time for a brake upgrade
time for a brake upgrade
i was out on a sunday drive yesterday with a couple of my friends and ive found out i'm gonna be needing some better brakes. one one of the S turns we went through one of my friends attempted to pass one of the other cars but for some reason they both decided to slow trying to decide who will go infront of the other. anyways we had been running pretty hard and i put my foot on the brake to find them to be non-existant. now im fly toward's my friend's brnad new sti that just came out of the shop getting a lip kit on. i ended up having to pull into the lane beside him but it would have been bad news if there was a car coming. anyway, it was pretty hot out (mid 80s) so my brakes were faded and worthless. im thinking about going with the Q45 brake upgrade because i heard it has better f/r braking perportions compared to the 300zx. and it also gives better clearance which i believe i need with the wheels i have on now. so has anybody on here done the Q45 upgrade and if so how do you like it? im just interested in hearing from anyone who has experiance with the q45 upgrade. thanks for reading
Q45 = waste of time
guys who get Z32 front and OEM rear have problems because Z32 front isnt supposed to work with puny OEM rear
get front and rear Z32 with some good pads and ATE super blue(make sure you alternate between teh blue and gold color so you know when you're done bleeding!!)
you'll thank me later.
z32/r32 style ebrake just owns.
guys who get Z32 front and OEM rear have problems because Z32 front isnt supposed to work with puny OEM rear
get front and rear Z32 with some good pads and ATE super blue(make sure you alternate between teh blue and gold color so you know when you're done bleeding!!)
you'll thank me later.
z32/r32 style ebrake just owns.
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phatpat240
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:50 pm
why do you say that? only real difference is the caliper design. 4 piston fixed vs. 2 piston sliding. rotor size is nearly the same. i believe about 40% larger pads which should be sufficient. if it can stop a 4100 lb car is should be able to stop a 2800 lb car very well. im only conserned with f/r perportions and pedal feel.
Hmmmmm. After spenfing a LOT of time with my buddy who has Z32 front brakes and upgrades rears, he told me not to bother. IMHO the Z32 is overrated.#1 You need to run spacers on good looking wheels in 4 lug. Good luck trying to find 4 lug wheels that will clear the calipers that aren't from Volk etc and cost $1200. FYI, you need +44 mm offset to clear them. Think stock SE wheels. Yuck.
#2 They are like an on off switch. The piston in the S13 master cylinder is 7/8 of an inch. The Z32 is either 1inch or 1 1/11 inch. Barring a physics lesson, the smaller piston necssitates more pedal force to move the fliud, but once you reach that point, congrats! You just locked up your fronts!! Yay for dlat spots on your tires!!
Here is a GREAT link to all that info with physics. Dave Coleman is a god. http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/
#3 You can peice togeather the Q45 setup for about $250. Good luck getting the Z32 for anything less than $400.
#4 Who in the hell needs 4 pot calipers on a daily driven car that weighs less than 2700lbs? You will never justify the substantial headache of the install.
#5 Returning to my friend who has the Z32 setup (240_keyy). When we put on Brembo soilds, Goodridge SS lines, and Axxis MM pads on my car, he was very impressed with the braking. Sure the smaller pad will make heat soak of the pad and the fact that my rotors are solid (cuz I want them to last more than 6 months) mean that the heat really has no where to go but stay in the tiny pad. He even commented on how b/c of his stock m/c, our braking ability would be very similar.
With a little homework, and not jsut "Man, big calipers look mad tyte yo!" you can see the best route to take;)
Hey, how about a #6?You heard of Nismo? Yeah. The company that employs engineers to make the best possible tuned parts for our cars. yeah, the guys that designed our cars and know them better than us. Yeah, the guys that have all the big budget R&D. Yeah. The Nismo Big Brake upgrade consists of:Q45 rotorsQ45 calipersSS lines
$10 says that Nissan knows how to tune ther cars better than we do.
#2 They are like an on off switch. The piston in the S13 master cylinder is 7/8 of an inch. The Z32 is either 1inch or 1 1/11 inch. Barring a physics lesson, the smaller piston necssitates more pedal force to move the fliud, but once you reach that point, congrats! You just locked up your fronts!! Yay for dlat spots on your tires!!
Here is a GREAT link to all that info with physics. Dave Coleman is a god. http://www.sportcompactcarweb....lvia/
#3 You can peice togeather the Q45 setup for about $250. Good luck getting the Z32 for anything less than $400.
#4 Who in the hell needs 4 pot calipers on a daily driven car that weighs less than 2700lbs? You will never justify the substantial headache of the install.
#5 Returning to my friend who has the Z32 setup (240_keyy). When we put on Brembo soilds, Goodridge SS lines, and Axxis MM pads on my car, he was very impressed with the braking. Sure the smaller pad will make heat soak of the pad and the fact that my rotors are solid (cuz I want them to last more than 6 months) mean that the heat really has no where to go but stay in the tiny pad. He even commented on how b/c of his stock m/c, our braking ability would be very similar.
