The Perfect KA-T Install Gone Wrong

[Jookmasta]

Well i figured i share my experience as a forewarning to all that try this approach.

First off, let me say that none of this would be possible without help from Rick (240sxsickness), Will (willfastbackse), and provisional information from wdracing, klattr, and the nico and ka-t.org forums. So this all started pretty much last december. I first got the safc installed before christmas, and the mechanical oil pressure gauge was installed before that. Then came the Blitz DTT (boost gauge and turbo timer) which was installed mid January. After that, the SR 370cc injectors went in early february and the tapped oil pan was in about two weeks ago. Last but not least, my narrowband A/F went in about a week ago due to it being free!

So obviously there was really nothing else left to mount up except the oil lines, turbo, manifold, BOV, and intercooler. Obviously the piping had to be done when those things were installed and couldnt be fabricated without them on the car. Well it came down to this past thursday where we (me and Will) figured that we could knock it out and then go to the gym. So we started when i got out of class at four. Everything was running smoothly, got the front bumper off, aem intake off, exhaust mani, heat shield, egr stuff, and factory DP off by about seven-seven thirty. So all that was needed now was to install the stuff and be out to the gym by ten.

What do you think happened at seven thirty? RAIN! RAIN! RAIN! Now we were working on the car in his car port on the side of his house and he happens to have a nice big street light installed on the side of his house but this wasnt ordinary rain. This rain was cold (at least by our south florida standards) and the rain didnt stop at all the entire nite. Well we went to put on the manifold and turbo at the same time and it wouldnt clear due to the manifold being a side mount. This complicated things some what as now we had to put on the mani first and then the turbo. (not really complicated things but the car port isnt covered). So we get the mani on in about ten to fifteen minutes. Then the turbo is what killed a good majority of the time. Four bolts hold the turbo to the mani. This took about an hour and a half or so due to slippery hands, back pains and the turbo not sitting properly due to the A/C line. After about an hour and a half or so, the turbo is finally bolted on and rain is still coming down.

This is where all hell broke loose (and can be found in another thread). Well I go to install the feed line and i get the line ready with the teflon tape. I first installed the feed line into the turbo and that was all good. Then i went to install the other end of it into my fitting which has the extra port for the turbo oil feed line. When i first looked at it, I couldnt get to it without removing the oil filter. So then i removed the oil filter and proceeded to get the plug out of the hole which i needed. This i must say was a daunting task for me as for anyone that has dealt with anything in that area, there is no room and the plug was an allen key one. This took me about half an hour to get the plug out due to me trying to find the right key to use and me only being able to get about a 4 cm movement for each turn. Finally the plug was out and then it was just to screw in the oil feed line. That was done in about three min and all was well for now. Then I had to move back the fitting so that i could put on back the oil filter. This is where in my other thread, the fitting broke off into the oil pressure switch hole. It was a clean cut and the broken piece is still threaded into the block. I think it broke due to me getting at it at a bad angle or to the rain and my frustration but i was turning it left so i dont know why.

Now when the fitting broke, my ten foot SS line for my mechanical oil pressure gauge also broke. This could have also broken the fitting due to the strenght of those SS lines. So we left the car after that occurred cuz that just brought down all the moral and it was still raining, and it was eleven thirty at nite (had class at nine thirty).

So he dropped me off and we planned to work on it the next morning. So after getting about five hours of sleep, i rode with my Dad to the car and we reached the car at around eight. We then proceeded to start on it around eight thirty. We gloated on the broken fitting and then got the intercooler mounted. This took about forty minutes and it was tacked on by brackets and tie straps. Next thing was to get the oil return line on.

So before i went to class, i called the tow truck to come tow the car as they usually take a while to get there. So i went to class and then called Will to see how the progress was going. This was the second speed bump in the process. All that was left to do was the oil return right? This was done by Will himself while i was at class. Needless to say, the oil return hole on the turbo was touching the A/C line and this is what was complicating the turbo to mani bolt on the previous nite. So the tow truck arrived and he had to turn it away since that was a serious problem. No return line = no way to use turbo. This is where the "talk" occurred and we were contemplating on just putting the car back to stock.

