The Facts

[WDRacing]

Right thread? Or off topic

[dblanehopr]

NOWHERE NEAR OFF TOPIC!!!

THIS IS WHAT IS IS TO BE AMERICAN!

THIS IS WHAT IT IS TO DEBATE REAL ISSUES!

this is what is it to find solutions to the hardest problems we have in our country.

to face it head on and talk about it. not wall it up because it might hurt someone's feelings.

i hope it does hurt someone's feelings, because then that person will speak up, and then the rest will know...

WE FORGOT AN ISSUE!

this is now a real political thread. if you want to start a thread on who you want to vote for, then you bring up BLUNTLY what your most valued issues are. not tipsy around the subject.

this is what revolution is, this is what evolution is. keeping the bad stuff out in the open long enough to talk about them, and trully fix them.

[dblanehopr]

THIS DEBATE RIGHT HERE IS WHAT PUSHED OUR FOREFATHERS INTO CREATING A GOVERNMENT THAT DIDN'T CONTROL BUT LISTENED AND CHANGED YEARLY ALONG WITH WHAT THE PUBLIC NEEDED.

to speak outright about what is trully your needs in America IS PATRIOTIC.

to be politically correct is to be a MONARCHIST IN THE MIDST OF THE AMERCIAN REVOLUTION.

if you're an american, you'd let the debate continue until FINALLY we agree on CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT ENCOMPASS EVERYONE'S IDEAS AND NEEDS. the same thing that gave you the freedom of speech and right to bear arms, that's being taken away from you. the same sort of debate that allowed you to check and balance your leaders.

[Jesda]

DBLane just got back from Hooters and is drunk.

One of my greatest hopes for an Obama Presidency happens to be that we might finally get on track with establishing productive relations with most of the Islamic world

Whackos are whackos to me. Those who want us dead always want us dead.

As for an Obama presidency, I hope he ends up with a GOP congress that forces him to govern center-right while placating the left with some lip service.

Clinton-style -- keeps the crazies happy while the business of business carries on.

[dblanehopr]

lol, i am.

and true that about whackos... we helped them fight off the russians that wanted to install the same pipeline we just installed. similar to africa, we have abused their region.

i'm startin to fade. gnight.

[480sx]

I've, uh...uhm...seen Oba..uh..ah..Obama talk...uhm...uhh...too.

I could care less about Uming, that is just thinking with your mouth open. Generally, from what i have seen, Obama always follows those Um's with statements that support or strengthen his point.

Palin however follows most Um moments with diarrhea of the mouth.

Educational background does not make intelligence.

Agreed

Wouldn't you think that someone who ran the Gov for a State (management + balancing budgets, etc) has more working knowledge of running something than someone who only looks at individual issues at a time?

Working knowledge isnt very difficult to obtain. You have to think, when you are the President of the USA, you have thousands of people working under you that have dedicated their entire lives to knowing the nuances of Govt, and how it works. They have all the working knowledge a president would ever need.

I am not looking for someone with a working knowledge of the Govt, because quite frankly, the govt is working quite horribly at the moment. So, considering we all pretty much accept this fact, why on earth would you want a career politician or someone with 'working knowledge' of how our current failure of a govt works? I would think it would be more of a hindrance than anything else. It would keep that person 'In the box' if you will.

Happens to both sides and I want them all immediately replaced.

The problem is much more deeply rooted than simply the politicians. Its been brought up a couple other times in this thread. Simply kicking them out and replacing them is not going to fix the problems, because then we have a new batch of.. US Politicians...

Someone sure is instituting agendas. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/i...78829Obama is for starting sex education in kindergarten as well although he likes to throw out "age appropriate" with his comments on it.

While someone for sure is, its not necessarily those crazy leftists, although it most likely is. You cant 'Poison the well' simply because some leftists(or dems) are nut jobs, because frankly, there are just as many right winged nuts as there are left.

Idk what the point of you posting link was either, i mean yea it tells you that some random school in a random district had a gay strait alliance thing for their kindergarten class. Maybe if teachers get to the kids before kids get to kids there could be less irrational hate being tossed around. Just a thought, im not really ready to get behind that idea.

This whole idea that sexuality is important cracks me up. It went uncared about for 1000's of years, and all of the sudden in the last 30 or so years it became this huge issue. Who cares who does what in the where? Anyway...

I wasnt aware that Obama supported sex ed in K1, thats kinda alarming IMO. Not sure if its true either, but w/e.

