The Q45: what a stupid car.

[DoinkMobb]

So some Japanese dudes decided to put a 300 HP V8 in a large luxury sedan. OK fine, whatever.

But then they took a second look and decided that perhaps a vacuum line needed to be added, way back here where no human hand could possibly fit. And then another and another. And then they needed 40000 bolts to hold everything together under the hood. Why not engineer things in a such a way that something has to be destroyed, mangled and/or bent if you ever want to remove that item or another item in the immediate vicinity? I've never worked on such a convoluted, cramped and complex engine bay in my life.

It's like a Rube Goldberg design in there. It's insane. Fortunately, I have small feminine hands, but even so, I had no room to manuever. Everything is in it's own way. This car is a nightmare to work on. How was this thing put together at the factory? Did tiny elves assemble everything with tiny elf tools, all while Infiniti engineers are pointing at the engine, laughing heartily and saying "Man, can you imagine how pissed somebody will be if they ever attempt to work on this car themselves?!?!"

In case you are wondering why I now despise my Q45, it's because I removed the plenum. Take my advice: don't do it. Leave it alone. It's not for amateurs. While the plenum was off, I decided to change the sparkplugs and valve cover gaskets too. The sparkplugs weren't too bad, but the driver's side VC was just...annoying and aggravating. I was going to do the passenger side too, but thought "screw it, I'll do it at another time". And the knock sensors? No, I'm not doing those. Don't talk me into it, I'm not going to attempt it.

At this point, the sparkplugs have been replaced, the driver's side VC gasket is done, the throttle body, EGR, plenum and AAC have all been cleaned (still need to clean the MAF) and I've replaced as many hoses as I can reach. Hopefully tomorrow I can re-install the plenum and re-hook up the 11 million vacuum lines and coolant lines correctly.

I swear...I swear to those heartless, sadistic Infiniti engineers, that if my car doesn't start tomorrow, I'm pushing it into a swamp and leaving if for dead. Screw it. I'll go back to Subarus, cars that are designed to be user friendly enough to the average mechanic.

In conclusion, the Infiniti Q45 is a stupid car and I hate it.

[paranoidjack]

Alrighty then!

[Haitian_King]

So some Japanese dudes decided to put a 300 HP V8 in a large luxury sedan. OK fine, whatever.

But then they took a second look and decided that perhaps a vacuum line needed to be added, way back here where no human hand could possibly fit. And then another and another. And then they needed 40000 bolts to hold everything together under the hood. Why not engineer things in a such a way that something has to be destroyed, mangled and/or bent if you ever want to remove that item or another item in the immediate vicinity? I've never worked on such a convoluted, cramped and complex engine bay in my life.

It's like a Rube Goldberg design in there. It's insane. Fortunately, I have small feminine hands, but even so, I had no room to manuever. Everything is in it's own way. This car is a nightmare to work on. How was this thing put together at the factory? Did tiny elves assemble everything with tiny elf tools, all while Infiniti engineers are pointing at the engine, laughing heartily and saying "Man, can you imagine how pissed somebody will be if they ever attempt to work on this car themselves?!?!"

In case you are wondering why I now despise my Q45, it's because I removed the plenum. Take my advice: don't do it. Leave it alone. It's not for amateurs. While the plenum was off, I decided to change the sparkplugs and valve cover gaskets too. The sparkplugs weren't too bad, but the driver's side VC was just...annoying and aggravating. I was going to do the passenger side too, but thought "screw it, I'll do it at another time". And the knock sensors? No, I'm not doing those. Don't talk me into it, I'm not going to attempt it.

At this point, the sparkplugs have been replaced, the driver's side VC gasket is done, the throttle body, EGR, plenum and AAC have all been cleaned (still need to clean the MAF) and I've replaced as many hoses as I can reach. Hopefully tomorrow I can re-install the plenum and re-hook up the 11 million vacuum lines and coolant lines correctly.

I swear...I swear to those heartless, sadistic Infiniti engineers, that if my car doesn't start tomorrow, I'm pushing it into a swamp and leaving if for dead. Screw it. I'll go back to Subarus, cars that are designed to be user friendly enough to the average mechanic.

In conclusion, the Infiniti Q45 is a stupid car and I hate it.

I've been there. But then when it's running right, it feels like it's all worth it.

Don't give up!

I believe in you!

