The Difference Between You and I

[WDRacing]

These are troubled times for our country. I love America like she is my Mother. Without her I would be lost in the dark...

Like any true American I have been questioning the up coming Presidential election. I have walked the line between hope and failure...often wondering what will become of this Country. I watched as one candidate after another dropped out of the race. Some of which I felt would make a great Commander In Chief...but they are but a passing memory at this point.

So I sit in my backyard with my 11 month old son Dylan listening to Pearl Jam live in Italy blasting out of my workshop. Dylan is playing in the sprinkler with one of his rubber soccer balls. One of my Dobermans waits for him to get the ball just out from under the sprinkler so he can take it from him...a game they love to play together. I just smile and sip my cold can of Natural Light...we all make sacrifices these days for the price of gas.

I think back to when I grew up...

My parents were far from rich. My Dad was in the USAF when he met my Mom via letter exchange while my Dad was deployed in support of the Vietnam War. He came home and married her after she graduated nursing school. They moved to a town North of Boston called Chelmsford where I was born shortly there after. My Dad was working for Xerox at this point, no longer in the service and my Mom was working as a nurse for the VA in Bedford. When I was 4 we moved to a different part of the same town, but a much bigger farm house. There I learned how to ride a bike, build a tree fort, camp outside in the woods and had my first GF...

When I went to school I said The Pledge Of Allegiance with my hand over my heart everyday from Kindergarten till Jr High. We sang songs that said we were proud to be American. I watched on live TV when the shuttle blew up and a week later I made jokes about "Needing Another 7 Astronauts"...

I strapped on my first pair of Hockey skates at 4. I grew up skating on the local pond or my buddies garden that his Dad flooded for us every winter. I grew up coming home when the street lights came on. I grew up with a paper route...I grew up earning an allowance. I grew up knowing that you had to work for money. I went to Church every Sunday. I hated it like every other kid my age...but I went...and learned.

When I turned 10 I bought my first album, Van Halen 1984 FTW!!!

I went through school getting average grades. I smoked pot and drank beer all through high school. I was the captain of the Varsity hockey team as a sophomore even though I partied alot and did all I could to have fun. I still knew what was right and what was wrong.

When I graduated I went into the USAF just like my Father and his before him. I went right into into mechanics cause they new I was basically retarded at anything else. So I became a helicopter mechanic in a Special Ops unit. From the jump I knew this was a no BS type of deal. We were deployed all the time, we went places that the news talked about after we returned home...in short I loved it. I felt like I belonged to a family. We worked hard and partied harder...by the time I was 21 I had been to 8 different countries, married/divorced and living in South Korea.

I got married again, eventually moved back to the states where my wife Kate is currently active duty USAF while I am a civilian. We raise my son Dylan here in TX...it sucks here but it's home for now.

So as I sit outside in my backyard and think to myself...what do I want for my Son? How can I make sure my Son isn't left worse off then I was. Because the choices I make will determine his upbringing. Boy does that force you to examine yourself...

This is when I realized a few things about myself..

I love Rock n RollI love fast and loud...the faster and louder the betterI love GodI love One Nation Under GodI love In God We TrustI love Christmas...I love saying MERRY CHRISTMASI love The Pledge of AllegianceI love speaking EnglishI love being AmericanI love owning a gunI love BaseballI love HockeyI love the United States MilitaryI love not caring if you don't like GodI love not caring if Jesus bothers youI love being a White Anglo Saxon Protestant

I hate saying Happy HolidaysI hate that you don't speak EnglishI hate that you want free health careI hate that you're not a citizen of MY countryI hate that you don't like ChristianityI hate that I have to worry about offending youI hate that you bring down the national average in educationI hate that you put tree's ahead of peopleI hate that you handcuff me then complain that I can't do the job your paying me forI hate that you'll take the blanket of freedom I provide, then question the means by which I provide itI hate giving up the things and traditions that belong to me because it "offends you"I hate the notion that you removed the US flag from everywhere I look because it offends youI hate the notion that God offends you

I hate you for trying to change what America is.