With a little homework, and not jsut "Man, big calipers look mad tyte yo!" you can see the best route to take;)
Hey, how about a #6?You heard of Nismo? Yeah. The company that employs engineers to make the best possible tuned parts for our cars. yeah, the guys that designed our cars and know them better than us. Yeah, the guys that have all the big budget R&D. Yeah. The Nismo Big Brake upgrade consists of:Q45 rotorsQ45 calipersSS lines
$10 says that Nissan knows how to tune ther cars better than we do.
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biggie
- Moderator
- Posts: 8302
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:31 am
- Car: '16 Q70L/'14 Q60S Vert/'19 Armada/'09 FX35
- Location: Clemmons, NC
rico05 wrote:Hmmmmm. After spenfing a LOT of time with my buddy who has Z32 front brakes and upgrades rears, he told me not to bother. IMHO the Z32 is overrated.#1 You need to run spacers on good looking wheels in 4 lug. Good luck trying to find 4 lug wheels that will clear the calipers that aren't from Volk etc and cost $1200. FYI, you need +44 mm offset to clear them. Think stock SE wheels. Yuck.
#2 They are like an on off switch. The piston in the S13 master cylinder is 7/8 of an inch. The Z32 is either 1inch or 1 1/11 inch. Barring a physics lesson, the smaller piston necssitates more pedal force to move the fliud, but once you reach that point, congrats! You just locked up your fronts!! Yay for dlat spots on your tires!!
1. Ok 4-lug wheels that clear aren't that hard to find, I've been looking around lately(since one of mine is bent now, and no longer made).
2. Just upgrade to the Z32 master (1 1/16th inch), that's what most people who run the Z32s do now. Normal pedal feel.
Just some info.laterbiggie
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
No, it is the offset. And if all you care about is fade, get some better pads. Honestly, I have never had a real problem with fade on my setup.TurboKA37 wrote:the offset of the wheels doesnt matter too much with clearance, its spoke design mostly
Good point Alan.
Yes, you can just upgrade the m/c. I paid $145 IIRC for my stock m/c at Napa. So your Z32 upgrade just jumped to $600 range. I only spend that kind of dough on stuff that I can fully utilize.
Ok.
Let me put it to you guys this wayif you want to drift
z32 FRONT AND REAR is really where its at
why? more surface area for cooling so youd ont need one million dollar pads, more clamping force and drum actuated ebrake that locks faster than a virgin girls legs
you seriously want to do that upgrade
as far as the NISMO"big brake"
they use teh Q45 caliper because 1. its cheaper for them 2. it is more straightforward 3. it is better suited to work with tiny rear calipers
if you convert to z32 front and rear you will not regret it.
just get some good ATE super blue fluid and whatever pad you like but make sure you alternate blue and gold so you knwo when you're done bleeding
Let me put it to you guys this wayif you want to drift
z32 FRONT AND REAR is really where its at
why? more surface area for cooling so youd ont need one million dollar pads, more clamping force and drum actuated ebrake that locks faster than a virgin girls legs
you seriously want to do that upgrade
as far as the NISMO"big brake"
they use teh Q45 caliper because 1. its cheaper for them 2. it is more straightforward 3. it is better suited to work with tiny rear calipers
if you convert to z32 front and rear you will not regret it.
just get some good ATE super blue fluid and whatever pad you like but make sure you alternate blue and gold so you knwo when you're done bleeding
rico05 wrote: And if all you care about is fade, get some better pads. Honestly, I have never had a real problem with fade on my setup.
if thats true then why do people put q45 and Z32 brakes on the 240? because at regular tempertures the stock brakes will stop at equal if not better distances than the upgrade. unless of coarse you are running extremly sticky tires in which the extra braking power would be useful.
daniel wrote:wrong
they upgrade to z32/q45 for larger rotor diameter, vented rotors, in the case of z32 aluminum, less unsprung weight
also, the big reason is to not have to get big money pads because they have increase braking force.
well, the larger rotor diameter provides more braking torque which is what i meant by more powerful brakes which arent really a consern of mine because my stock brakes are powerful enough. the aluminum calipers are approx. 3 lbs lighter but that doesnt really matter because the rotors add about 5 lbs each so you will still be increasing unsprung weight. the vented rotors is an advantage for cooling which is what i want but that would be an expensive upgrade to get vented rotors which i see as one of the few advantages to the upgrade. brake pad price doesnt really matter because who would spend about $500 on an upgrade to save maybe $50 on pads.
haha
yesi would not recommend something i did not have experience withhahahahaha wow what kind of retard does that?
think about it
keep getting $$ brake pads
or save $50 for the rest of the life of your car..humm i'd save $50 over and over again.
yeah.. get this upgrade and thank me later. trust me
and 1lb unsprung is like 7lb sprung or something..so yea it still helps..not drastically but still its pretty cool
also i dont know why you're spending $500 on calipers and rotors and pads...
http://www.car-part.com
http://www.junkyarddog.com
yesi would not recommend something i did not have experience withhahahahaha wow what kind of retard does that?
think about it
keep getting $$ brake pads
or save $50 for the rest of the life of your car..humm i'd save $50 over and over again.
