The Really!? Thread

[breadbox]

Is it me or is everyone trying to pass ridiculous bans and outlaw fun and unhealthiness?

Everytime I show interest in current events the news makes me dislike the world around me.

I heard that Norfolk was once considering a city ban on sagging your pants making a misdemeanor or whatever.

Cannabis is on Schedule 1.

Prostitution, the worlds oldest profession, is still illegal most places.

When will the world make sense?

When will Prison/detention center management be a Masters degree?

Feel free to add your own REALLY!?

[OriginalWheelman]

Cannabis is on Schedule 1.

This always pissed me off. It has no business on Schedule 1. By their own definitions it belongs way lower on the list.

Furthermore, I do not personally believe the government has the right to pass any law that creates a "victimless crime". There is no such thing. If no one was wronged, there was no wrong doing. If an adult wants to sit at home and smoke a joint, blow some coke, eat some mushrooms, fine. If you want to do those things and go into public and cause a problem, then it needs to be dealt with. Making access to these items may prevent some problems but it creates others. I am a firm believer that people would be more willing to seek help for substance addiction if they didn't have to admit to multiple legal infractions in the process. Usually when people realize they have a problem they set about to make it better, not worse. Going to jail in most cases would be worse, so they struggle to do it on their own. This is a very hard thing to do. When one sets about to change their life such as this, they need to associate themselves with different people. If one quits doing drugs, but still hangs out with all his friends that did / still do, then they won't get far. We all depend on our associates for guidance and when they are fo the mindset that there si nothign wrong well...

[AZhitman]

What do you do when a 6-year old gets hold of mama's coke stash?

Is mom then liable?

There's a larger legal landscape than many people consider...

Not disagreeing, mind you - Just throwing out some complications so people broaden the scope of consideration.

[breadbox]

Here is my biggest problem with that one as well.

A schedule 1 drug must have a HIGH potential for abuse and have no medicinal use.

The United States Government currently provides, the last I heard it was, six people with 300 "marijuana cigarettes" a month for the rest of their lives as medicine.

I know parents who buy street pharms, they are no more secure than any other illict drug. The issue that kids will likely experiment with drugs will depend more on the parental habit, I would think. A Smokers kids might try that first.

[OriginalWheelman]

What do you do when a 6-year old gets hold of mama's coke stash?

Is mom then liable?

Yes. This is a crime with a victim. I believe that drugs should be treated the same way as alcohol. Regulate use to age of majority. Hold the responsible parties liable for supplying (intentionally or by way of inaction) to minors. We already have a very strict system to control alcohol and it would be very easily adapted to suit other substances. The only thing I see is need for a legal definition of under the influence for each substance.

Here is my biggest problem with that one as well.

A schedule 1 drug must have a HIGH potential for abuse and have no medicinal use.

Exactly. This is a blatant contradiction. It is up there for no other reason than to carry the higher penalties that come with schedule 1. If I have been correctly informed, MJ was not illegal in the US until after prohibition. It was always there, but never the preferred drug, when liquor became illegal, people turned to getting high. When this became as wide spread as alcohol, it was set to become illegal. It was made illegal via the stamp act, which was found unconstitutional. Then, when the establishment sought to crack down on the public intoxication epidemic that came with hippies, it was added to the bad list with everything else.
Modified by OriginalWheelman at 1:28 PM 1/21/2009

[bobotech]

I heard that Norfolk was once considering a city ban on sagging your pants making a misdemeanor or whatever.

LOL

I WISH that they would make that a misdemeanor in ALL states. Whenever I see a tard wearing his pants like that, all that comes to mind is "what a stupid looking retard".

[OriginalWheelman]

You know, this gets me thinking, where does the Federal Government get the right to make drug laws? Shouldn't this be a state issue if anything?

[Urabus GodofTraction]

LOL

I WISH that they would make that a misdemeanor in ALL states. Whenever I see a tard wearing his pants like that, all that comes to mind is "what a stupid looking retard".

Not me. How would businesses know who not to hire, then?

[breadbox]

700+ Billion and the paper controlling this is 176 pages?!

