Things to think about on your Q

[JoshIsSciFi]

Yet again, someone else (zinkie) saying they noticed a very good improvement in power by putting a CAI system on their car. When I made mine and put it on, I found a very good amount of power increase. Yet there were those that continued to say that the stock intake is as close to perfect as you can get. Well, anyone that has looked at the entire intake system will tell you different. I think it is that some people see engineers as deitys and forget to realize that 99% of car makers out there are making cars to make money, not to do things perfectly. Your car was setup not to function perfectly, but to make them money, so that they could make 1,000s of them. They do it the cheapest way possible that will be effective, so stop saying that everything on the Q, whether it be engine, interior, suspension, etc, etc, is made to 100% perfection, cause, its not. If it was true, there would be NO aftermarket parts for any car on the road, we'd all be getting the most HP out of our engines as we possibly could from the factory, and to be perfectly honest, there probably would be about 60% less posts on Nico. Ok, my little 48 hours of no sleep rant is over

[pito11213]

DAMN JOSH THAT WAS HARDBODY

So are you saying someone need to make a CAI system for the Q on a wide stream?

[Q451990]

I don't think anyone said that performance gains are not possible... just that they're minor for the work that you do to get them. And the balance from the factory (noise vs. power) (long term health vs. power) (handling vs. ride) is optimized pretty well. The Q is a little different from most other vehicles - it really was optimized at the factory. It's not a 1990 Ford Escort - it's the flagship of a performance oriented line... they spent the design $$$ to get it right.

That being said, I've never seen anyone here that got the mod bug that could be talked out of it. Good luck with your CAI. I hope you stumble on something that will reliably give me more HP...

If you get gains out of it or any other mod - please be able to give us before and after trap times, etc... Seat-of-the-pants horsepower is directly related to how much time, how many scrapes on the knuckles, how much money you spent, and how it sounds - but typically not real gains. I always think my car runs better after an oil change - just my brain rewarding me for time spent on the garage floor I guess.

Heath

[SUITE E]

But...my car DOES run better after the oil is changed...

[DR.Q]

If it was true, there would be NO aftermarket parts for any car on the road

C'mon, you know that statement isn't true. Some people will spend money on their car just to spend money on their car. In an attempt to make it "different" whether it makes it better or worse. Look at all the things people do to Hondas. Sometimes you'd think they just want people to point and laugh at them.

[PoorManQ45]

Yet again, someone else (zinkie) saying they noticed a very good improvement in power by putting a CAI system on their car. When I made mine and put it on, I found a very good amount of power increase. Yet there were those that continued to say that the stock intake is as close to perfect as you can get. Well, anyone that has looked at the entire intake system will tell you different. I think it is that some people see engineers as deitys and forget to realize that 99% of car makers out there are making cars to make money, not to do things perfectly. Your car was setup not to function perfectly, but to make them money, so that they could make 1,000s of them. They do it the cheapest way possible that will be effective, so stop saying that everything on the Q, whether it be engine, interior, suspension, etc, etc, is made to 100% perfection, cause, its not. If it was true, there would be NO aftermarket parts for any car on the road, we'd all be getting the most HP out of our engines as we possibly could from the factory, and to be perfectly honest, there probably would be about 60% less posts on Nico. Ok, my little 48 hours of no sleep rant is over

Wow!!! Finally, another member who thinks just like me .

I completely agree with you Josh. It is all about economics. Are you going to spend $10 making something, and then sell it for $10.50? Hell no, you are going to sell it for $100.

I will admit that the Q is a very well balanced car directly from the factory. But I don't like how everyone on Nico says that there are virtually no gains to be had by doing any modifications to the engine!! Come on guys, you are smarter then that! I, and other members, have repeatedly asked/talked about performance modifications to no avail. I suggest a cam swap, and what do the members say, "You won't see any real power increases, it has VVT." That's toatl BS, I have never seen an engine that did not benefit from a "hotter" cam swap. I'm going to go out on a limb, to say, look at the Honda VTEC engines; they benefit alot from a simple cam swap.

Nissan Engineers did a good job designing the Q45, but there is Always room for improvement.