You must be joking. His school records are sealed, his list of donors are sealed, his wife found nothing to be proud about the US until he came into office (yeah, hate may be a strong word), he sucked at writing but all of a sudden came out with this eloquent book in which he has never actually come out and stated that HE wrote it, he has quite the history with socialists, communists, racists, etc. and he's not hiding anything and is MR Red White and Blue.....

Im not saying he doesnt have anything to hide. I guess its kinda like where theres smoke there usually is fire? But its really hard to tell in a situation like this. The right is doing everything they can possibly do to win this election, so you really dont know how much of that information is garbage. You should know, you cant trust much of anything that comes out of the media.

his wife found nothing to be proud about the US until he came into office

This was a messed up statement, i cant argue with that. There is plenty to be proud of in our countries history. HOWEVER...

Honestly man, are you proud to be an American right now? Im going out on a limb, so dont get me wrong I love this country.

Look at what has happened to the US in the last 8 years. We have nearly doubled our deficit. Were fighting so many wars around the globe, two of which are center stage.

Abu Graib, GTMO, torture memos, innocent civilians being killed in Iraq daily, terrorlst orgs being stronger and more organized than they ever have before, our soldiers dying in Iraq in what seems to be another Veitnam like conflict, us beginning to lose the war in Afganistan after we had 'victory', our own economy dragging the worlds economy down, oh.. and the majority of the world hates our country, to name a few things.

Oh hell, why not go on. Patriot act, domestic warrantless surveillance, consistent violation of constitutional rights by the executive branch without any punishment, protection for the phone companies who gave the US govt information that we thought was private, Katrina. Id have to dig up my PLS notes from the last year to get the rest of the ones i know about, but i think thats a pretty good list.

I mean you guys might have seen more of America than i have, but from what iv seen we are not what we used to be.

then he will be derided as much as Bush has been by the left.

I think derided by most of the World is a more accurate statement.

I go off on a tangent enough for you? I wanna make sure you have plenty to retort to.

Thanks!

Post-partisanship doesn't concern me, as I consider the back-and-forth of party politics to be a good vetting system to ensure that all voices are heard.

This is the whole idea behind partisan politics, and a great idea it was. However it doesnt create the back and forth that it used to. Its more of just a constant conflict for the same issues, almost to a stalemate. No longer is there a back-and-forth like their should be able the real issues it would seem, so much bad policy has been implemented in the last 8 years that could have been avoided by true debates and critical thinking, to say nothing of adhearance to laws set out by the Consitution.

I think that for our nations birth, partisan politics was a great idea. However, now that we have established a stable country, IMO its time for a more parliamentary style government. The party lines have blurred so bad in the last 20 years, we really just need to start fresh IMO. I cant why its not possible for one party to represent a large majority of the population. That way, everyones on the same side, and only the issues are discussed. Not whos on whos 'team'.

Especially on the local level, people tend to have great control over the programs supported by their candidates. If the public has decided that the most efficient way to solve a problem is through government, then they are free to vote in people who will create these solutions.

This is how this govt is supposed to work. However it is not how it works at all. While the people might have the ability to have great control, they dont exercise their power. This is the failure of democracy at the moment, a near apathetic population.

That is the next screen name I'm going to use when I sign up for anything.

Rotflmao

Government is like fire. You can cook, you can heat homes, and you can turn garbage into ashes. But just because it does a few things reasonably well doesn't mean you should start burning everything. And burning people without their consent is wrong.

You sound like an anarchist with this analogy. Or maybe an anti-federalist i suppose if you dig deeper into your post.

I agree that the federal government has gotten WAY out of hand however. Its completely lost its touch with the American population, its like its a completely separate entity now with its own agendas that arnt shared by the majority.

this is what revolution is, this is what evolution is. keeping the bad stuff out in the open long enough to talk about them, and truly fix them.

[Jesda]

You sound like an anarchist with this analogy. Or maybe an anti-federalist i suppose if you dig deeper into your post.

I agree that the federal government has gotten WAY out of hand however. Its completely lost its touch with the American population, its like its a completely separate entity now with its own agendas that arnt shared by the majority

That's what happens when you raise taxes -- BOTH parties jump at the money and spend it on their best friends before a penny comes back to us in the form of legitimate services.