That sucker should be at least 1000 pages just to cover the whole "hey don't spend this money to pay yourself again guy" stuff.

I want transparent government. I wanna be able to know what my representatives had for muthaf***in breakfast. I wanna see copies of these b****es taxes.

[audtatious]

You know, this gets me thinking, where does the Federal Government get the right to make drug laws? Shouldn't this be a state issue if anything?

You know, I don't have a problem with an adult occasionally using pot. Of course, there would have to be regulations due to work ethic and such as it's a tad bit harder to pick out someone high vs someone who downed a 1/4th of scotch at work...well, the high person would be shoveling food down their throat but I digress

What I do have a problem with concerning pot is the complete inability of those who want to legalize it to admit that there are negative issues with smoking it. They claim it is not harmful and there are no negative effects while ignoring issues with short-term memory, reflexes and actually doing complex and sometimes simple tasks. They claim it is helpful for those dealing with cancer and such (which is true and has been extracted into pill form.....but does not give the "high" as smoking it does). They are also usually for outlawing cigarettes when some reports show that pot has 3-5x more tar and carbon monoxide absorption.

There is a whole lot to consider on this aspect than simply removing it from being a schedule 1 drug.

[Jacko3]

You know, I don't have a problem with an adult occasionally using pot. Of course, there would have to be regulations due to work ethic and such as it's a tad bit harder to pick out someone high vs someone who downed a 1/4th of scotch at work...well, the high person would be shoveling food down their throat but I digress

What I do have a problem with concerning pot is the complete inability of those who want to legalize it to admit that there are negative issues with smoking it. They claim it is not harmful and there are no negative effects while ignoring issues with short-term memory, reflexes and actually doing complex and sometimes simple tasks. They claim it is helpful for those dealing with cancer and such (which is true and has been extracted into pill form.....but does not give the "high" as smoking it does). They are also usually for outlawing cigarettes when some reports show that pot has 3-5x more tar and carbon monoxide absorption.

There is a whole lot to consider on this aspect than simply removing it from being a schedule 1 drug.

Perhaps, this link would be of help to the readers, while partly supporting some of your claims, which may appear spurious and anoying to a die-hard pot user. Well said!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/bett....html

On the other hand, when it comes to illicit drugs, I find compassion for those enslaved with its use, important, as a first step in providing much needed assistance to such folks.

Whether or not, anyone finds the link convincing or not, is another matter altogether.

[C-Kwik]

What do you do when a 6-year old gets hold of mama's coke stash?

Is mom then liable?

What's the current law state if a child drinks drano or overdoses on a legal drug?

What I do have a problem with concerning pot is the complete inability of those who want to legalize it to admit that there are negative issues with smoking it. They claim it is not harmful and there are no negative effects while ignoring issues with short-term memory, reflexes and actually doing complex and sometimes simple tasks. They claim it is helpful for those dealing with cancer and such (which is true and has been extracted into pill form.....but does not give the "high" as smoking it does). They are also usually for outlawing cigarettes when some reports show that pot has 3-5x more tar and carbon monoxide absorption.

There is a whole lot to consider on this aspect than simply removing it from being a schedule 1 drug.

As with a lot of big issues, people use any argument at their disposal to make a case. And I do agree. I want to see it legalized. But purely because of its recreational purposes. And I'd be perfectly fine with it being regulated similarly to alcohol.

As far as health, I do acknowledge there are health risks involved with smoking cannibus, but consider that it can also be made into edibles, smoked through a vaporizer, or perhaps made into a pill that includes the THC.

Perhaps, this link would be of help to the readers, while partly supporting some of your claims, which may appear spurious and anoying to a die-hard pot user. Well said!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/bett....html

On the other hand, when it comes to illicit drugs, I find compassion for those enslaved with its use, important, as a first step in providing much needed assistance to such folks.

Whether or not, anyone finds the link convincing or not, is another matter altogether.

Interesting read, but I doubt it would be a huge deterrent. If millions will smoke cigarrettes despite the well documented health risks, I don't see people giving up weed so easily either. Particulalry those who use it very occassionally.