[Raxephon]

The problem is that you haven't removed the plenum enough times for it to become easy to do.

The first 3 times I removed my plenum it was a PITA, but after the 4th time it was like clockwork.

[maxnix]

You need to read Q45tech's early posts. The Q45 and President were designed for upper level executives who had the car serviced every 90 days by a factory trained technicians. DIY bohunks in the US maintaining them was not even on their radar.

[Jesda]

LOL, I've often felt the same. But when youre done you want to say "I AM THE GOD OF ALL CARS!" Plus, you have a Q to drive, which is always a positive thing.

Once you've wrenched on a Q, almost anything else is a piece of cake. Have a fan and radio nearby and take your time.

[SynisterQ]

. I'll go back to Subarus, cars that are designed to be user friendly enough to the average mechanic.

In conclusion, the Infiniti Q45 is a stupid car and I hate it.

Man, I've always been afraid to get a Subaru because of the horizontally opposed engines they use. That timing belt job seems hard as hell to do.

[Q45tech]

Again comparing V8 to 4 cylinders.Try working on any 90+ Foreign V8 and you will see the same or different problems. Try changing the timing belts on a Lexus or Audi V8 or the under plenum Starter on a Lexus. Try changing the 16 sparkplugs and wires and coils on a Mercedes V8.

Rich peoples cars, owned and driven by poor people who think they can go to Azone or PoopBoys.

People lust after the foreign lux 0 sports until they buy one with 100k+ on the clock.

After you work on your first 50 Q you see how logical and easy everything is to change on a lift with $36,000 worth of tools.

[goody90q45]

After you work on your first 50 Q you see how logical and easy everything is to change on a lift with $36,000 worth of tools.

If I had a lift and could stand under my Q and not have to lay on my back to work on it DIY repairs would be a heck of a lot easier. Checking and changing belts, idler pulleys and fan clutch was a major ordeal yesterday but this old f@rt is still able to remain upright and talk about it today. .

[Q45tech]

At 60, I can't not worth the pain why I pay techs to do all the work and I do all the thinking.

To think I used to make extra money in high school and college climbing 1000' towers to change light bulbs. Hang below heliocopters and 250' cranes on a cable to sight microwave paths. All my early fun caught up with me.

Bending over a fender all day or sliding under a car on stands is for the young AND FOOLISH.

[RAP]

LOL, I've often felt the same. But when youre done you want to say "I AM THE GOD OF ALL CARS!" Plus, you have a Q to drive, which is always a positive thing.

Once you've wrenched on a Q, almost anything else is a piece of cake. Have a fan and radio nearby and take your time.

NON OF 'EM ARE PIECES OF CAKE. Some may have more frosting than others.

Actually I am of the opinion that Japanese car builders/engineers put more thought into the arrangement and placement of components as opposed to other builders and I do mean to include US car builders.

But the original poster is correct as working on these V8's can be frustrating for the beginners. A test of patience for sure.

Jack.

[oldmako]

Hey Doink,

Thanks for the great read! It's always nice to begin a Sunday reading, and your description of the cars complex innards was a hoot. I suspect that much of what you posted was true, but also slightly tongue in cheek. You love that damn thing don't ya? It's a sickness. You probably keep your tools clean and organized as well.

I have yet to venture south (of the plenum) and I am in no great hurry to do so. That day is coming I'm sure. My car is a 99, so I cannot compare the labor involved but I suspect the the 4.5's are a bit more difficult to work on than the puny 4.1s.

My time under the hood has been brief but when I replaced the belts and spark plugs I was pleasantly surprised that the work wasn't as difficult as I feared. I followed Jesda's advice and worked slowly and had tunes and 12 ounce malt refreshments nearby. Brought the stress level way down.

I'd love to hear about your next repair!

[xerexabante]

Again comparing V8 to 4 cylinders.Try working on any 90+ Foreign V8 and you will see the same or different problems. Try changing the timing belts on a Lexus or Audi V8 or the under plenum Starter on a Lexus. Try changing the 16 sparkplugs and wires and coils on a Mercedes V8.

Rich peoples cars, owned and driven by poor people who think they can go to Azone or PoopBoys.

People lust after the foreign lux 0 sports until they buy one with 100k+ on the clock.

After you work on your first 50 Q you see how logical and easy everything is to change on a lift with $36,000 worth of tools.