The beer and strippers are purchased first, then maybe, if we're lucky, the government will have a moment of sobriety and our electricity bill will get paid. You give the government money, and it finds a way to put itself in debt. You give it even more, and its no better.

Analogy 3: If you feed a hungry overweight person, they'll just eat more the next time around.

[audtatious]

I could care less about Uming, that is just thinking with your mouth open. Generally, from what i have seen, Obama always follows those Um's with statements that support or strengthen his point.

Palin however follows most Um moments with diarrhea of the mouth.

Depends on which side of the issue you are on.

Working knowledge isnt very difficult to obtain. You have to think, when you are the President of the USA, you have thousands of people working under you that have dedicated their entire lives to knowing the nuances of Govt, and how it works. They have all the working knowledge a president would ever need.

So, you are saying a President simply needs to have "presence" in order to run the country because everyone else tells him what to do. Great....

The problem is much more deeply rooted than simply the politicians. Its been brought up a couple other times in this thread. Simply kicking them out and replacing them is not going to fix the problems, because then we have a new batch of.. US Politicians...

I would support getting rid of lobbyists at the Fed level. Let the states determine what they want and then work with their Fed reps to define a way to vote. I would also support mandating that Fed Reps are limited to their salaries and are not invested to make millions off their own legislation. Until then you will have the idiots in politics who are either out for some personal agenda or to make bux.

While someone for sure is, its not necessarily those crazy leftists, although it most likely is. You cant 'Poison the well' simply because some leftists(or dems) are nut jobs, because frankly, there are just as many right winged nuts as there are left.

It depends on whether the nut jobs have more pull in Gov than the "regular people". Ultra-environmental legislation, no parental consent for a 13yo to have an abortion, more and more welfare benefits without working to fix the core problem, etc. etc.. Those are some of the nut jobs initiatives that are being carried out by people like Pelosi, Reid, etc. Other than some people pushing for creationism to be taught in school, I really see no Republican pressing forth "religious agenda".

Idk what the point of you posting link was either, i mean yea it tells you that some random school in a random district had a gay strait alliance thing for their kindergarten class. Maybe if teachers get to the kids before kids get to kids there could be less irrational hate being tossed around. Just a thought, im not really ready to get behind that idea.

When do kids become rational or irrational? A lot of that is brought into their life by their parents and family associations. It's "learned" behavior. Unless you want to implement steps where children are raised in a group of professionals within a Gov controlled environment there is not much you can do about it other than legislate penalties to parents who kids represent those behaviors. That's not going to fly either.

This whole idea that sexuality is important cracks me up. It went uncared about for 1000's of years, and all of the sudden in the last 30 or so years it became this huge issue. Who cares who does what in the where? Anyway...

So, you don't believe there should be boundaries? Some gays want acceptance which is why they are pressing forth for "marriage". Right or wrong that is up to the individual to decide (which the majority did decide in CA until the Gov decided that did not matter). People in general can explore their sexuality at will but there are limits in place and I sure would not want them removed simply because in the past "nobody (supposedly) cared". I'm not against sex-ed but I am against the extension of it to the point that it is being used outside the family to steer thought. That's not the schools concern. Schools are a Gov entity.

I wasnt aware that Obama supported sex ed in K1, thats kinda alarming IMO. Not sure if its true either, but w/e.

Google is your friend

Im not saying he doesnt have anything to hide. I guess its kinda like where theres smoke there usually is fire? But its really hard to tell in a situation like this. The right is doing everything they can possibly do to win this election, so you really dont know how much of that information is garbage. You should know, you cant trust much of anything that comes out of the media.

Which is reason to ignore it and discount it as a falsehood. The majority of Obama supporters don't care one way or another and the Media is sure not going to do their jobs as they are all for ratings, sensationalism and supporting their own causes.

This was a messed up statement, i cant argue with that. There is plenty to be proud of in our countries history. HOWEVER...

Honestly man, are you proud to be an American right now? Im going out on a limb, so dont get me wrong I love this country.

You think I'm not?

Look at what has happened to the US in the last 8 years. We have nearly doubled our deficit. Were fighting so many wars around the globe, two of which are center stage.

