Thinking of going with BIGGER fuel pump

[steelcity]

any suggestions?

[Ilya]

Why exactly? Unless you've changed your injector size, etc. you won't really benefit from it.

[jiggersplat]

even then you won't benefit from it unless you have a need for more fuel and have a fuel management system and actually have a need for more fuel.

[seymore4]

even then you won't benefit from it unless you have a need for more fuel and have a fuel management system and actually have a need for more fuel.

Agree with this 100%

[Ilya]

even then you won't benefit from it unless you have a need for more fuel and have a fuel management system and actually have a need for more fuel.

Yep, agreed. I didn't go that in depth in my response, but even if you needed more fuel, you'd need to get bigger injectors since that would be the 'bottle neck' regardless of anything else.

So, unless you're 'goin big or goin home' (turbo, SC, etc.)...you will get no benefit from a bigger pump.

[steelcity]

What if you just go the "naturally aspirated" route? Just focus on air, fuel and spark. Once all this is fully completed...then I'd go with Uprev.

I had read on Super Street that our stock motors can handle 400 whp. I have the plenum and intake right now. You don't know how bad I'd like to add some header. But if I do header, I have to do exhaust. If I do that stuff and I see the car is running in the 14s or 15s....it would kill me. That's why I'm saying this. If the car is loud, I want it to have the power to back it up too. I don't want it to just sound mean. If that's the case I'll leave it as is and do nothing else to it.

I would do injectors too. The motor could handle it.

[pedsemdoc]

The VQ platform in the M is prolly not the NA platform that is gonna give you great gains no matter what you do, since it is a heavy beast...but I don't think the designers had sub 14.0 second times in mind when they designed the car.

My car is pretty darn fast enough for me (but I've got the V8!!! , plus I'm riding in STYLE.

If you look through the old threads Ken in AZ was probably one of the original guys to have done the most to gain power for the M.
I think Dean has also done a few things to make his ride zippier too.

Good luck on your quest for more power.

[steelcity]

Thanks I appreciate it. I'll try to find some older threads to see what kind of set-ups these guys have. Have they ever mentioned their 1/4 miles?

[svard75]

Read up about an all motor crate motor option. http://www.modified.com/news/sccp_0807_ ... ewall.html

This is my uprev tuners 350Z all motor racecar http://www.onpointdyno.com/?page_id=3474

What you're talking about here is taking a daily driver built with reliability in mind and converting it into a race car where engine rebuilding is required quite often. Why would you want to do that? If you wanted a car with 400+HP then you should have started with a platform that is very close like a Ford mustang or something more expensive such as the AMG C63. You can't take a 260HP car and throw some bolt-ons designed to add a bit more HP typically 25-45HP more MAX and expect to squeeze 400HP out of it.

[EniGmA1987]

What if you just go the "naturally aspirated" route? Just focus on air, fuel and spark. Once all this is fully completed...then I'd go with Uprev.

I had read on Super Street that our stock motors can handle 400 whp. I have the plenum and intake right now. You don't know how bad I'd like to add some header. But if I do header, I have to do exhaust. If I do that stuff and I see the car is running in the 14s or 15s....it would kill me. That's why I'm saying this. If the car is loud, I want it to have the power to back it up too. I don't want it to just sound mean. If that's the case I'll leave it as is and do nothing else to it.

I would do injectors too. The motor could handle it.

It would take some serious work and money to get 400 wheel horsepower out of the VQ35DE without any forced induction. And you will have to remove the stock plenum system entirely to do it, it is very restrictive.

Running a larger fuel pump could let you tune for much higher fuel PSI though so that the fuel atomizes more efficiently and can burn better, which would create more power. But that seems like one of the last things you should be thinking about after you have done the important things.

[steelcity]

How much whp do you think the car could get without forced induction? Max?

