The Death Wobble

[nissangirl74]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/10 ... d+Blogs%29

OK, I'm gonna admit some of my ignorance here and ask for some help with this one.

Chrysler is blaming some of this "shimmy" issue, The Death Wobble, on improperly inflated tires / aftermarket equipment. They also say that many (other) solid-axle vehicles have this same issue. Really? All I know is that I drove one and hated it. I was constantly having to make steering adjustments, changing lanes felt sketchy, and driving at high speeds was actually scary (yes, this one was lifted / modified).

This isn't exactly my forte, so I'm just looking for some guidance. If you want to make fun of my ignorance, please, feel free.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Yay, the Ford/Firestone fiasco all over again. Yes, let's get politicians involved in matters they don't understand, especially after we let the media misportray the issue itself. Make sure to panic the general public as much as possible. Maybe we can use this as an opportunity to pass yet more intrusive, harmful, and unnecessary laws to regulate the auto industry!

Show of hands: how many death wobble sufferers had illuminated tpms idiot lights when the problem presented? None? That's what I thought.

Morning to see here, folks. Chrysler just built a sub-par vehicle. Been happening for years.

[nissangirl74]

Did this affect the models before 2005?

[MinisterofDOOM]

I have a friend with a Jeep TJ who had the issue. TJs started production in 1997. 2005 seems like a really arbitrary year: JK (current) models started selling in 2007. Nothing major changed for 2005.

[Jesda]

My friend's 93 Grand Cherokee has this problem. Just needs some front end bits replaced to fix it.

[Bubba1]

Y

Chrysler just built a sub-par vehicle, serviced by sub-par dealers. Been happening for years.

FTFY. true. I had a serious wheel wobble appear 3 times in 3 years on our 300M which led to my abandoning the brand altogether. The first time was a badly unbalanced wheel from the factory. Second was a defective steering rack (at 10,000 miles). 3 rd time was more of pulse, but it was defective power steering pump (at 30,000 miles).

[Ron Burgundy]

Woah!!

The 'Death Wobble' has been (and still is) a problem on the R50 model Pathfinder. There's about 100+ threads over on the Pathfinder/QX4 forum about it. I thought we coined that term...

Anyway, at least for the Pathfinder the cause is worn lower control arm bushings. At high speeds, the vehicle will sway from side to side. It stops when you let off the accelerator, but scary none the less.

[TurboSauce]

The excuse I found most common for the wrangler dw, is that there isn't much room (none at all actually) when it comes to to the balance of the steering rack, suspension components, transfer cases, driveshafts, as well as owners adding larger tires and not getting a proper alignment done to the vehicle, as well as adding lift kits that throw off the balance as well. The death wobble is NOTHING new. It's very very detailed with causes and fixes littered all over google, I've read that almost every wrangler thats been heavily modded has experienced it, as well as many owners loosing their belt loops to the door latch on the body. But Something as simple as tieing a sock to the driveshaft can cause death wobble. So, I do guess it is an engineering flaw, but I don't think there has ever been a vehicle built without any flaws.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah it sounds like something is loose. I bet it could be fixed with an out-of-spec alignment that pre-loads your bushings, but chews through tires.

[OriginalWheelman]

Any solid front axle dual leaf spring set up is going to act like that. Add bigger tires, it gets worse. Sway bars help, but don't solve the problem. What do you expect when you build a vehicle and send it down the road with some idiot behind the wheel doing 75- 80, on a suspension that was invented for carriages in the 1700s.

[TurboSauce]

Wraglers have coil suspension. They changed the leaf springs for the tj model year.

[OriginalWheelman]

The sounds like it would be even more prone to horizontal deflection than leaf springs...

[IanS]

Any solid front axle dual leaf spring set up is going to act like that. Add bigger tires, it gets worse. Sway bars help, but don't solve the problem. What do you expect when you build a vehicle and send it down the road with some idiot behind the wheel doing 75- 80, on a suspension that was invented for carriages in the 1700s.

Leaf springs have nothing to do with it.

It is almost entirely a solid front axle problem, leaf and coil.

The wobble that many people complain about, is just shaking caused by one thing or another. That is NOT the death wobble. Its just shaking from unbalanced tires, or loose parts or what have you. Every now and again I get people complaining of what they call "death wobble". 9 times out of 10 a test drive with the customer will reveal just a shake not nearly bad enough to warrant such a name.

The death wobble is so called, because when it happens while driving on the highway, it makes you feel as if you are going to die.

Wrangles are prone to it, in part because of their extremely short wheel base. They are inherently unstable because of it. It also happens on older rams, 3/4+ Ford F series, and anything else with a solid front axle. Bigger tires, poor quality tires, loose parts, or excessive speeds can all accentuate it.

For the few of us who have experienced a true "death wobble", then you should know. It is so called for a reason.

Often spurred by a bump in the road, or an asphalt wave, the shaking is so violent that it can be hard to maintain hold on the steering wheel. I have had vehicles that, completely outside of my control weaved through 3 lanes of traffic. No matter how tightly I gripped the steering wheel.

I have never experienced it on any vehicle that was in good repair, had properly sized and non chineese tires.

As much as I hate Chrysler, I don't feel that this is a Chrysler problem. If a person buys a car, and drives it off a cliff on purpose, is it the manufacturers fault that the car couldn't fly?

[numbnuts240]

is it the manufacturers fault that the car couldn't fly?

not for another 2 1/2 years.