We are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would have supported going into Iraq prior to 9/11. I would have supported Bush 1 ignoring the UN and rolling through Bagdad. Hindsight being 20/20 we should have and I doubt we would have had these issues today. The question turns from "should we be in THESE wars" to "shouldn't we be xxxxx" or "we should never be fighting in a clonflict". Who's right and who's wrong? I agree we should not be the Global Police but it seems the UN puts us in that situation all the time and we are in a Catch-22. Look at Darfur for example. They are killing their own and there are those who thinks we should be there fixing the issue instead of Iraq which had similar problems. As the only Super Power left (for now) we do have some responsibility to get the bad guys out, unfortunately there is always concern over the actions or who the real bad guys are. Then you have those who simply want open borders and support everyone... Who's right and who's wrong? Honestly, Clinton didn't take care of business as he should have either or 9/11 would have never happened. No, I'm not saying Clinton caused it either, hindsight is easy to use to make decisions on what we should or should not have done.

Abu Graib, GTMO, torture memos, innocent civilians being killed in Iraq daily, terrorlst orgs being stronger and more organized than they ever have before, our soldiers dying in Iraq in what seems to be another Veitnam like conflict, us beginning to lose the war in Afganistan after we had 'victory', our own economy dragging the worlds economy down, oh.. and the majority of the world hates our country, to name a few things.

Abu Graib should have all the detainees sent to the country where we got them and let their Gov determine what to do. Not going to happen as the left-wing has implemented rules that won't allow that to happen. Innocent civilians are being killed in Iraq by Arabs, not us (tho it does happen from time to time). How is Iraq another Vietnam? We have pretty much won that war. The Iraq Gov has taken over supporting over 70% of their own infrastructure and we are currently working towards withdrawal (which Obama tried to stop prior to the election to make Bush look bad). I also suggest that countries don't "hate" the US quite the way some people like to claim. It's pretty retarded when every time countries have a problem they turn to us for help.

Oh hell, why not go on. Patriot act, domestic warrantless surveillance, consistent violation of constitutional rights by the executive branch without any punishment, protection for the phone companies who gave the US govt information that we thought was private, Katrina. Id have to dig up my PLS notes from the last year to get the rest of the ones i know about, but i think thats a pretty good list.

And the left/Dems are not involved at all, were never part of legislation and do not have their own skeletons in the closet? Please.

I mean you guys might have seen more of America than i have, but from what iv seen we are not what we used to be.

You really think you can look back at your childhood to determine what America was? I sure can't look back at the 60's or 70's to make that determination as I was too young and had no clue (nor cared).

This is the whole idea behind partisan politics, and a great idea it was. However it doesnt create the back and forth that it used to. Its more of just a constant conflict for the same issues, almost to a stalemate. No longer is there a back-and-forth like their should be able the real issues it would seem, so much bad policy has been implemented in the last 8 years that could have been avoided by true debates and critical thinking, to say nothing of adhearance to laws set out by the Consitution.

Yep, and for the last 8 years it's all the Republicans fault.

At least I blame both sides.

I think that for our nations birth, partisan politics was a great idea. However, now that we have established a stable country, IMO its time for a more parliamentary style government. The party lines have blurred so bad in the last 20 years, we really just need to start fresh IMO. I cant why its not possible for one party to represent a large majority of the population. That way, everyones on the same side, and only the issues are discussed. Not whos on whos 'team'.

This is how this govt is supposed to work. However it is not how it works at all. While the people might have the ability to have great control, they dont exercise their power. This is the failure of democracy at the moment, a near apathetic population.

Go you. Let's throw out the Constitution and make something new. What England and other have works far better and they have no problems at all.

You sound like an anarchist with this analogy. Or maybe an anti-federalist i suppose if you dig deeper into your post.

Are you really responding to me with this BS or someone else and screwed up the quote?

I agree that the federal government has gotten WAY out of hand however. Its completely lost its touch with the American population, its like its a completely separate entity now with its own agendas that arnt shared by the majority.

It seems to be shared with someone. Some claim Capitalists, others claim the whack-o's. That's for you to decide.

[Jesda]

The possibly-anarchist comment was a response to me.

[480sx]

Ill go into detail later, but i just want to say one thing while im checkin the politics forum. I can spend hours here, gravity pwns me..

You seem to think that im a very left winged individual whos supporting democrats religiously and blame republicans for all the evils in the world. You would be mistaken.

You also put words into my mouth consistently that im not even coming close to saying.

I am not in favor of this whole political institution. When im talking about those atrocities, im not placing blame on a political party, i never said i was. Im not even placing the blame on simply politicians and the 'system', theres a much deeper root to this problem.

[AZhitman]

480, I can tell you exactly what the problem is.

