The White Devil Oil System (Big Problems, Read the end result)

[WDRacing]

A vent will work better then a vacuum...I don't want any vacuum in my oil system. Also, the problem is not the tank overflowing, won't happen with a pump pulling the oil away. So a vent to keep the suction from occuring is all that is needed.

I'm plumbing mine back to the pan.

[sanioll]

you dont understand, its a vent. its just one way vent. when vacuum is created inside the tank, it lets in air to avoid suction from turbo. when more air is in the tank from increasing oil, then that air valve shuts close from pressure, and that pressure inside the tank starts pushing excess oil thru bypass valve in addition to oil pump.==================================================

having a simply open air hole, and a powerful pump simply means that, your pump will run dry longer, which means a failure in a long run, which may not be that long.

that above system is a easy thing to implement and if you do, it will be the most reliable.

Well reread my prevoius posts, i got all the angles and worst cases covered. It cannot fail, if made properly.====================================================

well you are the turbo guy., its your call and your turbo.

[sanioll]

besides that pump might be an overkill.

first find out what is the average flow rate thru your turbo. This will be obtained gathering data at different engine speeds, RPMs. how do you drive, where does the needle usually rests while youre driving.

Ex: in my case, average rpm usually is 2900. sometimes i hit 5k 6k, couple times a day i say.

just find out flow rate, then get a pump that is just a bit above that flow rate. ==========================================

currently you have too powerful pump, which means its going to run dry most of the time. means youre scewed if pump fails., so is your turbo, so is your engine.

if the pump was slow, it would pump whatever it could, and overflow valve, would let out excess oil in the tank. in this case youre saved.

===============================================

RULE: never get too powerful pump to suck oil from turbo.

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comment on this before you install something. I wanna make sure its done right. Let say youre the first person to try it. If it works out to my satisfaction, i might try it later on too.

[WDRacing]

If it was as simple as just finding out the flow rate then you could simply get a pump at that flow rate...but you can't just get the flow rate...

[sanioll]

Quote »but you can't just get the flow rate...[/quote]you can and you will, get up your lazy *** and do stuff below:

1. first get a data logger and record rpm readings for couple of days while youre driving. set it to record rpm, let say every second.

2. take all that data, paste it into excel and find the average.

3. do not record data while the engine is idling, this will create a skewed normal distribution of graph towards the lower end. Simply record when youre driving. Dont leave it on, while the car is warming up.

4. now you know your average rpm that you usually drive at.

5. figure out the oil pressure that is coming out of turbo line, right before the tank at the average rpm you have found. Simply someone has to rev the engine let say at (your average rpm) 3000 rpm, and you have to take the measurement; easy as connecting your current oil pressure gauge to it.

6. now you know oil pressure at average RPM you usually drive.

7. BY HAVING TO KNOW OIL PRESSURE AT AVERAGE RPM AND DIAMETER OF TUBING THAT OIL GOES THRU, YOU CAN EASILY CALCULATE AVERAGE OIL FLOW THROUGH YOUR TURBO. THEN CHOOSING THE OIL PUMP IS EASY AS POINTING A FINGER AT THE STORE.

8. as for, what is the formula to find the flow rate of liquid thru the tube given the pressure; well do not worry about it, i will find it for ya.=====================================================

Just do the stuff above, and you may be able to make a revolution in turbo oil return for 240sx owners.

what do you say? you think you can do it? if you need any assistance in averaging, flow rate, any calculations, I do take all the responsibilty to help you out.

[sanioll]

this damn link doesnt work. i will get it to work at home. has to show the pic here. no firefox at work...




Modified by sanioll at 1:33 PM 5/20/2005

[PapaSmurf2k3]

you dont understand, its a vent. its just one way vent.

why does it have to be a one way vent??

if you all want to get really complicated.. you could hook up a "potentiometer" to the catch can, that regulates voltage to the pump based on ammount of oil in the catch can... the more oil, the more voltage to the pump... the more oil the pump will pump.

[sanioll]

why does it have to be a one way vent??

becuase, if tank overflows, it has to shut, to avoid spilling of oil in your engine bay, that may potentially cause fire.

Its not complicated, simple 2 quart tank, simple one way valves that can be obtained from home depot, etc.. Its cheap, and reliable.

Its all about just doing it.

[Warped]

i just dont see why this wouldnt work is you had a pump that could run dry you could even get a fitting for it to screw into the drain plug and be totally easy install

[sanioll]

well, if you can find a oil pump that can run dry and not fail, then yes, simple oil tank with air vent is perfect.

Just makre sure oil pump is powerful enought to pump oil back to engine. If overflow occurs, you still need a bypass valve and one way air valve.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

or you could have a bleeder screw type valve, and put a hose on it, and route it down and have it dump all over the ground if it overflows... kindof like a radiator overflow vent. DEM will be all over your *** but screw them, they wont know.

[madbouncy]

If you made your pump to flow according to your most used RPM, or a little above. Wouldn't you screw yourself once you took the car out for some fast driving, especially road racing? Though if you made it so it could survive that you'd just probably end up with the problem he had and suck too much oil. Honestly, it be cool but I agree with WD's decision on going with gravity, the thing sounds more like a part to a dry sump oil system than something you'd use on its own.

Sure you could map out the flow usage all along the RPM and load range and get a good simple map that would work, but it's a lot of work for not a lot of advantage. Adding weight and complexity doesn't seem like a good way of avoiding having to drill your oil pan and risk drilling the wrong spot. I trust myself with a tape measure a lot more than with rigging up a pump.

I do applaud you on trying the idea though, would've been sweet if it was that simple and worked.

[WDRacing]

Bad thing is, it is that simple, just need a restricter in the line that the pump pulls oil from the turbo, but what size is to big, what size is to small...etc.

Gravity here I come.

[e_c]

a power steering TYPE pump would probably work then, it will spin faster with higher revs as it is belt driven, so more pumping at higher revs, and much less at idle... the only thing would be to find a pump, and as i think was stated higher in the post the PS pump wont work.. or is that incorrect

[turbo90]

been running with the standard gravity sump and a restrictor for 4 mos. no oil smoke, no worry of a pump failing/ working too well. And i brazed the return fitting on the side of my pan myself; brass fitting and dutch boy solder (LOWES RACING)

[The All Mighty KA-T]

ok everyone.......i have found the answer to all of these probles.....look at this web page.....i'm going to buy this pump as soon as i get the money ($230.00 shipped )....they say it can run dry and last a very long time and will work with any turbo system.......

The info about the pump :

http://westech.home.mindspring...3.htm

The web site of the pump : http://westech.home.mindspring...p.htm