I second you on those LS400 Timing belt, starter job.

We just took in an LS400 for a Head job, it took my guy a solid 3 days to slap that thing together. He does not want to do that again.

[DoinkMobb]

Hopefully by the end of the day today, I'll hate my car less. I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Once I get the car up and running, I'll keep it for maybe another year, but then that's it. I don't have the time, the money or the patience for the upkeep. DIY maintenance is possible, but so time consuming and still pretty damn expensive.

Not to mention the fact that my entire body aches after a day of leaning over the engine, contorting in weird ways, trying to pull hoses and whatnot.

[qship96]

Sounds like your ready for a brand new Honda Civic or Accord- gas n go, no repair issues, and the new car smell and experience

[Rex]

I recall a few early 80's domestic V8 cars that required going through the wheel wells to change the spark plugs. One specifically required you to drill wholes if you choose not to pull the engine for a spark plug change

Basically, over the years as cars have gotten smaller (compare Q engine compartment to 80's Caprice) and the technology and smog "attachments" have increased, working under the hood has gotten more and more difficult. If the Q's is frustrating, never offer to help someone with am90's 300z twin turbo.

[Roshie]

I did that same job on my 92 last week end, Took me 2 days to complete.After day 1 the lower back pain was intense, day 2 I relized raising the front end about a foot with jack stands made things a bit easier ( if your tall ) When you start your Q tonight and it runs like crap and you go over all those hoses and find the ones you forgot you'll be fine. After its all over I recommend 4 ibruprofins and a couple of gin & tonics

[SUB ZERO CAR FANATIC]

My experience on the Q wasnt as frustrating as some since i had the engine out i could easily get to everything.I think what i hated the most was the mounting screws for the camshaft bearings, talk about time consumingand aggrevating!!

I think they only have 25 or so foot lbs. of torque,but it feels more like 125 pounds of torque whenyour trying top break them loose without breakingthem off.

[maxnix]

While the plenum was off, I decided to change the sparkplugs and valve cover gaskets too. The sparkplugs weren't too bad, but the driver's side VC was just...annoying and aggravating. I was going to do the passenger side too, but thought "screw it, I'll do it at another time". And the knock sensors? No, I'm not doing those. Don't talk me into it, I'm not going to attempt it.

If you replaced all the hoses, then the KS were right there.

If you had done that and the passenger side VC, you would have been good another 10 years or 100K miles. Part of VH45DE bonding is knowing you had a hand in keeping it running so well.

And I do remember some GM small body with a big block that the whole engine had to be lifted to remove #7 plug. All in all, VH45DE is not that bad compared to many others.
Modified by maxnix at 2:34 PM 4/6/2008

[qship96]

I think you are remembering the first car I ever bought-1979 Chevy Monza Spyder with the 305 V8 engine- engine required lifting to get to plugs

Strange, when I factory ordered it, I specified the V8 option, a/c, and manual transmission- got a call a few weeks later from dealer informing me only way to get the v8 with a/c was to get the auto transmission{ manual transmission cars could not get a/c with the v8 option-how dumb was that?}

A fun little car that ended up being a huge pile of problems and put together poorly- engine blew smoke before 50K, and poor body integrity

[konatown]

I recall a few early 80's domestic V8 cars that required going through the wheel wells to change the spark plugs. One specifically required you to drill wholes if you choose not to pull the engine for a spark plug change

Basically, over the years as cars have gotten smaller (compare Q engine compartment to 80's Caprice) and the technology and smog "attachments" have increased, working under the hood has gotten more and more difficult. If the Q's is frustrating, never offer to help someone with am90's 300z twin turbo.

The engine bay of the Z32 Twin Turbo is the most unholy evil an engineering department has ever unleashed on this world. Or you could argue that its one of the most miraculous packaging jobs in history.

The new LS460/600 requires you to remove the engine and exhaust manifold to change the starter. Pretty ridiculous, we've already done one.

[Kiven422]

It was hard at first... but its easy after you do it enough times.

Check out the engine bay of a Camaro.... so STUPID!!!!! but its easier to work on-a friend was checking the transmission fluid dipstick... he went to put it back in and it caught in the alternator and the car was like VRRROOOOIIMM! and turned off it was hilarious.

I used to work at an european auto repair shop and believe me you got the easiest of the V8s to work on.

[Jesda]

^^^Not fun.