Believe me, I'd love to go crazy on the car. At the same time I do think about the money and if it's really worth it. I don't want to spend all this money just to have a loud car. If I spend the money, I'd like for the car to be in the low 13's at least. If it can't hit low 13's, it's not worth spending anymore cash on it (for me). I already spent money on the plenum spacer, injen exhaust and unorthodox crank pulley (which is going in next week). Spacer and intake sound great and I feel the difference.

My only steps left for the natural power would be to spend money on headers, exhaust, upgraded fuel system and at the end get up-rev to tune the motor and transmission. I wonder what the whp would be here?

OR! I just think of going with an M37 or M56 in a year or two and doing the work on one of those instead since their motors are bigger. Plus, you can find bolt-on kits for them.

[EniGmA1987]

How much whp do you think the car could get without forced induction? Max?

Depends on how much money you spend. 400 is doable if you are willing to spend $10K+

I wonder what the whp would be here?

Probably only 260-270 with those mods.

[svard75]

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Infiniti-0 ... Times.html

You would be better off going after an m56s then perform bolt-ons to reach low 13s maybe even high 12s.

[steelcity]

How much whp do you think the car could get without forced induction? Max?

Depends on how much money you spend. 400 is doable if you are willing to spend $10K+

I wonder what the whp would be here?

Probably only 260-270 with those mods.

10k+ is definitely with a supercharger involved.

260-270 is really not bad whp to be honest. You could probably eat up some stock muscle cars off the light.

[steelcity]

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Infiniti-0 ... Times.html

You would be better off going after an m56s then perform bolt-ons to reach low 13s maybe even high 12s.

+1 on that. That's how I think sometimes. Less of a project.

Great link BTW.

[EniGmA1987]

10k+ is definitely with a supercharger involved.

Well cams and install will be a bit under $2k, valve work (open them up just a hair, port them better, new springs capable of higher RPM, new retainers) will be another $2K or so, new pistons (lighter weight and higher compression), the good coating, and cylinder work (best if you bore them out a bit for more power) will be $2-3K, if you want a new crankshaft (more low end torque and total HP) that will be $3-6K depending on what size you go with, larger throttle body and new intake manifold that works better will be another $1K or so. So ya, easily around $10,000 to get a proper built 400 whp NA engine.

One thing that nearly everyone neglects that will significantly improve your acceleration to get the times you want would be to just do some new gearing. Buy a new differential and have 4.09 gears put in, gas mileage will drop probably 2MPG or so but it will increase your acceleration by 14% just with that. It ought to shave about a whole second or so off your 1/4 mile time right there and it is far cheaper than a bunch of engine work. Your 0-60 should also improve a good bit, though top speed will suffer greatly. Though that shouldn't matter since how often will you be getting up to 150+ mph?

[steelcity]

You're talking making the car ALL motor there. I love that idea. It's expensive man. Doesn't the one guy on this board that has his M35 Supercharged, have a stock motor with 437 HP? I could've sworn he said our motors can hold up to 500 HP stock. I read on Superstreet that our motors can hold up to 400 HP stock (I guess he's proving Superstreet wrong).

I LOVE what you are saying though about the differential and it's funny you say that because about 10 years ago I had a '96 Maxima. I had a few friends that had some old Mitsubishi Eclipses. Their cars were all monsters. But they had an awesome mechanic. I remember asking the guy one time "what would you do to my car?" and at the time I remember seeing a guy with the same Maxima down in Miami with the 2000 Maxima block, Pathfinder TB, manual transmission, etc.

So, I told this mechanic the set-up this guy had and he just killed it. He goes to me: "You are not going to do any of that s***. What we will do is focus on air and fuel and the big secret will be your transmission. You're going to keep it automatic. I'll send it to some friends that'll make everything bigger and stronger and I will have your car running 275-300 whp". He wanted the car to be ALL transmission!

I will never forget that. I'm glad you just reminded me of that @Enigma1987. It's also a much cheaper route when you think about it. Also, for the record, you're right I don't give a crap about going 150mph. These are 1/4 mile cars.

[CPJ LB]

how do the M35x compare to the M35 sport in HP ratings?? does the M35x lose a lot from the crank to the wheels (4) ? just curious since I've never driven an M35x...