[PoorManQ45]

C'mon, you know that statement isn't true. Some people will spend money on their car just to spend money on their car. In an attempt to make it "different" whether it makes it better or worse. Look at all the things people do to Hondas. Sometimes you'd think they just want people to point and laugh at them.

Please don't bring Honda into this. I know plenty of Honda Civics that would literally blow the doors off of a Q45, G35, M45, and G20, having less then $10k in mods. You are just throwing them all into the category of "Big wing posers". But that is not true of all of them.

[Jesda]

If you want the fastest drag race for your dollar, you really should be looking into a Pony car or something...

[PoorManQ45]

I don't think that Josh or I are looking for the fastest drag car possible.

I am kind of speaker for Josh here:

We want you to admit the shortcomings of Nissan Engineers. Admit that they did not create the "best" balance of either the performanc or luxury world.

[Jesda]

Then why the comparison to dragster discount economy cars?

[JoshIsSciFi]

See, this is what I'm saying, they did not make it PERFECT from the factory, albeit it is very nice, but nowhere near perfect. If I had a few thousand on me right now, I have a company that is willing to make me a cam for the Q, now its not going to be as radical as say a 5.0 HO cam that is in my friend Dave's new engine, where you can hear every revolution like a rhythmic pulse of a fine tuned watch, but it would definately deliver more power. Don't forget people, the internal combustion engine is over 100 years old, there is always something new and more powerful that you can do to it. But also, it is based on personal want, personal time, personal money for the most part when dealing with something like the Q. I have a 1988 Integra sitting in my garage collecting dust. For $3k I could have a mid 5 second 1/8th mile car out of it right now, if ya wanna know how I'll post it lol.

[PoorManQ45]

I have a 1988 Integra sitting in my garage collecting dust. For $3k I could have a mid 5 second 1/8th mile car out of it right now, if ya wanna know how I'll post it lol.

I already know how!! Drive it off of a cliff . Just messin with ya man. Tell us how you'd do it.

Also, Why does it cost so much to have a cam made for the VH45DE? For most other cars, you can have a custom made cam for under $200! Why is the Q45 any different?

[Jesda]

Now you have to define "perfect."

The quality that most Q45 owners surveyed liked most was the style. Second was the performance. Third was luxury.

"Perfect" to me does not include the 1/4 mi in 10 seconds, whereas for someone else it may.The Q was the 'perfect' sedan for the folks that put down $36000-$52000 to have one. All of the design compromises and decisions that went into the vehicle ended up coming out favorably for the owners and leasers.

I mean really... if performance is perfection, you cant beat a bike. But if your definition of perfection includes comfort, luxury, and style, the Q is appealing.

And for folks who think fuel efficiency is perfection, they'll likely be driving a Prius, Escape Hybrid, or Civic HX.

[JoshIsSciFi]

Ok, here ya go everybody...grndprx18: well ok if nissan is god......grndprx18: why didnt they get more than 280 hp out of that kind of an engine.....ford gets 300 out of a SOHC 4.6.... gm gets 325 out of a 4.6L DOHC on 87 gas.....GM gets 260 hp out of a 3.8L v6 ........and the LS1 managed 350+ out of 2 valves aslo even though it has bigger displacement and GM has a new 3.6L v6 in the buick lacross that gets 245 hp with no chargergrndprx18: all in the same balpark with 2 less cylandersgrndprx18: and with fords and GM's lo tech v8 beat HP wise the NISSAN perfect engeneeringPsYcHo FreaK y2k: want that posted?grndprx18: with same displacement in the 4.6L casesgrndprx18: sure ...I think it makes the pointPsYcHo FreaK y2k: with your im name? lmaogrndprx18: and the ford and GM engines use NO VVT **** except in the lacross casegrndprx18: sure

[Jesda]

No, no, no.

Half of design is making decisions and compromises. And HP/Liter is a horrible way to measure anything. Its a silly numerical comparison perpetuated by knucklehead Autozone employees (no offense if you are one).

There is SO MUCH MORE to engine design than horsepower, which is another pretend number. Efficiency, longetivity, cost, intended purpose, expected operating environment -- its not easily summed up by what you see on paper.