I look my Son in the eyes and see myself. I want him to know that it's ok to love America. I want him to be PROUD that he's American. I want him to grow up knowing this country was based on actual Christian morals. I want him to know that it is NOT ok to put another mans pen15 in your mouth. I want him to know that you have to actually work for a living.

I want him to know that giving his life for America is the right thing to do. I want him to know that there are people that will take everything from him and give it away. I want him to know that America has an infection and that infection is the Liberal populace that seeks to subvert America from within. I want him to know that it's not ok to Cow Down to someone because they say your God given rights bother them. I want him him to stand up and say...I'm American and you can't force your cool aide on me. I want him to look at people with sh1t sticking out of there face and say Dad why does that person look like he should be locked up. I want him to know that having your pants pulled 1/2 way down is the most obnoxious thing you can do next to taking a crap in public.

Don't sell your anti Christian beliefs here...you're not welcome.

That is why I have decided to back John McCain. He represents America...not what the left handed liberals would have America become.

If you love America, Vote McCain.

WD

[skylndrftr]

Muslim loving?

Dude come on, people religion has nothign to do with this and it really shows the vapidness with which people are making there voting decisions if they say otherwise.

[AZhitman]

Aside from the Muslim commentary, I concur 100%...

True followers of Islam are good people in my book.

Radical militant fundamentalist wackos (of ANY faith) suck the big one.

[WDRacing]

Was hammered when I finished that...I could probably have left out the Muslim part. But the rest is on par...

For the record though, if you don't like the Muslim religion then it's is definitly and issue worth considering as is any issue that is personal to a voter.

WD

[rn79870]

Brian, when you post lately I can't but help think back to the time you swore you would never post in this forum. You've not only posted here, you've spend a lot of time thinking and debating issues that you probably wouldn't have given a second thought a few months ago. Even the quality of your post have increased as you work to defend your position. That's the good news, the bad news is that you're losing your reputation as a "super grumpy moderator" in favor of one something like ".super not-so-grumpy democrat in training moderator"

If everyone would sit down and work through the issues as you have done, this would be a much better election.

I'll just ask one question. How much of the next .5 trillion dollar debt that your candidate wants to "invest" in Iraq in the next 5 to 1000 years do you want to leave to your son, and any other children you have? You've already got a .5 trillion dollar debt that our generation will never be able to pay.

Okay I too liked your post and I agree with much of it. Until the end that is. Helio should be back pretty soon and he can educate you on the peace loving, warmth of the Muslim nation. They share the same concerns about their family and their future as you do. Muslims aren't the enemy. I'll not take this to a religious level, but disrespecting their God isn't fair or reasonable.

Thanks for opening up Brian. (the "super not-so-grumpy democrat in training moderator")

[S15nS13vert]

I been in this country for 20yrs and i am not a citizen, cuz USA don't think i have enough yrs in this country, but i am as american as any joe, and i didn't speak "inglish" when i got here, so don't be such an close minded idiot...you never know when ur 240 breaks down u might get help from a non english speakin muslim guy
Modified by S15nS13vert at 7:30 AM 7/13/2008

[rn79870]

I don't agree with your comments with respect to immigration Brian. I'm against ILLEGAL immigration because it presents security issues. However, legal immigration is a good thing and benefits all of us. So it takes them a few years to master english. BTW, how well did you do on the citizenship test thread that was posted here a week ago?

[WDRacing]

I didn't take any test...guess I missed that thread.

Regarding religion...

Be it Muslim, Christian or other I am in no way prejudice towards any faith. I fully support every one's right to choose their own religion. But religion IS something one must consider when electing a President. America was founded on Christian beliefs. Those beliefs are my beliefs so it is easier for me to accept a leader with the same beliefs vs one that differs.

One of the main points in my initial post was that I don't like the way our country is going. Part of that is going away from God and removing God from everything, be it schools or the passing of religious holidays. IMO the leader of this country should not be of any other faith other then Christian.

You can disagree and that's fine...but wanting to have a leader with the same religious beliefs as I have is far from being prejudice.

I'm all for Legal Immigration...I'll support it 100%. Illegal Immigration causes many problems that range from education to health care and I will never support open borders. I'm for immediate removal of all non legal immigrants, be they Mexican or Polish it matters not.