[Brian35XR]

10k+ is definitely with a supercharger involved.

One thing that nearly everyone neglects that will significantly improve your acceleration to get the times you want would be to just do some new gearing. Buy a new differential and have 4.09 gears put in, gas mileage will drop probably 2MPG or so but it will increase your acceleration by 14% just with that. It ought to shave about a whole second or so off your 1/4 mile time right there and it is far cheaper than a bunch of engine work. Your 0-60 should also improve a good bit, though top speed will suffer greatly. Though that shouldn't matter since how often will you be getting up to 150+ mph?

This.... this, this this THIS. How do I swap out my crappy stock differential for LESS AGGRESSIVE one that is going to give me better gas mileage. I don't care about the little decrease in acceleration.. I want to rev normal on the highway damnit!

[EniGmA1987]

You're talking making the car ALL motor there. I love that idea. It's expensive man. Doesn't the one guy on this board that has his M35 Supercharged, have a stock motor with 437 HP? I could've sworn he said our motors can hold up to 500 HP stock. I read on Superstreet that our motors can hold up to 400 HP stock (I guess he's proving Superstreet wrong).

Im pretty sure ours cars handle 400-450 hp stock, because the trans is only rated for 450 HP so you will break stuff there if you go higher, but also the rods will give out and break around the 400-450 mark too. The crappy little A-Beam rods we have are the weakest part of our engine. But just because the engine is capable of handling that much power "stock" built doesn't mean you can do a few bolt on's and get that much. You either have to do a lot of engine work and significantly increase how much air and fuel you take in along with much higher compression, or you have to use forced induction on the stock engine to take in significantly more air and fuel that way. Either direction you go the requirements for more power are the same, one is just trying to get it without a piece of equipment forcing it in there. But both will require a lot of money

This.... this, this this THIS. How do I swap out my crappy stock differential for LESS AGGRESSIVE one that is going to give me better gas mileage. I don't care about the little decrease in acceleration.. I want to rev normal on the highway damnit!

Well I do not know anyone who makes smaller ratio gears which is what you would be after. However, you could find someone who can make the gears for you (will be expensive) and then install them into a differential. Im sure if you could find out all the exact dimensions you could buy some hardened gears from some place and use those. After all, they are just ring and pinion gears, nothing special really. If you go this custom geared route you should probably look for something in the range of 2.59-2.79 gears. If you use 2.59 ratio gears then you would lower your RPMs by 28%, which would take you from 3200 RPMs at 70 mph, down to 2300 RPMs at 70 mph. Maybe. That is how the math works out, but because you are making less HP at lower RPMs you will have to use more gas to get the same speed as before, so that will negate the RPM savings to some degree. You might end up closer to 2500-2600 RPMs @ 70mph in the real world.

EDIT: I just realized you have an M35X. That makes it much more tricky because you have two differentials, which means the mod would cost twice as much. In the end you probably wouldnt save any money because the different in cost of gas over a few years would barely equal out the cost of the mod.

[steelcity]

You're talking making the car ALL motor there. I love that idea. It's expensive man. Doesn't the one guy on this board that has his M35 Supercharged, have a stock motor with 437 HP? I could've sworn he said our motors can hold up to 500 HP stock. I read on Superstreet that our motors can hold up to 400 HP stock (I guess he's proving Superstreet wrong).

Im pretty sure ours cars handle 400-450 hp stock, because the trans is only rated for 450 HP so you will break stuff there if you go higher, but also the rods will give out and break around the 400-450 mark too. The crappy little A-Beam rods we have are the weakest part of our engine. But just because the engine is capable of handling that much power "stock" built doesn't mean you can do a few bolt on's and get that much. You either have to do a lot of engine work and significantly increase how much air and fuel you take in along with much higher compression, or you have to use forced induction on the stock engine to take in significantly more air and fuel that way. Either direction you go the requirements for more power are the same, one is just trying to get it without a piece of equipment forcing it in there. But both will require a lot of money

the M45's have titanium rods right?