[breadbox]

What I do have a problem with concerning pot is the complete inability of those who want to legalize it to admit that there are negative issues with smoking it. They claim it is not harmful and there are no negative effects while ignoring issues with short-term memory, reflexes and actually doing complex and sometimes simple tasks. They claim it is helpful for those dealing with cancer and such (which is true and has been extracted into pill form.....but does not give the "high" as smoking it does). They are also usually for outlawing cigarettes when some reports show that pot has 3-5x more tar and carbon monoxide absorption.

I want it legalized, I admit smoking anything is harmful. What I will not admit to is that cannabis is harmful. No one has died from health complications using cannabis. The closest is those who are skitzo can have negative and often unpredictable reaction. Just because a substance has side effects does not mean everyone will experience them. Each of us reacts to chemicals introduced into our system in different ways.

Example: Four people are smoking weed at a table, First guy could feel lightheaded and queezy, next guy chill, next guy wondering why it doesn't work, and the last guy freaking out and paranoid that they are going to get caught.

First guy gets up and pukes and swears he will never smoke weed again.Second chill mofo likes it and keeps on puffing.Third guy would rather get drunk, cuz it does something.Last guy gets dropped at home and his parents forbay him from hanging out with the others.

Frequent smokers even lose the red eyes most people get. The "memory loss" is usually attributed to the increased blood flow from the accelerated heart rate. Motor control I would say is on a case by case basis, there are some uncoordinated fools in this world and maybe they shouldn't get inebriated.

I don't know to which pill you are specifically referring. If it is an extract of the plant, fine whatever, you are eating THC. If it is the synthesized pill of lab replicated THC then no thank you, that is congruent to fail.

I will also say logically it is unlikely that tobacco has less chemicals and carcinogens than cannabis, being that tobacco is sprayed with some nasty stuff. Most grow ops spray with seaweed tea, maybe some b vitamins.

You need to get through the government lies and read the schaffer commissions report for nixon, it concluded cannabis poses no harm to society and should be legalized, regulated, and taxed.

Why is cannabis not legal?Thats the easy one, industrial interests.

Cotton industryPaper industryOil industryPrivatized prison system

Not to mention how f'ed our agricultural policy is.

Legalize because the prohibition hurts more than it "helps". lol helps.

[Jacko3]

I want it legalized, I admit smoking anything is harmful. What I will not admit to is that cannabis is harmful. No one has died from health complications using cannabis. The closest is those who are skitzo can have negative and often unpredictable reaction. Just because a substance has side effects does not mean everyone will experience them. Each of us reacts to chemicals introduced into our system in different ways.

Example: Four people are smoking weed at a table, First guy could feel lightheaded and queezy, next guy chill, next guy wondering why it doesn't work, and the last guy freaking out and paranoid that they are going to get caught.

First guy gets up and pukes and swears he will never smoke weed again.Second chill mofo likes it and keeps on puffing.Third guy would rather get drunk, cuz it does something.Last guy gets dropped at home and his parents forbay him from hanging out with the others.

Frequent smokers even lose the red eyes most people get. The "memory loss" is usually attributed to the increased blood flow from the accelerated heart rate. Motor control I would say is on a case by case basis, there are some uncoordinated fools in this world and maybe they shouldn't get inebriated.

I don't know to which pill you are specifically referring. If it is an extract of the plant, fine whatever, you are eating THC. If it is the synthesized pill of lab replicated THC then no thank you, that is congruent to fail.

I will also say logically it is unlikely that tobacco has less chemicals and carcinogens than cannabis, being that tobacco is sprayed with some nasty stuff. Most grow ops spray with seaweed tea, maybe some b vitamins.

You need to get through the government lies and read the schaffer commissions report for nixon, it concluded cannabis poses no harm to society and should be legalized, regulated, and taxed.

Why is cannabis not legal?Thats the easy one, industrial interests.

Cotton industryPaper industryOil industryPrivatized prison system

Not to mention how f'ed our agricultural policy is.

Legalize because the prohibition hurts more than it "helps". lol helps.

I am extremely proud of our govt for keeping Marijuana (MJ) under lock and key.