I dont know how he did it, but he got it to fit so that was good. Next problem was to get the oil return line attached to the oil pan. This would require cutting of the oil line since the line is 22 inches long. Unfortunately, he wouldnt b able to cut it since u cant cut the line urself with a saw since its already attached to the car.

So he called me to let me know the progress and i called a tow truck again to get there. He scooped me up from campus and then when we got there, the tow truck was already waiting for us. So needless to say, the oil return line didnt get cut yet. So now the car is currently at the muffler shop. It arrived there on friday at four and the shop closed at five so no work was done on it. Then on sat, no work was also done on it due to it being very complicated according to the owner.

The two major issues with the piping is that the intake on the turbo is right in front of the power steering line. This means that there will be a VERY sharp bend in the intake pipe. Next issue is the cold pipe. We didnt get a chance to remove the other resonator on the front of the car by the radiator so hopefully the shop will remove for us. As it is slated, i should have the car back on wed but the car still can't start due to the broken piece. This will hopefully be extracted tomorrow by me and rick so we'll see.

If the piece is extracted, then i can just replace it with the new fitting which should b in the mail by tomorrow. That should clear up that issue and hopefully the muffler shop can come thru with success on the piping. My only other concern is the cost. The muffler shop has given me a quote since they havent really done anything with the car. I am expecting a call tomorrow from them but i really am worried about the cost cuz if it is too much, i may have to tow back the car to Will's place. This shop does good work as they did build the jig that is used for all of the s13 BRM exhausts. So we will see..........sorry for the long post but it had to be done
Modified by Jookmasta at 1:18 AM 3/7/2005

[nissanfanatic]

I'm sorry that your install is such a PITA. Yea that stainless braid line is a ***** to cut. Make sure you wrap it with some electrical tape or equivalent where you plan to cut it. If not, you'll have a birds nest of a cut.

I would advise removing the front bumper to install the intercooler. It makes things much easier.

I hope everything comes together soon for you. Good luck.

[S14tat]

wow that really sucks. is your kit pieced together yourself? or was it an actual kit? if its pieced together, this is why i would never build one on my very own. gettin everything to clear is always an issue unless the parts were made for each other like a rev hard manifold and a on center housing T4 and stuff like that.
Modified by S14tat at 12:04 AM 3/7/2005

[Jookmasta]

no the front bumper was removed. that came off in like twenty minutes................the kit was pieced together by me, but it was previously on an s14

[S14tat]

tga

no the front bumper was removed. that came off in like twenty minutes................the kit was pieced together by me, but it was previously on an s14

thats the main problem right there. the S14 is like 6 inches wider then the S14 and we don't have that air box next to the exhaust manifold and our coolant overflow tank is in a different spot. there are enough difference for a turbo kit to have fitment issues.

[fiznat]

Dude I can tell what your #1 problem is right now.

YOU ARE RUSHING

No offense at all, but seriously: stop it. Bad things happen when you rush, as I'm sure you are well aware by now. You're listing how long each thing took, ordering tow trucks expecting yourself to "finish on time" and all that. Seriously take a step back, breathe, and start taking your time. Bad things will always happen, but they are 10 times worse when you are rushing, and then you get frustrated and you make even more mistakes. If you are working in a carport and it starts raining and your fingers start to slip, STOP WORKING. Honestly it says nothing about your abilities as a mechanic or whatever: everyone gets frustrated and let me tell you-- thats the #1 enemy to your car's health. Chill out! Everything will be all good!

[Jookmasta]

ya the rushing thing is very good point. I guess it would seem rushed but its not until now that i am really realizing the amount of time it will take to get the car up and running. Ill be more at ease when the piece is extracted from the block.

It does suck to see that i managed to break the fitting as i was the one to install it. Dont know what to say............

Thanks for the advice fiznat, rushing really isnt cool when it comes to making progress. This car is my DD tho so that was my main reason for trying to get it all squared away in as little time as possible.

s14tat, what airbox are u referring to? that air box by the strut housing deals with the egr stuff and is gone! Im referring to an A/C line and a resonator up front on the passenger side of the radiator.