WD

[audtatious]

Nice post B. I agree with Bob, nice seeing you try and get your thoughts out.

I believe in quite a few things you posted. While I wish Mac was more leaning "my way" on a few issues, I will take someone who votes 75% of the time what I think is the right way vs one who would vote 40% or less.

This country is not perfect and there have been some bad policies put in that have caused more problems within our infrastructure and our way of life (No, I'm talking about policy over the long term, not just the Bush Admin). The welfare system is failing due to a magnitude of problems. The education system is failing in numerous areas that need to be addressed. Gov't as a whole is spend-crazy with pork spending and adding stupid crap to bills that somewhat make sense. Iraq has been mismanaged BUT is on the right track now. There are some very difficult foreign relation issues that must be addressed in regards to Iran, China, North Korea and other countries. We have economic issues which must be faced and worked through. Do I see Mac as the one to resolve all these issues? Nope, not by himself anyway as it will take the Gov as a whole to work together. I just see him as a better pick than the current Democrat running for office.

[audtatious]

I been in this country for 20yrs and i am not a citizen, cuz USA don't think i have enough yrs in this country, but i am as american as any joe, and i didn't speak "inglish" when i got here, so don't be such an close minded idiot...you never know when ur 240 breaks down u might get help from a non english speakin muslim guy

I don't think anyone is really being closed minded. Looking back, would you now come over here and not learn the english language, thus expecting us to adapt to you instead of the other way around? People come to the US because they feel they have more opportunity here than where they come from. What is the point in flooding this country to make it the same as the country they came from?

[ishkabibble]

So it's OK to discuss religion in the Politics forum now?

[rn79870]

Ish..I'm handling it on a case by case basis. If someone starts bible thumping the post will disappear, but when they mention a political situation that involves a religious overtone, I think we are adult enough not to have our feathers ruffled. Feel free to email me or any admin with a complaint if you think someone has crossed the line, we're here to make this fun and fair for everyone.

BTW, Ish, where have you been?

[WDRacing]

Often times religion simply can't be avoided in some topics and or points of view. But no religion should be attacked and we should make our best attempt to avoid threads based souly on or about religion.

That's why we have Moderators like Bob who can use his even tempered ability to monitor threads and insure things don't become out of hand.

WD

[BigMACKenzie]

WD, you are the man, you know this, I know this. It is a very un-HMFIC thing of you to smash religion and politics together. Seperation of Church and state hoss! I may not agree with what some ppl in the country have to say, but the blanket of freedom you and others who have sacrificed parts of and their whole lives to give them enables them the right to speak freely, includes voicing unpopular opinions. Just remember: once upon a time in this country the smot poking, rock and rolling, natty light drinking and tire smoking Americans were not okay and socially acceptable. But the freedoms we are all so blessed to have in this country allowed those people to live how they saw fit, and rock out so hard. I guess what I am trying to say is that you and your family exist the way you do not just because of the efforts of stout conservative Christians (dont get me wrong, they laid some foundations and pitched in their share too) but because of wacky liberals, free spirited outside the box wacky individuals who contribute to the country with ecological conservatism, the ACLU and other organizations that make this country so freakin' great! it just weirds me out to hear you raise the flag of the man who wants to take so much of that away. I also acknowledge that you have it very rough, being of both worlds, I know how hard it is to tell ppl that gun control is using both hands and that making marijuana illegal is denying sick patients in this country medicine and increasing suffering (at least it is for me, I cant speak for you bc I have never asked your position on the latter issue). I guess what it comes down to is that we need compromise and common sense in this country right now more than ever, and McCain just doesn't seem like the guy who can bring that to us right now. I understand you feel that our way of life that has been so steady in this country is now very much in danger (as do i in some aspects) but McCain just doesnt seem like the negotiator we need right now. sorry for the wall of text, but I would really like to pick your brain about this stuff, bc I have a lot of respect for you.

[ishkabibble]

I don't mind when a thread touches on religion in a civil manner, but I think the original post was a bit much.

BTW, Ish, where have you been?