[PoorManQ45]

Very nice. You just Proved that Infiniti Sucks,and people not on Nico Know it!!! . I have always said that American Muscle is way better then Jap-crap. You can't beat a Pushrod 350ci with 400HP that still gets over 25MPG!!!

[PoorManQ45]

There is SO MUCH MORE to engine design than horsepower, which is another pretend number. Efficiency, longetivity, cost, intended purpose, expected operating environment -- its not easily summed up by what you see on paper.

Ya, there is, like having a smooth HP and Torque curve!

The VH45DE is dead below 3000rpm. Now tell me, how smooth is that? In reviews, it has been said that it feels like it is coming into boost. That is not how an engine is supposed to be.

Let's use Wes's favorite car maker: Take a look at the Caddilac 4.6L Northstar V8! That thing is silky smooth from take off to redline!!

The Q45 would be way better if it had about 25HP and 25Lb/FT more below 3000rpm. That would probably make the transition past 3000rpm alot smoother.

[JoshIsSciFi]

See, whats funny is, its always the people that want to argue that point that say HP is an "Imaginary" number. IT'S NOT!!! HP is a very real number, and is one that apparently only some people of this board find imaginary, while every single magazine in the world dedicated to anything relating to power uses it as a benchmark. If HP didn't matter, then why is it printed on my car? If it didn't matter, why is it listed in Performance Data? Right there above Torque. There it is plain as day, doesn't look imaginary to me.Horsepower - Abbr. hp A unit of power in the U.S. Customary System, equal to 745.7 watts or 33,000 foot-pounds per minute.

[Jesda]

The Northstar is a favorite of mine as well, but to gain that extra power you suffer through oil consumption (still a problem) and head gasket issues (mostly resolved by 2000).

Design is about picking your battles. What flaws and annoyances will the potential owner be willing to put up with to gain something else? What features are necessary for marketability, and at what cost to longetivity, efficiency, and execution?

The Q shines above 3000rpm, but is hardly dead with a 93-96 TCU. The factory implemented a second-gear start because takeoffs were too powerful!

-Jesda

[PoorManQ45]

Design is about picking your battles. What flaws and annoyances will the potential owner be willing to put up with to gain something else? What features are necessary for marketability, and at what cost to longetivity, efficiency, and execution?

Jesda!! Come on, do you really want to say that? I am willing to bet that at least 50% of the Q45 owners on Nico have experienced numurous failures. Chain Guides, Fuel Pump, Alternator, AC, Power Steering Pump, Everything Electronic fails, and alot more stuff.

The Q shines above 3000rpm, but is hardly dead with a 93-96 TCU. The factory implemented a second-gear start because takeoffs were too powerful!-Jesda

No, The newer TCU only causes the ransmission to always start in 1st gear. I manually shift my Q, it still is kind of dead below 3000rpm. From a stop light, it starts kind of slow, half way across it gets to 3000RPMs and then it just takes off! Again, it needs a little more power down low.

[DAEDALUS]

If HP didn't matter, then why is it printed on my car? If it didn't matter, why is it listed in Performance Data? Right there above Torque. There it is plain as day, doesn't look imaginary to me.Horsepower - Abbr. hp A unit of power in the U.S. Customary System, equal to 745.7 watts or 33,000 foot-pounds per minute.

As my auto instructor often says, and you'll hear this elsewhere too, "Horsepower is what sells cars. Torque is what moves them". Certainly it is a real number, but it is calculated. Torque is what's actually measured by the dyno.

[JoshIsSciFi]

Design is about picking your battles. What flaws and annoyances will the potential owner be willing to put up with to gain something else? What features are necessary for marketability, and at what cost to longetivity, efficiency, and execution?

So your telling me that you honestly are willing to have a little bit nicer of an interior, at the expense of losing an engine when the chain guides fail? There will never be a person who can make an arguement about "annoyances" that can be lived with for the sake of another piece of equipment, not until every last one of the 90-93 Qs have either died a horrible painful death, or have had the guides replaced. Nissan engineers were STUPID to use plastic, and if you think they weren't, well then, I have some ocean front property here in WV ya might like to see. "Lets see, we're going to make a performance-luxury sedan folks... it's going to have power... a v8... and four cams...." "Well what shall we use as the guides?" "Hmm.... ah hah! PLASTIC.... Plastic makes it possible..." "But sir, the chains will be revolving at 7k rpm in some cases." "YOUR FIRED!, Go commit Sipiku!"