It's frustration. Plain and simple.

I feel ya there, and I can pretty much tell you're of a similar mindset as many of us here.

It's a frustration that could be alleviated very simply, if our elected officials would JUST BE FREAKING HONEST WITH US.

I want Paulson and Frank to say, "We have no idea how to fix this, it's unprecedented and we're as bewildered as you are."

I want Obama and McCain to say, "Why the hell would either of us WANT this gig? It's a no-win, there's no way in hell we can fix everything, but we'll do the best we can."

I want Pelosi to say, "Excuse me, could you give me a boost? The opening to the woodchipper is too high."

That's what i want.

Frustration, 480. And it's OK. You've got company.

[dblanehopr]

It's a frustration that could be alleviated very simply, if our elected officials would JUST BE FREAKING HONEST WITH US.

freakin A.

it's that ageold thing of once you tell and lie you have to tell thousands more to keep it true.

there's too many seperate convictions in a country that is the same size as 20 other countries. too many differing ideals. and to keep the order they lie to us and pound us into submission... and only recently have we started to really get into the mix of things. since the 60's we've asked too many questions that hit close to home. they wish to believe that the normal guy has no idea the difference between the truth and lies, so they keep going and going until they make for themself all a loophole that gets them out of trouble and keeps us in control.

...if you want to protest, you can't be convicted. otherwise they call you terrorists or disturbing the peace and put you in jail. so millions of us just take it all with a grain of salt and swallow all the bs they spoonfeed us.

like i said before, this is why all the issues that are on the ballots don't really bother me.. one way or another they'll be handled. but for me, government control of my life, and the continuance of taking away freedoms on minor scales to where noone fights back until it's too late.

little steps that we don't see happening until it happens to you personally and your community isn't going to fight it unless THEY screw up and do it big, or on video. but until they screw up to where we see it in plain view, a yearly, widespread retraction of the rights your forfathers set up to protect you will be taken away. and because it's in small "pawn" moves.. you won't see the Checkmate coming up.

[AZhitman]

^ Well-said. And exactly the sentiments of many Americans.

[AZhitman]

Ah, Howie. I love thumping you on top of your adorable balding dome.

Have a seat in your Barcalounger and grab a Kleenex - It's gonna be painful.

Notice how some here like McCain Palin spend more time not discussing actual issues like the economy, health care, taxes because you cannot win on those issues.

Sure we can - I know you won't come back to defend your yammering, but it's just too tempting to let it sit here and fester like a steaming pile of poo.

95% of the American families earn less than $250k a year and therefore will see a tax cut under Obama's tax plan.

Nope. First of all, the 95% number is bogus. But you suck up statistics like a largemouth bass sucks up a big ol' nightcrawler... without thinking there MIGHT be a HOOK buried inside it.

The Obama campaign's claims have failed every fact-check - from CBS to the Washington Post. Nowhere (except in BO's campaign propaganda) is there evidence that McCani's plan would raise taxes on middle class families. Where are the economic experts claiming this? Ooops. There ain't any.

The Dems are the only ones in this race that plan to raise taxes. Documented.

Over 90 million Americans receive employer based healthcare and will have to pay income tax on their healthcare under McCain's misguided healthcare plan.

Failed again, Howie.

This is a common but pathetic mischaracterization. It ONLY focuses on the fact that the value of the employer provided insurance will now show up as additional income for the employees... which it SHOULD, it's a taxable fringe bennie, just like a company car.

What Howie failed to mention - because he doesn't do his homework - is that the GOP's refundable tax credit ($5,000 for families and $2,500 for individuals) will not only offset that tax liability, it will also shield millions of families from a tax increase AND give them MORE dollars to spend on their health care needs.

There's no tax on YOUR premiums, nor are employers taxed for providing health care coverage. There's NO tax on medical expenses like the cost of a procedure or medication either. So, what are you whining about?

Interestingly, the GOP approach is supported by Barack Obama's own Senior Economic Advisor Jason Furman: "we could scrap the current deduction altogether and replace it with progressive tax credits that, together with other changes, would ensure that every American has affordable health insurance."

Gee, great idea, Mr. Furman. Glad to see Obama's surrounded himself with smart people. Go ask him why he opposes his advisor's own plan.

The government takeover of the banks is a partial socialism that McCain voted for.

So did Obama. The difference is, Obama NEVER supported a crackdown. In fact, BO's affiliations with ACORN, one of the CAUSES of this mess, should tell you he has NO claim to any "high ground" on this topic.