[S14tat]

well i was originally reffering to the box aby the strut tower, but now you mention this resonator near the passenger side of the radiator. i have no clue on what your talkin about when you say that ( sorry i don't own a S13 lolz )

[Jookmasta]

well when u put an aftermarket intake on the s13, there is a pipe that isnt connected anymore to the new intake. it looks like a dangling black tube with a diameter of about an inch. Its only hooked to the factory intake and that is on the bottom side of the factory tube. ima take pics and try and post em today for yall

[Jookmasta]

well the news update is in and the piece has been extracted! so no worries on that. now im just waiting on the new air filter and the new oil fiiting to arrive so there may still be a slight chance of me driving the car out of the shop on wed. The only concerns now are just getting the piping done and connecting the oil return line to the pan.

After Rick extracted the piece, we cut about ten inches off of the return line. I think its now at the perfect length for it to get connected but im concerned about the bend it takes so that it screws into the oil pan. If anyone has any pics of their connection to the oil pan while the engine is in the car, i would greatly appreciate it.

[onosqv]

well the news update is in and the piece has been extracted! so no worries on that. now im just waiting on the new air filter and the new oil fiiting to arrive so there may still be a slight chance of me driving the car out of the shop on wed.

Don't forget about tuning homie . Man, I know how you feel about "having to rush it" though. I still need to do more prep work before installing my kit (drop oil pan & relocate batteries).

How much did you get quoted from them anyway? and for how much? that would help give everyone (and me) a rough ballpark.

[Jookmasta]

ya tuning will definitely b up on the priority list. sad thing is is despite all the talk and all the posts and threads about using sr 370cc injectors, no one has a fuel map up on any forums. Seems that everyone that uses the sr injectors ends up using a jwt or enthalpy ecu. My friend has a wideband so we can street tune but its sad to not have a baseline to work with despite all the talk.

As for the quote from the muffler shop, here is the damage: 650-700 bux. Now at first look at this price, ur eyes may have stopped functioning and are already out of the sockets. Many of you may ask WTF or why? well first off, this shop does very very very very good work. If BRM trusted them to make the jig for all of their s13 exhausts, so do i. Secondly, they happen to have a 3" mandrel bender. this could probably be a slight cause to the price. Third, i left the wrong swingvalve on the turbo as well as the bottom resonator which resides on the passenger side of the radiator. So they are not only bending pipes but doing some mechanic work. I figure im still on top due to the fact that my turbo, mani, and intercooler ran me under six hundred. I guess i had to spend some money somewhere as we all know that going ka-t never runs under 1000.

[GEO]

Don't forget about tuning homie . Man, I know how you feel about "having to rush it" though. I still need to do more prep work before installing my kit (drop oil pan & relocate batteries).

How much did you get quoted from them anyway? and for how much? that would help give everyone (and me) a rough ballpark.

Hows the Pimp my ride mobile?

[onosqv]

Hows the Pimp my ride mobile?

The green lantern is doing just dandy. Pictures will be up once she is more significantly completed .

[Jookmasta]

o ya, if anyone has any fuel maps for a 370cc setup running under ten pounds of boost, please share!

[cadet]

jookmasta- I have a greddy spin on oil sandwich adaptor that is far far far superior to the T method (which as found, breaks). Trust me, I've tried both. Mine is for sale at the moment on ebay for pretty cheap, but they are also available from spl parts for around 70 dollars. I wouldn't ever do the oil T thing again.

[Jookmasta]

this isnt a T that im using....... its a hexagonal fitting that accepts three inlets

[cadet]

oh. I dunno, if it threads into the block down there... still a lot more drama required than for the oil sandwich route.

[Jookmasta]

i looked at the oil sandwich thing that ur talkin about and i dont see how i am able to use that to run my turbo oil feed line from. Seems that i can plug in a factory oil pressure sender switch into the oil sandwich sensor plate, but i cant use that to feed oil to either the mechanical oil pressure gauge nor the turbo. Its a good piece, but maybe u or nismofreak could shed more light on that part.

[Def]

Are you using a Nissport adapter? Sounds like my Nissport at least.

You really have to be careful with anything that uses a 1/4" thread like that thing does. Even so, it is CNC'd stainless steel - you really had to be yanking on that thing to snap it...