yeah.. get this upgrade and thank me later. trust me
and 1lb unsprung is like 7lb sprung or something..so yea it still helps..not drastically but still its pretty cool
also i dont know why you're spending $500 on calipers and rotors and pads...
http://www.car-part.com
http://www.junkyarddog.com
i dont drive my car that often, so id only be replacing the pads once or twice. and what im say with the weight, is that you are adding weight even with the aluminum calipers because you have to add the larger rotors which weigh about 5 lbs more than stock. its more than just rotors/caliper/pads. you have to get the lines and if you decide to use old rotors then getting them resurfaced or new ones will cost over $100, calipers you may be able to find a decent deal but could take some time and gas money which might need to be rebuilt once you actually get them. maybe it wont come out to $500 but it will be a decent amount once you add up all the little things.
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180crafter
- Posts: 2282
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 6:38 am
- Car: Nissan 240sx
- Contact:
wow rico you must not know mehaha
180crafter
i dont know which jap dudes youre talking about
but every guy i know in jp that drifts
has either r32/3/4 type m brakes front and rear...
good luck trying to run BM Hai or dori festival on stock brakes hahaha yeah. who is feeding you this crap?and frankly i dont need **** for power to drift.
man you guys need help..seriously.
180crafter
i dont know which jap dudes youre talking about
but every guy i know in jp that drifts
has either r32/3/4 type m brakes front and rear...
good luck trying to run BM Hai or dori festival on stock brakes hahaha yeah. who is feeding you this crap?and frankly i dont need **** for power to drift.
man you guys need help..seriously.
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Increasing rotor mass will increase the amount of fade resistance. The Q45 upgrade would be an excellent economical upgrade for you. Braided lines (banjo fittings - 240SX caliper style), ATE Super Blue, and a set of Hawk HPS pads would do you some good.TurboKA37 wrote:im not worried about braking power, im conserned with fade
I plan to utilize 90 N/a Z32 brakes to keep unsprung weight down while still providing excellent braking feel, and clamping load.
I'll stick with the stock 240SX brake master cylinder because I like the greater front bias, and the pedal feel.
When I would take my car down the twisties I was experiencing more fluid fade than pad fade. This was using a generic Dot4, stock lines, tired rotors, and Axxis Ultimates. Honestly the stock brakes work fine with the upgrades for 90% of people.
http://scirocco.dyndns.org/faq....html
brakes do not stop your car, your tires ability to resist force does. if you spend tons of money upgradeing your brakes without having the tire traction to back it up, it is useless.
also, people upgrade brakes(those of us who know enough about it..) for the decreased heat fade/increased heat dissipation..
THIS IS ONLY A CONCERN WHEN YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THE STOCK BRAKES! IF YOU CAN LOCK YOUR TIRES UP WITHOUT FADE ON THE STOCK SETUP, YOU DONT NEED THE UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!! it will only net you MORE unsprung weight(yes, even with the Z32 alluminum calipers, they're still[rotor and caliper] a good bit heavier than stockers) more expensive pads and a higher bill.
seriously upgrade the pad first, to a pad that has consistent friction properties(fade resistance, so to speak), some SS lines(decrease compliance) and some good brake fuild, then tell me you need larger brakes...
almost no one ever does.
also, the "mnore area for more torque" brakeing thing is great..until you realise the maximum ammount of braking force you can apply with ANY system is goverend by the tires, and if you can lock the tires..well...you've obviously got enough clamping/braking force.
next brake thread I read about this crap gets deleted.-chet
brakes do not stop your car, your tires ability to resist force does. if you spend tons of money upgradeing your brakes without having the tire traction to back it up, it is useless.
also, people upgrade brakes(those of us who know enough about it..) for the decreased heat fade/increased heat dissipation..
THIS IS ONLY A CONCERN WHEN YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THE STOCK BRAKES! IF YOU CAN LOCK YOUR TIRES UP WITHOUT FADE ON THE STOCK SETUP, YOU DONT NEED THE UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!! it will only net you MORE unsprung weight(yes, even with the Z32 alluminum calipers, they're still[rotor and caliper] a good bit heavier than stockers) more expensive pads and a higher bill.
seriously upgrade the pad first, to a pad that has consistent friction properties(fade resistance, so to speak), some SS lines(decrease compliance) and some good brake fuild, then tell me you need larger brakes...
almost no one ever does.
also, the "mnore area for more torque" brakeing thing is great..until you realise the maximum ammount of braking force you can apply with ANY system is goverend by the tires, and if you can lock the tires..well...you've obviously got enough clamping/braking force.
next brake thread I read about this crap gets deleted.-chet
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
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Nismo_Freak
- Posts: 10314
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:42 pm
- Car: 89 Nissan 240SX
Nismo_Freak wrote:Calipers aren't rotational mass wang chung... what kind of weird crap you got goin on in your S13
I'm gonna put some 13.5" rotors w/ 12 piston calipers and a smaller brake master cylinder on my 240 just for mah baby Chet.
who said anything about rotational mass? u did bring up a good point tho because the rotors (which are rotational mass) will add over 3 lbs each