Playing GTA IV on my new Xbox 360, working on the NX, and planning a Fall road trip up the NW coast. Also, I take a break from this forum every so often so as not to fly off the handle at some of the outrageous things that get posted.

[WDRacing]

I hear ya bro and agree with ya on more then one thing. However, when the wacky left handed fruitcakes want to change things that are already in place that's when I draw the line. When asking for a moment of silence in school and saying the Pledge of Allegiance falls under assault at the same time we're removing the US Flag from public area's and God forbid we have a Jesus in the manger scene displayed somewhere that was on public property. Because we're afraid of hurting someones feelings...what about MY feelings.

I'm ALL for letting people do what they want. Wanna have sex with other dudes...fine, just don't do it in front of me or my kids, wanna smoke pot...puff puff give wanna kneel down and pray to Allah or any other God more power to ya. I'll even stop speaking so you can do so in relative silence and peace.

I'm tired of having to worry about who I offend by simply doing what I have done for the last 33 years...If people would stop being so friggin bothered by what others do life would be awsome.

For instance, I hate when people wear their pants down around their knee's and their boxers or briefs are all hanging out and I can see your *** crack. IMO it shows you're intelligence level...yeah I'm all about freedom of expression but HELLO your *** is hanging out. But I'm not trying to pass a law that says you can't do that. I just think it to myself...

Drink your cool aide and rock on...keep on keepin on...don't worry be happy.

[rn79870]

I don't mind when a thread touches on religion in a civil manner, but I think the original post was a bit much.

Well, what can I say, it was Brian. I love him dearly, and occasionally I agree with him, but there are times I'd like to ring his neck (and I'm sure he feels the same way about me). It wouldn't be the same forum without him.

[WDRacing]

I don't mind when a thread touches on religion in a civil manner, but I think the original post was a bit much.

What part(s) bother you, I'll review/edit them as it wasn't my intent to bother anyone. I was a tad fired up by that point and didn't exercise enough discretion in some area's.

EDIT

I edited out the stuff I felt was in bad taste and apologize for offending anyone it wasn't my intent.

Good Ish?

[fijianrocket]

First off I congratulate the OP for using his right as protected by the constitution of this country. Those are some very interesting points that he has raised. I have recently become a dad (my son is 3 months old) and have been thinking about the future. What will i have to protect him from in the future. I think its so important now more than any other time to think about how the steps we take today will affect our future. everything we do today has a consequence on how tomorrow will turn out.

On a political note :This year is a very difficult year for the American people in terms of selecting a commander in chief. There has been a strong surge to encourage a lot of young people to vote. The democratic nominees youthful exuberance is attracting a lot of the younger voting populationwho through the 4 elections have stayed at home during the elections.

My concern about this is that a lot of the younger voting population will vote along popularity or the energy of the candidate as opposed to what exactly the candidate stands for.

After all the younger voting population is a generation of trends, so whatever is cool, whatever is fashionable is what they go for. Now im not saying that is the case on the forum here but in general it just seems like whoever has the flashier campaign, the loudest music, the brightest lights will get the most votes.

I personally dont care who people vote for but please examine all of the candidates thoroughly before making their choice.

[rn79870]

There have been several threads here where we've tried to look at each candidate and determine where that person would lead the country. The candidates are as different as night and day in many areas, and in others they are relatively similar.

The issues facing the younger generation are different than those facing older Americans. Older Americans might look more to a candidates stand on Social Security, whereas a younger voter may be more interested in the war resolution that Social Security.

[ishkabibble]

Good Ish?

Better. I wasn't offended, but expressing hatred towards someone else's interpretation of God (you both believe in the same god, BTW) doesn't serve much purpose other than being inflammatory.

Kind of ironic that the original post was about having to worry too much about offending people.

[ishkabibble]

First off I congratulate the OP for using his right as protected by the constitution of this country.

If you mean the 1st Amendment, it doesn't apply to a privately owned forum. If I'm misinterpreting your comment, then I apologize in advance.