The Cadillac Seville STS with the Northstar V8, in my opinion, is quite a bit nicer to drive than the Q. Unfortunately, the transversely mounted 4.6L V8 makes maintenance a nightmare, worsened by the car being less reliable than the LS400 and Q45.

A few things on the Q are even easier to do than on the third-generation (89-94) Maxima, to my surprise, like belts and pulleys.

The easiest FWD car I've worked on is the Chrysler LHS, 3.5 HO SOHC. Despite being a FWD car, the engine is longitudinally mounted. Once you unbolt the wiper assembly covering the rear, you have very easy access to everything. Great engine, if not the most sophisticated.

Easiest of all? The BMW E34 that I owned for a month.Had the M20 I6 with plenty of space and a superbly logical layout. Folks were able to swap out the clutch in 20 minutes!

[jmorasch]

Hopefully by the end of the day today, I'll hate my car less. I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.

you can see the light,just hope its not a train..........I know how you feel.

[jimbyjimb]

I could be talking out of my butt here as I have yet to wrench on the Q more than the basics, BUT...

I've worked on anything from a VW Bus to a 2005 Viper to a 1964 Studebaker. Ford FE motors to Twin Turbo Audi V-6's to Honda V-4 motorcycles, and if those experiences over the years have anything to say about what I see under my Q's hood then I am NOT worried about a thing. If you think that's cramped look at any new VW with anything bigger than a Briggs & Stratton underhood, or even worse a late model Intrepid with a 3.2 or 3.5. Non-transverse front-drivers are the BIGGEST nightmare on the face of the Earth, with one exception I've seen. Although old Subaru's, as you mentioned, are spacious as ever (haven't seen any newer ones). You're probably right that it isn't for amatuers, but then again, what post 1980 really is besides a select few V-8 powered Americans and some I-4 Hondas (which can be a complete pain in their own special, special ways). I think the biggest automotive nightmare I've ever seen in my life has to be the Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4. All late cars, that I've seen, are built with the expressed purpose of keeping anybody's hands but those of the service techs at the dealers off of them, that's where the dealers make their cash. In short, if it isn't a 1959 Pontiac Catalina 389 in said Catalina, then it just ain't gunna be a picnic. Now, sigh, to go check the chain guides...
Modified by jimbyjimb at 4:09 AM 4/11/2008

[tmorgan4]

.....Twin Turbo Audi V-6's .....

2.7T? I helped a friend pull off his downpipes once. Don't ever want to do that again.

[jimbyjimb]

I hear you. Thankfully that one was just fluids, a tune-up and a brake job. Helped him change out his airbox too. The turbo placement on these things makes me want to scream. Volkswagen products kill me especially, so tightly put together and user-unfriendly. Even the 1.8T is a nightmarish fiend from hell. But in all reality, what isn't? I try to keep in the state of mind that it's all a big pain in the arse, no matter what broke in where. Too bad its so angering, and yet, so satisfying and fun at the same time...

[qsiguy]

It's definitely high on the pain in the butt list of repairs to do in the Q. You have to admit that when you got that valve cover off it was a thing of beauty! The dual cams and all those roller rockers, very cool.

I can't believe you got that far and left one valve cover gasket undone and didn't do the knock sensors. Almost as if you want to go back and do it again in the near future! While I was in there I did every possible repair/replacement because I do NOT want to go back in there for 5-10 years.

[DrewQ45]

In conclusion, the Infiniti Q45 is a stupid car and I hate it.

I'm can wholly sympathize. Nothing like the time I tried replacing my Alternator and pulled it out from the TOP. I was speaking in tongues and cussing in Chinese. Had to ban my daughter from the garage. It's also the reason why I changed my plugs at 120K back in 2000 and they are still in there at 228K.

[qship96]

I'm can wholly sympathize. Nothing like the time I tried replacing my Alternator and pulled it out from the TOP. I was speaking in tongues and cussing in Chinese. Had to ban my daughter from the garage. It's also the reason why I changed my plugs at 120K back in 2000 and they are still in there at 228K.

I ran plugs from 69,000 miles til 201,000 miles {132,000 on plugs} and they came out without any difficulty and all looked good- car ran/idled no different with new plugs- only changed them because valvecover gaskets needed to be changed due to seeping oil. Early plug changing is a total waste of time and money, only do them at valve cover reseal time.