Like others have said - take it easy when working on your car. Getting in a rush and seeing how fast you can go usually ends up either breaking something or you forgetting to tighten something - both are bad.

[cadet]

it spins on between your filter and your block. You leave your stock oil pressure sensor where it belongs, and you can use a 1/8 bspt to 4 an adaptor (included with my auction, also available from spl parts) to adapt it to 4 an line and run that to your oil feed. It puts the fittings more out in the open (by the oil filter) where you can work on them more easily. It is also stronger and less likely to break if you tug around on it. For the oil pressure gauge, there are still two openings left on the sandwich adaptor, and you can just use an adaptor to those or if you are using a japanese oil pressure gauge (as many are) a lot of them have adaptors to fit 1/8 bspt already. I just like having my connections out on the side of the engine where its easier to turn a wrench, easier to watch them, and if one of them did happen to snap off you can spin the adaptor off, put it in a vice, and use a reverse bit to get it out...when they snap off in the block you are kinda sol a lot of the time. Anyway I guess it might not be for you if you are happy with what you have, its just with the problems you described I thought I might share what I found to be a pretty neat solution (and a lot easier on the knuckles).

[Jookmasta]

understandable cadet, i guess had that part had crossed my path about a year ago, i would b all over it. Nonetheless thanks for the explanation as i can refer others to ur auction.

Update is in, got the car back from the muffler shop and the piping is amazing. I dont think ive seen a sexier 3" DP ever! Bad part is the bill; ended up forking over 749 for everything including tax. Kinda sux to see that bill, but the battery wasnt relocated and everything was mandrel bent. I guess the fact that the car was there since last friday doesnt help the cost. I guess my budget ka-t setup is no longer under a budget..........

O well. So the car was finally put back together last nite and it was started up for the first time. Obviously the first start went smoothly and then died. Started it again and things were ok for the moment. Then Will (willfastbackse) noticed the feed line squirting oil from the fitting. We then tightened that down and that problem was solved. Then we retarded the timing from 24 to about 17 and hooked up the wideband. Unfortunately, we were getting nasty 19s, then 18s, then 17s. It went down to stoich when we put the SAFC around 15. (im using sr 370cc injectors). So then we were like ok, lets check for leaks. Turns out there is a terrible leak right at the oil pan and oil return line. The oil was leaving from the fitting which screws into the oil pan. After close inspection, turns out that the fitting was bent during the tug of war session when we were cutting the line. So needless to say, i think i lost about a quart of oil from the time we started up to this morning. We are currently getting that squared away as i type.

So despite the oil leak, we filled her up with oil and took her out on the road with the wideband. We tuned for low throttle and then it came to tuning for high throttle. I only got one run on high throttle due to some other issues. So technically the car has only boosted once. So i did the run and then the car started to bog, bog really really bad. We barely make it back to the house and we pop the hood. We find that the TPS sensor wasnt connected back in after changing the timing (the safc wont adjust anything with this not plugged in, explains the weird safc setting) and most importantly, the IACV hose blew off the cold pipe (explains the bogging). So we connected the IACV back and we connected back the TPS after starting the car.

We then thought about the plugs and pulled those. Turned out they were completely fouled. I forgot that they were still at stock gap so im sure that didnt help and the car was running rich for the past two weeks due to me being NA and running the 370s. So we regapped the plugs to .30 and placed em back in. Started up the car and a really really rough idle. Like V8 rough. Car wanted to die and i had to feather the gas alot to keep it alive. We figured this was due to the fouled plugs and just called it quits as it was three in the morning.

Currently, we got new plugs this morning as well as the new fitting for the oil return line. The only other concerns is the power steering reservoir as it is chilling in the middle of no where and the BOV. Seems like its not opening up or maybe it needs to break in? I have a type S so did anyone have to adjust it first when they got it? any experiences with the type S would help greatly. Also, it is mounted on the hot pipe if that helps

[cadet]

never heard of a bov breaking in, my brother got a new forge one, guy with an sr got a blitz SS, and my friend a new turbo XS and they worked out of the box.For the PS resevoir I use the stock carbon canister mount, took it off, and screwed it into the fender where the PS resevoir likes to sit. It worked pretty will. Some plummers strap (available anywhere, like walmart, for cheap) could let you do just about the same thing tho. I just like to use what i have laying around.