[BigMACKenzie]

yeah but the private owner of this forum isn't opposed to free speech on the boards here as far as I know anywhoodle, I think I smell what WD is cooking over there: The "need" for sensitivity invading the privacy and interfering with the rights of others. And I can't agree more that it needs to stop. so my next question is this: When did we lose our pride in our tough skin? when did cultural sensitivity for others outweigh our rights and needs as American citizens? When did we make the switch from aiding the guy with one hand to cutting off our own to give to him?

Edit: sorry if this seems like a jack@$$ question to ask, but im real young and dont remember much before this kind of sh1te started going down.

[HashiriyaS14]

Be it Muslim, Christian or other I am in no way prejudice towards any faith. I fully support every one's right to choose their own religion. But religion IS something one must consider when electing a President. America was founded on Christian beliefs. Those beliefs are my beliefs so it is easier for me to accept a leader with the same beliefs vs one that differs.

One of the main points in my initial post was that I don't like the way our country is going. Part of that is going away from God and removing God from everything, be it schools or the passing of religious holidays. IMO the leader of this country should not be of any other faith other then Christian.

A.) Last I checked, both candidates are Christian. NEITHER candidate is deeply religious, at least historically. It's not like McCain and the religious right have been BFF's for the last two decades, they've been on different sides of the fence until he started flirting with them in the interest of winning in November.

B.) The country WAS founded by men of the Christian faith, but you'll notice that they went rather out of their way not to include any theologically-based policy in their founding documents. This is because they intentionally wanted to create a nation that would be able to change with the makeup of it's citizenry.

I really hope that the point of the original post was to somehow insinuate that Obama is a practicing Muslim. At this point, anyone who still believes that would probably lose to my cat in chess.

Get as worked up as you want about the inevitable change of the American lifestyle landscape, vent all you want, but don't believe stupid nonsense that you know isn't true just because it bolsters a world view that makes you feel better.

[WDRacing]

The point was that the left handed Liberals that are siding with Obama will be pandered to more with him as President vs if McCain were to become President. The far left are the people that I argue with, not particularly Obama himself, but a group of people that he will represent more so then McCain. So Obama doesn't have to be Muslim or have any faith for that matter, but he'll pander to those that support him.

If my beliefs aren't yours thats great, if you want everything changed that's also fine. Just don't expect me to roll over and play nice Just because YOU think a certain way doesn't make that right for everyone.

My point was to leave me alone and stop removing things that I feel are important. Unless you think that having pride in America is a bad thing... then by all means Hash...change away bro.

[BigMACKenzie]

I really hope that the point of the original post was to somehow insinuate that Obama is a practicing Muslim. At this point, anyone who still believes that would probably lose to my cat in chess

maybe its just me but I didn't get any kind of vibe like that from the first post. Where as I embrace chaotic change bc thats all I have ever experienced in my life time I think WD is more than a little weary bc he has seen it do both great and terrible things to this country. and this was a really nice discussion, can we try and not run it into the ground with a Obama>McCain thing? I respect everyone here right now opinions but I think if anything we all know that we arent going to come to any agreement on who is the better candidate anytime soon. at least not here. I think we could learn a lot more by separating the two and discussing them individually here than by letting this thread degenerate into another pissing contest.

Edit: and lets not get it twisted, Obama is a Marxist with Marxist ideas, pardon the possible racial slur, but a spade is a gd spade dog. I just feel we could do with a little more socialism in our lives right now.

[ishkabibble]

yeah but the private owner of this forum isn't opposed to free speech on the boards here as far as I know

Riiiiiiight... so I can post anything on NICO?

right back atchya.

[BigMACKenzie]

well i think you should follow the normal free speech rules as the apply to fighting words and hate speech and whatnot, other than that? fire at will good sir

[WDRacing]

Ish...we only sensor you bro

Mac, Ish is correct about "free speech" not applying in almost ALL online forums. It's just not realistic. Some people are mature enough to exercise control where some others would simply verbally assault anyone and everyone that disagreed with them.

WD

[BigMACKenzie]

oh hell no that wouldn't be realistic, why do you think I post here and nowhere else on the internet? I was just speaking in terms of NICO and even as specific as this thread. The 240 gen chat is enough proof of that concept to me.