Shame on you for even THINKING BO ain't a Socialist.

No one cares anymore about Ayres, Wright, lip stick and all the other BS the right has been throwing up attempting to avoid discussing real issues.

Again, you're assuming YOUR ignorance to an entire population. Not EVERYONE is as gullible as you, and I've just shown you with documented REAL statements why everything you've written is fluff and propaganda.

SO, who's avoiding discussions on the REAL issues?

C'mon, Howie - Point-by-point, mano-a-mano.

You keep setting the ball on the tee, I'll keep bouncing it off the wall at left-center.

If you can't convince me that what I've written is incorrect, you might have to change your vote - After all, you're a smart man, right?

[dblanehopr]

what i really don't like is how whenever you watch ANY politically-versed show that isn't news.. i.e.: Jon Daily, Steven Colbert, Bill Maher ..any information that rallies against Democrats is automatically boo-ed and shoved aside due to ratings. the first two have no choice, but Bill's consistantly gone into subjects that are very dangerous just cuz he can. i like him.

the mear mention of BO or some bullcrap version of thier policies and everyone claps like they've got the slightest idea what's going on. and it's all due to the VERY SAME WAR THEY VOTED TO GO INTO AND THEN SAID "HEY!, PEOPLE ARE DYING, WAR'S SUPPOSED TO BE ALL RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS!" or thinking 'he's democrat and black, so he must be the right and honest guy, cuz the guy that warred was republican and white.'

it's a mob, just like in the Roman Empire. common goals and sense isn't part of the decision process... wanting a silver platter to pick the country's meat off it's bones is.i have issues trusting government too, and i research those issues, but i sure as hell don't go around being a facist because all the cool people around the country feel that way.

it's a damn popularity contest, and truth be told, it's going to ruin this country through riots and stupidity. don't even get me started on that. there's a whole underside to what's happening daily and what's going to happen if it fails in the end. and all the cool guys and followers are gonna act like nothing was their fault then either..

they'll find another way to SKATE AROUND THE TRUTH.

[AZhitman]

....must be past Howie's bedtime.

Wait.... No, he never responds to a good pwning.

[dblanehopr]

he's in the midst of preparing a protest full of stoners, gays, illegals, and welfare recievers.



for the record, i'm not republican either.lol, like i said, i don't vote.

hate me all you want.

[wawazat8402]

I dont hate you. If I didnt feel that one of these candidates somewhat represented my own views, I wouldnt vote this time either. Ive come to terms with the fact that I rarely feel represented in this country, whether in the local or federal levels. Living in a strongly religious/conservative state doesnt help things either. Ive come to appreciate even more what I believe, even though Ive had to learn that the things I believe are not indicative of the majority in this nation.

To add in another point I dont think Ive seen mentioned here yet.... Why is it that despite all the talk of accountability in this campaign, neither side is telling the public that we have played a decent roll in this economic crisis we are in now? I know it could be seen as bad politics, but I was always told when I screwed up and it came back and bit me in the a**. I think people trying to live beyond their means has become the new method for achieving the "American Dream". Credit was the easy way out and now its going to be a long road to digging ourselves back out of this habit. This is what leads me to believe maybe tax cuts arent the answer this time around. I think we are gonna have to ween ourselves off the consumer driven economy we have so enjoyed the last several years and find another way for the country to prosper. Just my opinion, feel free to expand and explain another angle. (Man it was so much fun spending all the money though, haha.)

[szh]

lol, like i said, i don't vote.

Why not?

That is not an attack ... I truly do not understand why people do not exercise this right! Or, are you ineligible for some reason?

Z

[tomkun-s13]

You mean the white grandmother that you threw under the bus as a racist? The one you don't seem to have time to visit even when you are in Hawaii? The one whom you never seem to spend time with either personally or with your family until she is on deaths door?

I don't think growing up in Hawaii is exotic just as I don't think growing up in Alaska is exotic. Then again, Obama didn't necessarily spend his childhood growing up in Hawaii either so I guess he can't claim an exotic lifestyle from that perspective.

Nope, just more like the blue collar rednecks that like venison.

Are we talking his birth name? Oh, you mean what he changed it to....Radical? Maybe. Muslim? no.

Or high after eating mooseburgers

Too general, need to give us more of a statement on this one. Then again, you know what they say about lawyers at the bottom of the sea.