[EniGmA1987]

the M45's have titanium rods right?

Im not sure about the M45 with it's VK motor, but our M35's with the VQ definitely do not have titanium rods. I have some stock ones sitting in a box out in the garage.

[mexillis]

Just put a 100 shot and call it a day. Cheaper route and it wont be a long journey to get the same results of an NA motor with tons of mods and thousands later.

[steelcity]

Just put a 100 shot and call it a day. Cheaper route and it wont be a long journey to get the same results of an NA motor with tons of mods and thousands later.

you're evil

[svard75]

Just put a 100 shot and call it a day. Cheaper route and it wont be a long journey to get the same results of an NA motor with tons of mods and thousands later.

Lol. Or a 200 hp shot to get to the 400hp mark. Only issue he'll need to fabricate a multi stage multi valve system with a tank the size of his trunk for it to be useful for longer than a few WOT runs.

[EniGmA1987]

Just put a 100 shot and call it a day. Cheaper route and it wont be a long journey to get the same results of an NA motor with tons of mods and thousands later.

Lol. Or a 200 hp shot to get to the 400hp mark. Only issue he'll need to fabricate a multi stage multi valve system with a tank the size of his trunk for it to be useful for longer than a few WOT runs.

150 shots and above can/will break the stock rods. Just go ask the 350z and G35 people. Maybe not the first time, maybe not the second, but use that much just one too many times and there goes your engine.

[Larz]

Please do not consider this rude or disrespectful in any way. That is absolutely NOT my intention.

Seems to me that you are re-doing you M into a semi-super car. You will be changing the engine, the suspension, exhaust, transmission, and handling characteristics to the point that your car is not really an M anymore. You will use high quality parts that were not part of the design or tuning of the car. So consider this:
Gather up the huge dollars you will spend on these changes, and take the cash and your M to a Cadillac dealer and get a lightly used CTS-V sedan with a warranty.
It already has a 6.2 L supercharged 550 bhp / 550 torques engine and does 0=60 in about 4sec.
It has a gear box that was designed and tuned to mate with engine, a suspension and chassis tuned on the Nurbugring, Brembo brakes, magnetic ride control, optional Recaro 14-way seats, body kit with integrated spoilers, G-meters, LED tracers on the spedo guages, and it comes in a colour called: 'Red Obsession Tintcoat' which I call "arrest-me red".


.

[Ilya]

Agree with Larz. You're better off just getting a car that already does what you're trying to do. Why? A LOT less headache, time, money, agony, blood, etc. will go into it.

However, if you do pursue this, please share your build thread/progress. We're all a curious bunch.

[mexillis]

A used cts V is def worth it. I have been debating on selling mine to get one. If you want to run high 12's on the M there is a TT one that made a 12.9 pass. It all depends on what route you want to run and how much to spend. I say spray is the best route for the money and keeping it safe with a 100 shot or even 75 would be reliable. One thing is no one really hooks up an X but who says you can't be first?

[steelcity]

I hear all you guys. At the end of the day I could just be talking crap and do nothing to it. The CTS-V is awesome but I'm not a fan of American cars. I love imports. The nitrous shot I would never do because I feel that it will blow the motor eventually. IF! I were to upgrade air and fuel, I would have to see if there is that ONE more thing that can be done (whether transmission or differential) before doing the tuning for the car. Engine is out of the picture and so is a turbo or SC.

But, like I said guys. tomorrow my crank pulley is going in and for all I know, that will be my final upgrade. Keep the car as is with a spacer, intake and pulley. Drive it until it has 300k miles or trade it in, in the next year or two for something else. I enjoyed everyone's feedback.

But I will tell you this, if my friends mechanic (who is a bad mofo) tells me that if we do headers, exhaust, supe-up transmission, fuel system and complete tuning costs 5-7k and can possibly break me into high 12's..........I might really consider it. For those of you that say, "why with this car?" It's because I LOVE sleepers.