[audtatious]

is it the manufacturers fault that the car couldn't fly?

not for another 2 1/2 years.

Congress is working on that mandate

[IanS]

not for another 2 1/2 years.

Congress is working on that mandate

Touche.

[nissangirl74]

Thanks for the feedback guys. This just further solidifies my decision to never own a Jeep.

[themadscientist]

Step 1. Sell Jeep
Step 2. Do not buy another Jeep
Step 3. Repeat step 2 as necessary

[TurboSauce]

Thanks for the feedback guys. This just further solidifies my decision to never own a Jeep.

Idk, even knowing this I still want one, I just cant get over the small size as well as its small wheelbase and awesome turning radius, and the ability to get over almost everything.
I view it like. 300zx it's fun while everything is in working order, but if something breaks or needs to be replaced nit can become a real pita.

And then they just look good to me.

I guess it's personal.

[OriginalWheelman]

Yeah but Wranglers have an interesting conundrum. The 4 cyl sucks cause it's so slow and gutless, the 4.0L ones have so much torque they fling that little thing around so hard it feels like you're driving a cardboard box with an engine. Even brand new ones flex when you get on it. I love the looks and i had a blast offroading with them, but on the street, they can be down right scary.

[TurboSauce]

Yeah that 4.0. Does not s*** around. My mom Dailys a Cherokee with the 4.0 and that pulls like a raging bull. smokes tires pretty well.
Even in the Cherokee it has balls.
but with the wrangler large tires really eat power though.

[Bubba1]

Thanks for the feedback guys. This just further solidifies my decision to never own a Jeep.

Bex: Jeeps wranglers are really not the worst cars ever made, (though the 4 cyl is pretty sad) Wranglers just not meant to be DD's, which unfortunately is what most people that buy them do. If your weekends include a lot of off-roading, they can be quite fun to have. If you're not into off-roading, there are better AWD choices out there.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The other problem is that if you ARE into offroading, there are better 4wd choices, too. Like the Xterra.

I don't dislike wranglers...in fact I rather like the Unlimited. But I'd only own one as a third or fourth vehicle. And I'd still rather have an Xterra.

My friend's TJ is a 4-cylinder, and it's also his wife's DD. The thing is terrible for it: no power AND no fuel economy. No practicality. It gets broken into all the time due to the cloth top. It drives like crap on paved roads. It's noisy and uncomfortable, and the sound system is garbage. And the furthest off-road it has ever gone was over a curb.

[OriginalWheelman]

The other problem is that if you ARE into offroading, there are better 4wd choices, too. Like the Xterra.

I don't dislike wranglers...in fact I rather like the Unlimited. But I'd only own one as a third or fourth vehicle. And I'd still rather have an Xterra.

My friend's TJ is a 4-cylinder, and it's also his wife's DD. The thing is terrible for it: no power AND no fuel economy. No practicality. It gets broken into all the time due to the cloth top. It drives like crap on paved roads. It's noisy and uncomfortable, and the sound system is garbage. And the furthest off-road it has ever gone was over a curb.

I'm cause my sister wants one, and I know that would be her story to a t.

[Mr1der]

it's a lot more prevalent on lifted vehicles too.

As anyone who's messed with altering suspension ride height, it has a tendency to be much harder on the bushings.

[nissangirl74]

**UPDATE** Chrysler has responded.

Cliff notes: it appears that Chrysler has issued Technical Service Bulletin 19-002-12 to address the problem. The bulletin has been distributed to dealers and to a range of Jeep-related websites, and it has also been forwarded to NHTSA. Representatives Eshoo and Waxman both posted statements thanking Chrysler for its actions.

The bulletin doesn't offer specific fixes, because the source of the "Death Wobble" can vary. However, it does provide a list of things that owners should look for, including lift kits, inadequate tire pressure, and wear on the steering damper, tie rods, and ball joints.

So, while this won't solve the problem, it should provide more consistent guidance for dealers and owners looking for the cause of the problem.


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[Mr1der]

Seems the steering damper is the biggie a lot of times.

[coopab]

The death wobble is so called, because when it happens while driving on the highway, it makes you feel as if you are going to die.

Wrangles are prone to it, in part because of their extremely short wheel base. They are inherently unstable because of it. It also happens on older rams, 3/4+ Ford F series, and anything else with a solid front axle. Bigger tires, poor quality tires, loose parts, or excessive speeds can all accentuate it.

For the few of us who have experienced a true "death wobble", then you should know. It is so called for a reason.

Snipped a bit of technical info but wanted to share MY experience with a true death wobble which is way more than vibration, pulsing like you get with a warped disk rotor, out of balance tire, etc. Where I work we've got a beat up 1996 Dodge 3/4T diesel pickup. A bump, wave in the road, small pothole, or almost anything could set that bugger off. Once started there's some sort of harmonic imbalance that gets worse and all you can do is hold on for dear life and let the vehicle slow down until the wobble goes away, (about the time the truck coasts to a halt in the breakdown lane) My most memorable experience was while merging from I190 onto Rte 2 in northern Mass. a few years back. 18 wheeler trying to use just about the same piece of roadway as me, not knowing that I couldn't accelerate (or the death wobble would get even WORSE, and stepping on the brakes might have left me stranded in the middle of the merge. (and it didn't really stop the death wobble) So I managed to slow down enough to stay out of the truckers grill and get off the road. The 96 Dodge is still on the road and the wobble seems to be in hiding, but it's done THAT before. Fortunately I rarely have to drive the beast anymore.