Ah, comes from a common mans background. I assume you mean she can't be near as smart as those Dems that graduate from them there Ivy League schools, right? If it were not for those smart Dems the stupid population would have nobody to straighten them out.

WOW. Sounds really impressive until you break down each one.

Yep. Being a Governor and having to deal with state issues and budgets are things you don't need when you are a VP. Not having that knowledge is what you need as per Obama supporters.



I didn't think real Christians were supposed to preach hate? Maybe I simply went to the wrong church. I feel like I missed out

Seems to be doing the "do what cha wanna do" philosophy of the liberal left. What's wrong with that?



Because Kindergartners all need to know how to put a condom on a banana. Hell, if their parents did not go to Harvard then they probably do.

Instead you should teach your children that having sex at 13 is absolutely fine as long as you have a credit card and the address of the nearest abortion clinic.

Never hurts to give things up to make a huge salary at a hospital where your husband is around to make multi-million dollar donations to while having a friend who will go out of their way to make sure you have the house and property that you want but can't afford.

The "First Dude" should suffer for that DWI from 25 years ago as he is running for VP...errr...wait....errrr.......Maybe he should have just used cocaine and smoked pot while in a school in which no records are available. That makes you a hero. Having a wife that hates the USA, a minister who hates whitey, a racist grandmother, a buddy who probably wrote your first book who is a proclaimed terrorlst, a buddy who helps you get the property that you want that is a felon and mentors who are known socialists and communists makes you the next Democratic Presidential nominee.



Yes, much clearer now.

You sir, are my hero!!!!

[dblanehopr]

Why not?

That is not an attack ... I truly do not understand why people do not exercise this right! Or, are you ineligible for some reason?

Z

no, it's what the guy above you said.. my view are not represented so it's the old saying...if i voted all i'd be doing is "Choosing the Lesser of Two Evils."

the way i see it, is if i don't vote then that means i didn't vote someone into office that's gonna screw everything up. i'd rather have the peace of mind that i didn't just take the nicer of two crap choices, but instead took a precedence and stated through my lack of voting that i don't want any of those bastards in office.

[heliochrome85]

im sure SZ would agree, that voting is a right that people all over the world crawl, run, beg, swim to the US in order to exercise. My parents emigrated to the US in order to give us a better life with better opportunities. Voting is not only a right, its a civic duty. You dont vote, you dont get the luxury of criticizing the direction the country is taking. You have to participate. Millions if not billions of people would kill to have that opportunity.

[AZhitman]

And no matter how "flawed" we are, this is still the most kickass country on the planet. period.

Although I hear Belize is nice most of the year...

[heliochrome85]

hey its nice down here too. SXM has had the same weather every day as long as ive been here. 85/Sunny/light winds.

coupled with topless french women, and a general laid back attitude, its a win win.

also, for reasons passing understanding, infinitis and nissans are all over the place here.

[AZhitman]

Pics or ban.

I spent 3 months in St. Thomas as a kid. Wish I could remember it.

[dblanehopr]

believe me, i feel the same way about our right to vote here. it's a right that's extremely wanted in many countries and we brought about a global revolution through it.even still, i would vote if i had a canidate that i would vote for. and i don't trust the goals of the independents or the political fortitude of the green ballot. i want to vote, there's just noone for me to vote for i can trust. it's that way everywhere yes.i guess when it comes down to it, for me, i feel that if i went my entire life being a good person without the government's involvement in my life i would truly feel i live in a civilized world, country, region.

government was originally a way for a small majority to become wealthy and have power, while saying they're going to protect you from the bandits and warlords. in a lot of ways, it's still the same as it was back in the Bronze Age; in a lot of ways, it's totally different.

personally, i don't see the problem with a good natured, respectable person wanting to be able to live and breathe on their home planet without having someone else force them to live by their standards. similar to the single family farmer that's always taken care of themselves being overrun by a regional leader, an ever-growing empire, or laws based off of the actions of selfish individuals. not to mention, the eminent domain or land taxes coinciding with a rampant overpopulation that thinks their a right to take that very small and still absolutely free plot of land. there's a reason why Jesse James was a hero in the Midwest and West.

at least i'm not the type that goes in and votes for himself.

[dblanehopr]

i feel this is the best country to exist on Earth too, but in general, i'm the type that wants to be able to live his life without being told what to do. especially, if i'm not some selfish thief that caused all the laws and regulations in the first place.