[PoorManQ45]

As my auto instructor often says, and you'll hear this elsewhere too, "Horsepower is what sells cars. Torque is what moves them". Certainly it is a real number, but it is calculated. Torque is what's actually measured by the dyno.

You just excluded every Honda on the planet!!! Torque moves cars at lower RPMs. You can make up for low Torque with HP in the Higher RPMs.

BTW, HP is calculated in reference to engines. In other matters, it is not calcualted, it is measured by the work down over a time period.

[JoshIsSciFi]

PMQ Ya just stole my reply lol. Every person that knows about engines will say that Torque gets you moving, HP gets you faster. I will agree torque is what matters off the line, but past the 1/4 mile, hell even the 1/8th mile, its HP that does the work. And btw, why do they rate jet engines as HP?

[JoshIsSciFi]

Another good point was made, the chain guides were most likely known to have a tendency to fail after a certain amount, so the Engineers KNOWINGLY put faulty equipment on the car in hopes to have people have to come back and get something else, but then they realized, "OMG, these Americans no like us, they like the Lexus... we better do something quick!" So in 94 they decided it was better to use something OTHER than a POS piece of plastic.

[Jesda]

Jesda!! Come on, do you really want to say that? I am willing to bet that at least 50% of the Q45 owners on Nico have experienced numurous failures. Chain Guides, Fuel Pump, Alternator, AC, Power Steering Pump, Everything Electronic fails, and alot more stuff.

Your response had absolutely nothing to do with what I said regarding engine design.

Fuel systems (more frequently on late 80s/early 90s Nissan), electrical systems (rare on Nissan, common on French, German, Italian, and British cars), and miscellaneous accessories fail on almost ALL old cars. By 1994 fuel system issues were resolved and chain guide problems were addressed.

The awful chain guide problem affected about 1% of all VH45DEs during their expected life cycle. The Qs that you and I own are FAR BEYOND their expected life cycle. To keep a car this long, you are going beyond factory expectations for longetivity, and accepting the possibility of mechanical failures, thus the need for meticulous maintenance and care.

The Q45 is an investment -- not in any remote financial sense -- but in owner satisfaction payoff.

My very clean (engine and transmission) 92 Q has no problems with off-the-line acceleration thanks to the 94 TCU, and yes, in second gear tooling around town there are moments where a little more power would be nice. But really... if you're drag racing you will not have problems staying in the powerband.

[Jesda]

Another good point was made, the chain guides were most likely known to have a tendency to fail after a certain amount, so the Engineers KNOWINGLY put faulty equipment on the car in hopes to have people have to come back and get something else, but then they realized, "OMG, these Americans no like us, they like the Lexus... we better do something quick!" So in 94 they decided it was better to use something OTHER than a POS piece of plastic.

The plastic guides were used because at the time they were NOT known to fail. The end result is unfortunate for used buyers like us, but there wasnt a dark sales conspiracy conjured in the back room of Nissan headquarters. Thats a ridiculous notion.

-Jesda

[JoshIsSciFi]

Dave: "Why in the 60s did Ford and GM make engines that had more horsepower than displacement, for example the 289 cu. in. had 306hp in a stock cobra, the 69 Chevelle 396 cu in engine had 396 hp, and then a 396 cu in with 427 hp. Why is it Infiniti couldn't beat it? A '64 Vette with a 327 had an option for 340hp, have them get back to me on that one, I'll be at the shop waiting."

[Jesda]

Hi. Fast forward to the oil crisis and changes in methods for rating power.

[JoshIsSciFi]

The plastic guides were used because at the time they were NOT known to fail. The end result is unfortunate for used buyers like us, but there wasnt a dark sales conspiracy conjured in the back room of Nissan headquarters. Thats a ridiculous notion.

Your tellin me that a group of engineers, with degrees in all this, didn't know that plastic wouldn't fail under intense heat and stress like 7k rpm out of a V8?