[marlin29311]

Basically anything that gets passed by the NJ government gets a "WTF" from me...

[breadbox]

I am extremely proud of our govt for keeping Marijuana (MJ) under lock and key.

Basically anything that gets passed by the NJ government gets a "WTF" from me...

[audtatious]

What I will not admit to is that cannabis is harmful.

You need to go in front of law makers with your PHD and proof that it is not harmful so you can get the laws changed.

[Armelius]

You need to go in front of law makers with your PHD and proof that it is not harmful so you can get the laws changed.

It's harmful because they can't find anyone able to put a tax stamp on it.

[Watermelonwarrior]

Has anyone watched The Union: The Business Behind Getting High? I don't see how you could watch that movie and still believe it shouldn't be legalized and taxed. For god sakes why don't they legalize hemp?

If you haven't watched the movie at least watch the first 10minshttp://blip.tv/file/1356143/

[480sx]

I am extremely proud of our govt for keeping Marijuana (MJ) under lock and key.

They got a plant that grows in the wild locked down. Lock and key, man, i havnt seen this stuff in ages! I guess someone must have picked the lock, because i knew people in HIGH SCHOOL who used to throw QP's of BC around for fun. Or maybe you should inform the nearly 1 million people a year who get put in jail for possession of MJ. I guess they too somehow picked the lock.

Why dont you take a look at some of the statistics. ~50 percent of students have tried MJ before they leave High School. Over 83 million Americans over the age of 12 have tried marijuana at least once. This number is increasing exponentially.

After that, why dont you try to go to any bar, and ask a couple people if they can get you weed. You'll find someone within 5 people(really depends on where you are) if your not a sketch ball. Fact is, its the most widely used drug in America. That includes prescription drugs too.

Proud of America for Prohibition. Prohibition interestingly enough of a substance more benign than alcohol. Hey, why dont you take a history lesson and tell us how that worked out in the 30's? Or maybe think about all the non violent drug offenders in jails and the court system that cost tax payers billions. Or the Narc units that instead of catching murderers, rapists pedophiles ect, are looking for drug dealers. Drug dealers that are interestingly enough sponsored by prohibition. Or the good people that smoke pot who get canned from jobs, spend time in jail, and get permanent records for something that grows in the fvking ground.

Grow a pair and try to attack my position. Attack NORML's position. Or get the fvk out of the politics section and let men talk. Your one liners and verbose traps arnt going to work here guy. You say something, you back it up, or you dont say it at all. Or you could just keep on spewing garbage and making a fool out of yourself. Either way.
Modified by 480sx at 12:38 AM 2/26/2009

[audtatious]

It's harmful because they can't find anyone able to put a tax stamp on it.

That's part of it.

[BusyBadger]

Whenever I see a tard wearing his pants like that, all that comes to mind is "what a stupid looking retard".

I'm with you there. On those rare occasions I need to actually enter the mall where I live and I see one of those clueless kids wearing a flat billed hat with the bill sticking off at a 30 or 45 degree angle I feel the need to educate them.

The comment is spoken in a hushed "your fly is open tone" and usually goes something like, "Your hat isn't quite straight" and then I direct them to a nearby store with a mirror or to the closest restroom but I recently added, "You wouldn't have that problem with a sock hat/beanie."

Moral: Its your right to dress like an idiot, just as its my right to point it out.

Somehow it all reminds me of a Mad TV skit I saw a long time ago.

[wawazat8402]

There is a marijuana tax stamp. Thats part of the charges when you are caught growing. A lot of people collect the various stamps each state offers as well, haha. If you dont have the stamp they add tax evasion to the list and if you do buy the stamp it gives them the power of search and seizure for suspicion.

BTW, I agree with Wheelman wholeheartedly. It really irks me that our prison system is housing people for victimless crime. To me, its the most obvious solution to overcrowding in the penal system. Release those who had no victim and theres more room for those who chose to harm another human being. We may even be able to fit a few more white-collar guys that manipulated the system to the point that their companies failed, then took their 20mil bonus and bailed.