[szh]

no, it's what the guy above you said.. my view are not represented so it's the old saying...if i voted all i'd be doing is "Choosing the Lesser of Two Evils."

But, but, but ... you could always do a write-in!! There is a specific place on the form for this. You do not have to choose between one of the two evils if you do not like either one of them!

The point being that the likelihood of your write-in winning is infinitesimally small, yes, but, you exercised your right to do so. Don't give that right away or waste it - as Tariq mentioned too, there are far too many people who don't have it!

Z

[szh]

im sure SZ would agree, that voting is a right that people all over the world crawl, run, beg, swim to the US in order to exercise. My parents emigrated to the US in order to give us a better life with better opportunities. Voting is not only a right, its a civic duty. You dont vote, you dont get the luxury of criticizing the direction the country is taking. You have to participate. Millions if not billions of people would kill to have that opportunity.

Exactly correct!! Don't voluntarily give away this right. If enough people do this, it goes away ... and far too often, it is too late to easily retrieve it later.

And that would be a disaster for the US!

Z

[dblanehopr]

that's the thing... in the real world *outside of the US or EU*, when people don't like what the government is doing or how they feel about stuff, they create revolutions. just like we used to do.

the only reason why redblooded, cornfed americans would ever allow the government to have control is because some people are not willing to fight for things. the same people that voted Bush into office to start a war, but now complain about deaths and their military relatives being at war. they really thought it was all going to be a clean cut, pushbutton "war"?

and the whole "write-in" is a joke. i'm basically being realistic about this. why would i waste my time "writing in" someone when it would be one-out-of-16 million or so votes? it's real simple to me, i want to be able to live without their hands in my pockets. i want to be able to live like we did not but 100 years ago on a human scale of 10000 years. protected but fully free.

everyone knows the reason why government exists only because of the selfish few. bandits, thieves, and business politicians like kings or congressmen. i'd be perfectly fine without all my money going to federal programs that aren't even available or worthwhile to me. similar to insurance, it's a rip off. give them 50g's over time for a possible one time accident of 1000-2000 dollars. it's no where near beneficial to me.

and it doesn't matter who goes into office, eminent domain will still exist. and not to mention zealots that worry more about honor and respect and a promotion more than the actual people and issues they're supposed to be defending. and that just turns into a major way of ripping ppl's freedoms away no matter if i vote or not. if i vote, all i'm doing is putting someone in office. someone i don't know, someone that is going to pass loophole laws in order to pass his own agenda. given Barack sounds sofar like that's the exact opposite of what he will do, but so does every other politician "CAMPAIGNING". the word campaign alone is from when an empire expanded their borders and forced their ideals on you. whether it be through sword or falsehope words, it still has the same effect.

*shrugs* when you tell me i should vote, you're basically telling me that i don't have the right to not want to be part of a government. and seeing as how all the politically correct civilians in the world believe that they could never get by without an overhead ruler, that means there's absolutely nowhere i can live on this planet without someone telling me what to do. i'm a good person, by birth, so being that good person should in base be reason enough to allow me to not be governed... because government was established for only a few reasons. to protect the little guy at a price, to empower yourself into king status, or to force your beliefs on the next guy or "prothysizing". the people that should have to be governed is the theives and murderers; and the people that should be left alone besides positive changes... all the rest. there's absolutely no way anyone anywhere will ever get me to think that any sort of political agenda is one i have to abide by until i see them pretty much being socialist and still allow me to start my own business. it's pretty much common sense.

i shouldn't have to pay for the resources everyone needs. ........and a lot of other things that i should think change that noone's willing to do out of basic selfishness and greed, or bs agendas, or some pompous attitude that the rest of the world should be like the United States.

let me put it this way, not only did the true reasons for Iraq and the actions at Guantanamo Bay, but also the actions of your everyday police officer ruining my life so he can make a quota... and the enevitable narrowmindedness of a family that grew up in the WW2 and babyboomer governmental and community brainwashing days... *how everyone's become facist lately: stating opinions isn't easy without everyone telling you you're wrong and chastizing you for it* ....has all basically put me over the edge in my convictions about ANY type of control put on my honest and good-natured self. i've made some mistakes in the past, but nothing that wasn't inspired by defensive techniques against ever-closing catagory walls delivered to me by a government trying to inspire fear in everyday decisions. and don't even get me started on dating these days and the corporate agenda.