, I didnt until I came to this forum.
Hey, don't get me wrong-
If you DON'T knw the problem is there, you can't be blamed for not fixing it!
I'm talking about folks who know the chain guides are a SIGNIFICANT risk, yet put $1000 into wheels or stereo or whatever- and drive in denial.
Then, when they fail and they need a new engine, they price an exchange motor ($5000) and... presto- we have a new post for "parting out my Q"
Most of us understand the value judgements that one must make when $$s are tight... but somebodys got to defend those old Qs
Ard
If I knew I could fix my motor simply I would do the chain guides as soon as possible, but to do the chain guides on a motor that I may not even get to keep will just piss me off.
I agree that if you know about the problem then it should be dealt with, I also think that infiniti is a bunch of a$$holes for making such a blatant mistake.
I agree that if you know about the problem then it should be dealt with, I also think that infiniti is a bunch of a$$holes for making such a blatant mistake.
:thumbdI appreciate the feedback guys...but I don't think the answer is as straight-forward as you put it. However, I do lean towards the assessment that there is very little cost benefit to derive from shipping the flagship over to T3...probably the only non-monetary benefit may be knowing that I'm in good hands if the work is being done by T3.
One particular comment made by Q45tech got me thinking about looking towards the direction of T3: "Our most experienced tech has done over 100 guide replacements and only had 3 slip in the last 3 years, the other experienced tech has done 10 and had 2 slip. " Not even Jerry's can offer as impressive of a statistical number that can comfort me at night. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once the timing slips that's the end of my investment, right? Who better to trust than the expert? Now if you put that into perspective and compare the expert's $1000 deal with Jerry's $1450+ deal, the computations is straight-forward. The added baggage is it'll cost an additional $200-$300 for a complete round trip (especially considering the high cost of premium gas, food, lodging 'cause the job isn't going to be done in one day) to travel from the most northern tip to the most southern point of California. Now tell me I'm crazy for thinking about a $600-$700 gamb|ing visit to the Q haven. What would you guys do if you find a round-trip shipping cost for $500? Is that estimate really realistic? If so, would you gamble?
One particular comment made by Q45tech got me thinking about looking towards the direction of T3: "Our most experienced tech has done over 100 guide replacements and only had 3 slip in the last 3 years, the other experienced tech has done 10 and had 2 slip. " Not even Jerry's can offer as impressive of a statistical number that can comfort me at night. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once the timing slips that's the end of my investment, right? Who better to trust than the expert? Now if you put that into perspective and compare the expert's $1000 deal with Jerry's $1450+ deal, the computations is straight-forward. The added baggage is it'll cost an additional $200-$300 for a complete round trip (especially considering the high cost of premium gas, food, lodging 'cause the job isn't going to be done in one day) to travel from the most northern tip to the most southern point of California. Now tell me I'm crazy for thinking about a $600-$700 gamb|ing visit to the Q haven. What would you guys do if you find a round-trip shipping cost for $500? Is that estimate really realistic? If so, would you gamble?