[WDRacing]

SIG

[Jacko3]

They got a plant that grows in the wild locked down. Lock and key, man, i havnt seen this stuff in ages! I guess someone must have picked the lock, because i knew people in HIGH SCHOOL who used to throw QP's of BC around for fun. Or maybe you should inform the nearly 1 million people a year who get put in jail for possession of MJ. I guess they too somehow picked the lock.

Why dont you take a look at some of the statistics. ~50 percent of students have tried MJ before they leave High School. Over 83 million Americans over the age of 12 have tried marijuana at least once. This number is increasing exponentially.

After that, why dont you try to go to any bar, and ask a couple people if they can get you weed. You'll find someone within 5 people(really depends on where you are) if your not a sketch ball. Fact is, its the most widely used drug in America. That includes prescription drugs too.

Proud of America for Prohibition. Prohibition interestingly enough of a substance more benign than alcohol. Hey, why dont you take a history lesson and tell us how that worked out in the 30's? Or maybe think about all the non violent drug offenders in jails and the court system that cost tax payers billions. Or the Narc units that instead of catching murderers, rapists pedophiles ect, are looking for drug dealers. Drug dealers that are interestingly enough sponsored by prohibition. Or the good people that smoke pot who get canned from jobs, spend time in jail, and get permanent records for something that grows in the fvking ground.

Grow a pair and try to attack my position. Attack NORML's position. Or get the fvk out of the politics section and let men talk. Your one liners and verbose traps arnt going to work here guy. You say something, you back it up, or you dont say it at all. Or you could just keep on spewing garbage and making a fool out of yourself. Either way.

Modified by 480sx at 12:38 AM 2/26/2009

http://blogs.usatoday.com/bett....html

Make sure the balls to stick with MJ is there.

[480sx]

You link me to an article that basically says that people who are chronic ganja smokers could potentially be at a higher risk of testicular cancer than that of a normal person. THIS ONE STUDY(i dont want to go in depth with you and research the study, this is just to easy to need more ammunition) says that rates of testicular cancer doubled for a pot head Vs a normal person.

There is no direct link between Testicular cancer and Chronic weed smoking. In addition, 8,100 people will be diagnosed with TC this year.

Thats your defense? That one study says that MJ has a correlation with a higher level of testicular cancer. Correlation does not imply causation. With the tiny level of MJ available for testing, any study like this must come under serious scrutiny because of government regulations over MJ. It is classified as a type 1 narcotic, same as Heroine, ect ect. Testing its effects legally and for scientific purposes is nearly impossible to get grants or approval for, therefor, little to no scientific data exists on the effects of MJ smoking. There is still 1000's of years worth of anecdotal evidence to support the theory that its pretty much benign.

~0.0053% of men in America will be diagnosed with Testicular Cancer this year.

So lets say that its true, MJ causes double the amount of testicular cancer. Im going to take a ball park estimate and say that.. 20 percent of America could be considered as chronic smokers at least one point in their lives. Thats 60,764,928 people. Since this study effects only men, im going to cut that number in half. Were now left with 30,382,464 people. We already know the number of people diagnosed with testicular cancer per year, thats 8,100. Lets reduce it by 80 percent, to 'scale' these numbers down. Comes up with 1,620 people of those 30,382,464 who would normally be diagnosed with TC and have a ~0.0053% chance of being diagnosed.

So ill double that number to humor your argument, and we come up with 3,240 chronic smokers that will be diagnosed with TC this year. That puts the percentage of chronic smokers diagnosed with TC this year up to ~.0107.

This percentage is, surprise! Very freaken close!

~350 people died from TC last year. This is because of newer technology such as linear accelerators(really cool machines) and the ever progressing field of oncology. That means, 70 of those deaths COULD have been caused by chronic weed use.

So your argument is basically that, because there is a POSSIBILITY that a ~.0054% difference in the rate that a chronic weed smoker gets diagnosed with testicular cancer vs the non smoker exists, it should be illegal? Because POSSIBLY 70 additional people died because of TC during a year because of their own choices Herb should be illegal?