[Jookmasta]

well i found a serious kink in the vacuum line connected to the BOV. The kink was actually caused by the power steering reservoir so that needs to get relocated asap. Is it ok for me to use longer lines and barb fittings to extend those power steering fluid lines? also cadet, with relocating the carbon canister, isnt that the silver canister up front near the distributor? did you just extend the lines to the canister and then relocated it to the previous location of the power steering reservoir?

So the car still wont idle. I have to keep giving it gas and keeping the revs up at 2K or else the car will stall.

I think my best bet will be to spray some carb cleaner in the IAA valve hose as well as the throttle body cuz i did see some dirt on the throttle body flapper when doin the installation. I will also be resetting the ecu. Any other ideas/suggestions/opinions on fixing this idle issue?

[240SicknessX]

umm, what part of the oil return line was bent? side that the ss line was clamped to, or the side that threads into the oil pan? i didnt do that did i? when i was cutting the return line down to size?

[Jookmasta]

nope, rick u didnt do that. it turned out that we didnt cut enough of the return line. me and will had to cut more of it again so when we did, we had to get the push on hose fitting which screws onto the flare fitting that screws into the oil pan. we were gripping it with pliers and it bent the red part which is connected to the blue part which swivels around.

[Jookmasta]

so we finally got the car up and idling correctly as there was a massive intercooler piping leak where my upper hot pipe was barely connected to the silicone coupling.

Nonetheless, we took it on the road in front of my house and blew off the coupling connecting the cold pipe to the TB. We drove back home, clamped it down again and went back on the road. We got out of the development and hit 1 BAR..............one bar guys aka 14.7 psi..........

So we richened up the safc settings and it ran even better. I am running 370cc SR injectors BTW.So we reached walmart and were like whoa.......good thing the blitz dtt has that peak function or else we wouldnt have kept track of it. So then we head over to discount and once again we hit 1 bar. Unfortunately the BOV wasnt opening so i was still getting compressor surge. We pull over on the side of the road, loosen the type s some more and go again and still no sound. Then we reach back home and the car starts acting up like before. We pop the hood and see that the air filter had fallen off the maf! We also noticed like two bolts dangling and the other two missing. So we tighten back up the filter and problem solved. Then we took off the BOV and opened it up. The type s has two springs inside of it. So we removed one of them and left the thicker one inside of it. BOV problem solved. We also put the swingvalve to a lower notch cuz since the car isnt tuned, i dont want to detonate or anything like that. Plus 1 bar is kinda unsafe without proper tuning. Right now the car is seeing i think around 5 to 8 but boost builds at b/w 2500 and 3000rpms. With the swingvalve set to the 1 bar setting, boost builds between 2 and 2500 rpms.

I cannot express enough thanks to everyone that has helped me with every issue ive had so far. This car is sick when the boost kicks in. Feels like that aerosmith rollercoaster at MGM Studios. If anyone has any questions, dont hesistate to hit me up at the AIM (waggytee)

Ill keep yall posted as to my fuel maps. High throttle point is 35%. High throttle map is:

1000 -23%2000 -23%3000 -15%4000 -15%5000 -15%6000 -15%7000 -15%8000 -15%

low throttle

1000 -27%2000 -23%3000 -23%4000 -23%5000 -23%6000 -23%7000 -23%8000 -23%

This is UNTUNED! I will know for sure on thurs, when i have access to a wideband. Better to run rich then lean. My fuel setup is SR 370cc injectors with a 300zx tt fuel pump and filter. I will make a separate post for this info later on tonite.....

[daniel240]

Great to see you got it up and going. You better be careful, im sure your injectors are maxed out before 1bar.

[Jookmasta]

well remember that 1 bar on a str8 T3 isnt like others........ 1 bar on a t25 is different from 1 bar on a T3/T4. i guess maybe someone could elaborate as to the max that these injectors can run but i always thought of it in terms of HP and not psi

[240SicknessX]

i love ur car........