Oh man.. I really want to continue on why you fail so hard but, i think im going to leave it at this and see how you reply.
Modified by 480sx at 3:51 PM 2/26/2009

[breadbox]

^^^^thank you I started banging out a similar response but yours is funnier.

I find it interesting that when people are harshing on marijuana they often say "smoke". I read things all the time from people comparing cigarettes to Cannabis smoke, when the reality is many MMJ prefer not to smoke it but eat Cannabutter products, tinctures, vaporizing, there may be more. These are methods in which the plant material is not cumbusted by fire. The greatest underlying force keeping MMJ down is big pharma. Who only wants you to buy their patented chemical formulas. It is in Big Pharma's best interest to not allow patients to grow their own medicine.

Why are DMT, shrooms, and ibogaine illegal? Answer, you can extract/find them yourselves and can be used to treat a variety of things.

"In ancient Germanic culture cannabis was associated with the Germanic love goddess Freya. The harvesting of the plant was connected with an erotic high festival. It was believed that Freya lived as a fertile force in the plant's feminine flowers and by ingesting them one became influenced by this divine force. (Rätsch 2003)."

German heritage I am proud to repeat. I bet they used to make Cannabeer, not surprising being that hops and cannabis are related.

[OriginalWheelman]

Humanity has a long history with intoxicants of every sort. One thing analogous to almost every culture is the recreational use of intoxicants. I believe that we as humans need to escape from the reality. Mead, beer, wine, etc. According to Greek myths, Dionysus was made a god for his contribution to humanity. What was his contribution? He invented WINE.

I'm not saying that MJ has no bad side effects. The truth of the matter is, that it has very little, even when compared to legal drugs. There is no such thing as a drug w/o side effects. Ibuprofen, one of the mildest drugs we have, will kill your liver with prolonged habitual use. I was on a daily regiment for 4 years while I was dealing with my back problems, and I had to go for an annual liver test to make sure my liver wasn't going to fail. I was on an antidepressant for a while as a teen, after being diagnosed "chronic depressive". After a week, I was addicted, I mean addicted. When I went back to see my doctor, he asked how it was going, and if I had any negative side effects. I KNEW I was having memory issues, and I was on edge, but I lied. I lied and said I had no side effects, all the while arguing with myself inside TRYING to admit I had a memory problem. I failed. I stayed on that stuff for months before (thank god) I lost my insurance. Trust me, don't let anyone you know on anti depressants, ever. I guess my point is, from my own personal experience, the legal drugs are JUST as bad, if not worse, than the illegal ones.

*Added* Well, with the statute of limitations expired, I suppose I can discuss this. When I was in my late teens early 20s I smoked a lot of MJ. A lot. The memory problems I experienced always stopped after the drugs were out of my system. While under the influence it is harder to do complex tasks and one's perception does drop considerably. I would say, from my experience, that smoking a gram of good pot, is about equivalent to having two - three shots. The intoxication is similar, though not the same, drunk makes you over confident and reckless, stoned makes you scared and paranoid. Drunk makes you numb, stoned makes you feel everything. From my experience stoners are safer than drunks. That's not to say safe, as the perception inhibition makes them generally less safe than sober people.

[480sx]

Thanks.

I was going to get into the whole vaporizing, or ingesting it part too, but i didnt want to get into a book.

So jacko, nothing to say? Not even a bunch of repeating emotes and laughter? Are you that pwned?

[WDRacing]

My latest Ezine article from NORML shows that CA is putting forth the first Bill to reform the law to legalize the growth and sale of marijuana and it's supposed to generate 1.4 BILLION dollars for CA alone....per year.

Yeah...bad idea to legalize it.

Here's an idea I think everyone should use in ALL instances and choices in life. If you don't like it...DON'T DO IT!!! But GTFO of my business you string pulling idiots.

Don't like weed, don't smoke it. Don't like Gay sex, try to avoid placing another dudes pen15 in your mouth.Don't agree with stem cell research, fine when we make breakthroughs and your kid needs his spinal cord unf***ed, he gets to ride a wheelchair instead you pompous prick.

Stop deciding whats best for other people...period. If it isn't bothering you...then mind your own damn business. Can't do that, kill yourself.

WD